US Politics

[do or die]

Well, this administration has already compiled an impressive record.....of mis-truths, serial lying, deflections, and Trumped up facts......in a single month.

[The Unknown Poster]

6 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I guess my question is - is anything you've written above actually true? 

Unless Putin himself came to your house and told you he has improper/unethical/illegal contact with Trump or his people, you will always say "meh, nothing to see here" or "meh, the Dems/Hilary are worse".  So there really is no point in discussing it because you dont want to believe it.  Worse, you dont even want it investigates by a third party to see if it WAS legal or illegal.

There is more than enough smoke here to indicate a fire that is in need of investigation.  Trump has lied repeatedly about Russia.  Flynn resigned over it.  And Sessions has been caught lying about it too.  Why do they all lie?  The intelligence community seems pretty convinced Russia hacked with the intent of swaying the election.  Isnt that worth investigating?

"Meh, I dont know its true so let's assume its not and move on" - that doesnt fly.

[The Unknown Poster]

11 minutes ago, johnzo said:

There were a couple exchanges re: Russia during Sessions' confirmation hearings.

FRANKEN: If there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?

SESSIONS: Senator Franken, I’m not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it.

Note how Sessions doesn't even answer Franken's question, he just straight-out jumps into a denial that he personally had communications with the Russians. There's some bad optics!

And thats a great question by Franken.  Its a police thing.  "If someone WAS guilty of this crime, what should happen to them".  If the response is "throw the book at them" then you can use that later.  if the response is "they were probably mistaken and deserve a second chance", then your suspicions are raised.  Sessions knows...he's smart.  He avoided the question.  But he hung himself.

He will probably end up resigning too.  But if he doesnt, when enough Republicans finally want an impartial investigation, Sessions has made it much tougher for the admin to use him or his deputies in that role.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[kelownabomberfan]

I just want to know the truth.  There's been so much lying done by both sides, I'm curious as to what is the actual truth.  So just calling each other names doesn't really help the situation.  It seems to me that the DNC is reeling right now and looking for anything to grab on to to try and turn the tide and this Russian thing just keeps coming back.  Did Sessions lie about meeting a Russian?  If he did, then yes, he should resign, as no one should lie under oath.  It's no different than saying that you did not have sexual relations with a certain woman, and then your DNA is found on her dress.  Anyway, carry on with the faint hope that somehow this Russian thing is actually a thing.  I will continue to wait for someone to produce a smoking gun that proves a) that Session definitely lied and b ) that his meeting was actually nefarious in any way.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I just want to know the truth.  There's been so much lying done by both sides, I'm curious as to what is the actual truth.  So just calling each other names doesn't really help the situation.  It seems to me that the DNC is reeling right now and looking for anything to grab on to to try and turn the tide and this Russian thing just keeps coming back.  Did Sessions lie about meeting a Russian?  If he did, then yes, he should resign, as no one should lie under oath.  It's no different than saying that you did not have sexual relations with a certain woman, and then your DNA is found on her dress.  Anyway, carry on with the faint hope that somehow this Russian thing is actually a thing.  I will continue to wait for someone to produce a smoking gun that proves a) that Session definitely lied and b ) that his meeting was actually nefarious in any way.

There are people on both sides that can't separate the reality from the party or political perspective they support. 

Great example too.  They went after Clinton for lying about getting a hummer.  But they dont want to go after members of the Trump admin (including the president) who are repeatedly caught lying about Russian ties.  So, oral sex = bad.  Conspiring with an enemy of the nation in an attempt to undermine an election = not bad.  Just so we're clear.

[The Unknown Poster]

CNN

Kislyak is considered by US intelligence to be one of Russia's top spies and spy-recruiters in Washington, according to current and former senior US government officials.

According to the Justice Department, Sessions met with Kislyak in July on the sidelines of the Republican convention, and in September in his office when Sessions was a member of the Senate Armed Services committee. Sessions, then the junior senator from Alabama, was an early Trump backer and regular surrogate for him as a candidate.

