US Politics

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You're not sure of the difference between multiple intelligence agencies stating that Russia meddled in the election and contradictory reports of Syrian chemical weapons use?

I haven't heard any contrary reports from anyone outside of Russia.  Have you?

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, Atomic said:

I haven't heard any contrary reports from anyone outside of Russia.  Have you?

On the Chemical weapons?  Yes.  I cant recall off the top of my head but Ill try to take a look.  The issue was that Syrian rebels had previously used the same chemical weapon in the past and that supposedly the government of Syria had given up their chemical arsenal.

Im in the "likely" category as far whether it really was the government and not the rebels.  Either way, Syria is a mess.  The thing to me is, 1) does the US want to get into it 2) where is the rest of the world 3) if you are banning refugees, how can you drop some bombs and claim you care about the children?

Syria sucks.  But the US should not go there.  They already support the rebels who also suck.  You've got ISIS and other terror groups operating there.  You have government and rebels doing horrible things.  You've got Russia, Turkey, Iran etc as proxies there.  Its a mess.

Would love to save all the children.  Syria cant be saved.  Take in as many refugees as you can and help them get a new start.  Save generations of people who's only crime was being born in a horrible ******* place.  But go to war there?  Why?  To what end?

[Atomic]

My position would be: take in no refugees, do not bomb Syria.  Let them fight it out, winner takes all.  Not our problem.

Ten million refugees out there, doesn't make a difference if we take in 10,000, that just leaves the other 9,990,000 to deal with the consequences.  And we sure as hell aren't taking in all ten million.  So let them figure it out themselves.

[do or die]

Donald Trump in-depth policy making........ while getting out of bed in the morning:

If happy:   Play golf

If concerned:  Tweet something or other

If cranky:  Launch missiles at somebody, somewhere

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by do or die

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, Atomic said:

Well we were told that we don't need to see the investigation into Russia hacking the election, and everyone was okay with just believing the conclusions.  But this is different, because we don't like the conclusions?

1. I didn't tell you that. I don't know if Russia hacked the US election. I don't know if Trump conspired with the Russians to subvert American election process. I would not be surprised in the least if he did.

2. There is an investigation going on, amongst other things, of Russian hacking, in fact two of them. You can't see it, cause it's ongoing. When it's done, the investigators will do a report, which will tell you what they concluded.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Mark F

[The Unknown Poster]

Ummmm

[JCon]

21 hours ago, Atomic said:

My position would be: take in no refugees, do not bomb Syria.  Let them fight it out, winner takes all.  Not our problem.

Ten million refugees out there, doesn't make a difference if we take in 10,000, that just leaves the other 9,990,000 to deal with the consequences.  And we sure as hell aren't taking in all ten million.  So let them figure it out themselves.

There are ten million problems. We can help solve 10,000 problems. Solving 10,000 problems sound like a pretty good deal to me.

[The Unknown Poster]

Spicer wishes he could crawl away:

How about just say it was a terrible comparison and you apologize. 

"holocaust centres". 

Edited April 11, 2017 by The Unknown Poster

[The Unknown Poster]

17 minutes ago, JCon said:

There are ten million problems. We can help solve 10,000 problems. Solving 10,000 problems sound like a pretty good deal to me.

Yes. Plus I think people blame citizens of these nations for being born there. We're lucky. We were born here or our parents immigrated here. At some point in our history all our grandparents etc immigrated here. We enjoy a better life because of it. 

If we can help 10,000 people?  Go for it. Why do we deserve it and they don't?

[The Unknown Poster]

Spicer could be in trouble. He was always going to end poorly but this is sooner than most probably thought. 

 

[Atomic]

25 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Yes. Plus I think people blame citizens of these nations for being born there. We're lucky. We were born here or our parents immigrated here. At some point in our history all our grandparents etc immigrated here. We enjoy a better life because of it. 

If we can help 10,000 people?  Go for it. Why do we deserve it and they don't?

Yeah well life isn't fair.

[kelownabomberfan]

28 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Spicer could be in trouble. He was always going to end poorly but this is sooner than most probably thought. 

It is always stupid for anyone to invoke Hitler in any context, but it's clear what Spicer was saying, he's not denying the Holocaust, he's saying that the Germans didn't use chemical weapons against the Allies in battle in World War 2.  This kind of over-reaction to a comment is why people are just plain tuning out of the whole Trump thing.  Too much nonsense and over-reaction to every...single...thing.