Nope, nothing even to look at here.  Not even worth discussing.

[johnzo]

Sessions has recused himself from any DoJ Trump campaign / Russia investigations.

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, johnzo said:

Sessions has recused himself from any DoJ Trump campaign / Russia investigations.

Desperate attempt to put a lid on it.  That wont be enough.  They need a special prosecutor and/or select committee to investigate.  Sessions recusal just means one of his underlings would be involved.  Not good enough.

Sessions wanted Lynch to recuse herself and appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Hilary's use of a server.  So by his standards, there should be a special prosecutor.

[do or die]

Sessions had no choice.    The spectacle of Sessions investigating Sessions.....would not help the already shady optics, round this whole Russian thing....

 

As I pointed out above.....there are lot of people connected with Trump, politically and otherwise....with some sort or form of back door connections to the Putin "administration"  Given the politically sensitive nature of the people and titles involved  (Campaign Manager, US Attorney General, and National Security advisor, etc ) as well as the time frame of the various conversations - some answers are clearly needed......soon.

 

 

[johnzo]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I just want to know the truth.  There's been so much lying done by both sides, I'm curious as to what is the actual truth.  So just calling each other names doesn't really help the situation.

Me too.  It's not outside the realm of possibility that this is some deep weird conspiracy intended to dismantle the Trump administration.   There's no public smoking-gun evidence. Everything is a leak.

But ... Manafort resigns.  Flynn walks the plank.  Sessions runs away from the investigation.  Trump is a guy who prizes loyalty, why are all his guys being cast aside like that?  Why are the Senate, the House, and the FBI all investigating?  What's under all that smoke?  Is it a burning dumpster full of tires or just a guy who doesn't know how to cook his steak?

Where I stand is that these claims need to investigated fully and fairly by someone who isn't a partisan hack, if such a unicorn exists.  And in past administrations, the bar for investigating the administration and/or its officials, was not terribly high, so that doesn't seem like a lot to ask.

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

It seems to me that the DNC is reeling right now and looking for anything to grab on to to try and turn the tide and this Russian thing just keeps coming back.

This is the standard partisan hack response to this stuff.  "It's just the DNC causing trouble."  Respectfully, this is a pretty dumb thing to say.

Remember that the DNC are the people who can't keep their email secure and who lost to a complete buffoon ... and yet somehow they are masterminding a giant conspiracy aimed at taking down an entire administration. Even more strangely, that administration is playing along by firing and dismissing their targets, instead of standing by them.

Stranger yet: prominent repubs like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Jason Chaffetz, Darrell Issa, Marco Rubio, and the Bush 43 White House counsel have all called for an independent prosecutor to get to the bottom of this Russia stuff. These people are not quite the kind of people who can be relied upon to stand beside the DNC during its troubled times.  Chaffetz was the November Surprise email guy, remember? Furthermore, any kind of stress they put on the Trump administration endangers the passage of the GOP tax and healthcare agenda.

I suppose it's possible that these republicans have been replaced with convincingly human drone units ... they could be piloted from the DNC helicarrier, or from Harry Reid's secret desert fortress....

Edited March 2, 2017 by johnzo

[johnzo]

Also, this gem from the recusal press conference:

Quote

 

REPORTER: THE WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY AND THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF SAID YOU SHOULD NOT RECUSE YOURSELF FROM THESE INVESTIGATIONS.
ATTY. GEN. SESSIONS: I DID SHARE WITH WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL AND STAFF THAT I INTENDED TO RECUSE MYSELF THIS AFTERNOON. I FEEL LIKE, THEY DO NOT KNOW THE RULES, THE ETHICS RULES.

 

heh.

[The Unknown Poster]

Its not just Democrats either.  Its Republicans breaking with the admin so anyone pushing the "its just Dems" is out to lunch and has their head in the sand.

Sessions and Flynn are both in trouble over communications with a Russian who the US intelligence committee considers a spy and recruiter.  Trump has repeatedly lied about his relationships with Russia or at best, severely downplayed.  The Trump Dossier has elements already proven to be true creating the sense that the "crazy" idea that Trump could be compromised already or be potentially compromised in the future as something that is not completely far fetched.

And the fact the intelligence community believes Russia interfered with the election amidst these allegations of communication with Trump campaign, it must be fully investigated.  If Trump or his people had nothing to do with it and no knowledge of it, so be it.  That doesnt preclude Russia from doing it.  But if they DID know about it and if there was any promises or favors or whatever, then its within reasonable thought that it could bring Trump down.  And should, if proven true.

[do or die]

The assertions that Mr. Kislyak works for our security apparatus, or is some sort of spy, is patently absurd, and simply anti-Russian propaganda.

Sincerely,

Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin

Former Head, KGB

 

[Wideleft]

If you have no time for long form journalism, you will forever be asking questions and discounting news reports as fake news if they don't fit your narrative.  This article will take a minimum of 30 minutes to read and possibly more to comprehend.  It is an informative and balanced essay on the Trump/Russia problem.  http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/trump-putin-and-the-new-cold-war

 

[do or die]

The New Yorker?

Bah, Leftist effete rag, read by pinkos, immigrants, swamp dwellers, and Hollywood actors.......

 

Just kidding - a very sage and stylish publication, that I have been reading for years.    Pretty good article.

 

 

[kelownabomberfan]

41 minutes ago, johnzo said:

 

This is the standard partisan hack response to this stuff.  "It's just the DNC causing trouble."  Respectfully, this is a pretty dumb thing to say.

 

Respectfully, I think the Democrats are the ones being dumb.  Now a Democrat senator, one of Sessions biggest detractors, has been caught full out lying.  The truth is, politicians in Washington meet with foreign diplomats all the time.

Sessions just made two mistakes - one he didn't disclose his contact in his hearings, and two, he shouldn't be a Republican.

Edited March 2, 2017 by kelownabomberfan

[johnzo]

52 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

The truth is, politicians in Washington meet with foreign diplomats all the time.

Then why have prominent Republicans resigned from the Trump campaign and the Trump administration in the wake of those meetings?  Why did Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort lie about receiving $12MM from Putin's Ukrainian stooge? Why did Flynn tell different stories about his Russian meetings all over town, and then why didn't Trump stand by Manafort and Flynn when the mean ol' Democrats (who control precisely zero percent of the US government) called for their heads? Why did Sessions recuse himself when his boss publicly expressed full confidence in him? These are all proud, powerful men operating close to the apex of power in the USA, and they are being bullied about innocuous meetings, which seems odd.

And most notably, why are other Republicans calling for investigations and special prosecutors?

Alas, a Claire McCaskill twitter boner doesn't magic all that smoke away.

Edited March 2, 2017 by johnzo

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Then why have prominent Republicans resigned from the Trump campaign and the Trump administration in the wake of those meetings?  Why did Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort lie about receiving money from Putin's Ukrainian stooge? Why did Flynn tell different stories about his Russian meetings all over town, and then why didn't Trump stand by these two when the hammer fell?  Why did Trump let Sessions recuse himself?  Why are the Republicans letting themselves be bullied about innocuous meetings?

Because the Democrats? 

[johnzo]

(oh, and meanwhile, the proposed Trump EPA budget cuts Great Lakes restoration funds from $300MM to $10MM. As someone who grew up in Thunder Bay, this makes me pretty personally mad, though being at the upper end of the watershed, we won't feel it as bad there as they will down east.  Anyone old enough to remember what Lake Ontario looked like in the seventies?  Remember that scene in Paddle to the Sea where the little canoe guy floats past all the giant outflow pipes? That was when Lake Ontario was North America's septic pond.)

[The Unknown Poster]

51 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Respectfully, I think the Democrats are the ones being dumb.  Now a Democrat senator, one of Sessions biggest detractors, has been caught full out lying.  The truth is, politicians in Washington meet with foreign diplomats all the time.

Sessions just made two mistakes - one he didn't disclose his contact in his hearings, and two, he shouldn't be a Republican.

"Yeah but what about the dems" is the best defence to the bad acts of the Republicans. At least we can quickly dismiss everything that follows. 

[kelownabomberfan]

45 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Then why have prominent Republicans resigned from the Trump campaign and the Trump administration in the wake of those meetings?  Why did Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort lie about receiving $12MM from Putin's Ukrainian stooge? Why did Flynn tell different stories about his Russian meetings all over town, and then why didn't Trump stand by Manafort and Flynn when the mean ol' Democrats (who control precisely zero percent of the US government) called for their heads? Why did Sessions recuse himself when his boss publicly expressed full confidence in him? These are all proud, powerful men operating close to the apex of power in the USA, and they are being bullied about innocuous meetings, which seems odd.

And most notably, why are other Republicans calling for investigations and special prosecutors?

Alas, a Claire McCaskill twitter boner doesn't magic all that smoke away.

I wouldn't call Claire McCaskill's admissions a "Twitter Boner".  I'd call it exposing the actual truth of the situation.  And demonstrating how desperate the Democrats are to make an issue here, out of what could be something, or what could also be nothing.

I get the whole Flynn thing and its good that he resigned.  I can't wait for whatever the next thing is that the Dems latch on to after this Russian stuff finally goes away (and it may take Sessions resigning to do that.  Let's face it, lots of people on both sides didn't want to see him as AG).

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I wouldn't call Claire McCaskill's admissions a "Twitter Boner".  I'd call it exposing the actual truth of the situation. 

Ok, please... tell me what this actual truth is.

[johnzo]

Wow. And now CNN is reporting that Trump Campaign national security advisor J.D. Gordon, plus Sessions and several other Trump people, met with the Russian ambassador during the GOP national convention.  Shortly afterwards, Gordon and others, acting on Trump's instructions, fought successfully to soften pro-Ukraine anti-Russian language in the Republican platform.

These were the only changes that Trump's people requested in the Republican platform.

(Compare that to the Democratic platform, which the Clinton and Sanders people wrestled over for weeks.)

On top of that -- last year, during the campaign, Paul Manafort expressly denied that the Trump campaign was responsible for the change in the GOP Ukraine policy. And the White House has strenuously denied that the campaign had any Russian contacts.

Why can't they keep their story straight?

(the Gordon reporting is based on a conversation with Gordon himself, not on a leak from within the government, which is why I find this super noteworthy.  This story is moving out of the shadow realm of leaks and into the stage lights of the news networks.)

Edited March 3, 2017 by johnzo

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I wouldn't call Claire McCaskill's admissions a "Twitter Boner".  I'd call it exposing the actual truth of the situation.  And demonstrating how desperate the Democrats are to make an issue here, out of what could be something, or what could also be nothing.

I get the whole Flynn thing and its good that he resigned.  I can't wait for whatever the next thing is that the Dems latch on to after this Russian stuff finally goes away (and it may take Sessions resigning to do that.  Let's face it, lots of people on both sides didn't want to see him as AG).

Just to briefly jump in on this from a non-political point of view but to use the current U.S.A political landscape as an example, the statement I bolded from part of your sentence is being questioned from every angle imaginable and unimaginable. It would seem, regardless of issue and at times apparent straightforwardness, no one in the U.S.A political environment is safe in saying this about anything about anyone without being challenged, befuddled or countered. Imho, I don't think I'm exaggerating here. I don't know about anyone else but I find it very very exhausting, and at times very very bizarre like I feel I may not be seeing things that some other people are seeing. That's why I love saying this at times: Go Jets Bombers Go.