Edited April 11, 2017 by kelownabomberfan

[The Unknown Poster]

18 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

It is always stupid for anyone to invoke Hitler in any context, but it's clear what Spicer was saying, he's not denying the Holocaust, he's saying that the Germans didn't use chemical weapons against the Allies in battle in World War 2.  This kind of over-reaction to a comment is why people are just plain tuning out of the whole Trump thing.  Too much nonsense and over-reaction to every...single...thing.

That's a silly way of defending Spicer.  He wasnt referring to "allies".  He was referring to "his own people".  And ofcourse Hitler did.  Spicer tried to clarify that he meant Hitler didnt drop bombs of chemicals, that he used them in the "holocaust centres".

Over-reaction?  Come on.  This is the Press Secretary.  

[StevetheClub]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

That's a silly way of defending Spicer.  He wasnt referring to "allies".  He was referring to "his own people".  And ofcourse Hitler did.  Spicer tried to clarify that he meant Hitler didnt drop bombs of chemicals, that he used them in the "holocaust centres".

Over-reaction?  Come on.  This is the Press Secretary.  

Calling him an Holocaust denier is an over-reaction. It's clear that's not the case.

Calling him out on a very, very poor choice of words. That makes more sense.

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, StevetheClub said:

Calling him an Holocaust denier is an over-reaction. It's clear that's not the case.

Calling him out on a very, very poor choice of words. That makes more sense.

I didnt call him a denier but dismissing his choice of words is just too much right wing defense.  And it rises a lot higher than a poor choice of words since he made it worse with his, presumably more thoughtful, clarification. 

[HardCoreBlue]

3 minutes ago, StevetheClub said:

Calling him an Holocaust denier is an over-reaction. It's clear that's not the case.

Calling him out on a very, very poor choice of words. That makes more sense.

And to unpack that even more, there is a difference between using a poor choice of words to articulate something you do indeed understand versus using a poor choice of words to articulate something you don't understand.

[The Unknown Poster]

Assuming he prepared his original remarks ahead of time and probably felt really clever about the Hitler comparison, Spicer is clearly in over his head with this gig.  Time to move on.  he can get rich writing a book about the first 100 days.

[StevetheClub]

16 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I didnt call him a denier but dismissing his choice of words is just too much right wing defense.  And it rises a lot higher than a poor choice of words since he made it worse with his, presumably more thoughtful, clarification. 

You quoted a response that said he should resign for denying the Holocaust and then called a defence of him not being a Holocaust-denier silly, so I think it's reasonable to think that you thought he was denying the Holocaust.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a  pretty massive gaffe (any implications that I was minimizing his choice of words was unintentional), I just don't think it's helpful - in fact it's counterproductive and unneccesary - to go to such extremes when criticizing him.

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, StevetheClub said:

You quoted a response that said he should resign for denying the Holocaust and then called a defence of him not being a Holocaust-denier silly, so I think it's reasonable to think that you thought he was denying the Holocaust.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a  pretty massive gaffe (any implications that I was minimizing his choice of words was unintentional), I just don't think it's helpful - in fact it's counterproductive and unneccesary - to go to such extremes when criticizing him.

I responded to a quote of me that didnt include the statement in the tweet.  And I called "silly" the defense of of Spicer by referring to the outrage as "nonsense" and "over-reaction". 

Personally I wouldnt use the words "Holocaust denier" because I doubt Spicer is.  Im also not Jewish and certainly these words can impact them differently.  However, he did deny Hitler used chemical weapons.  Which is in fact a denial of the holocaust.  THAT aspect was a terrible mis-step by Spicer as I doubt he is a denier.  It was his later clarification where he admitted that Hitler did use chemical weapons...in the "Holocaust centres". 

Anyway, point taken.  I disagree with the far extreme criticism and I disagree with the brushing off.  If Spicer was canned over this, it wouldnt surprise me.  If he's not, it wouldnt surprise me either.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 minute ago, StevetheClub said:

You quoted a response that said he should resign for denying the Holocaust and then called a defence of him not being a Holocaust-denier silly, so I think it's reasonable to think that you thought he was denying the Holocaust.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a  pretty massive gaffe (any implications that I was minimizing his choice of words was unintentional), I just don't think it's helpful - in fact it's counterproductive and unneccesary - to go to such extremes when criticizing him.

I think for a lot of people, it's not calling for his head on one particular gaffe or accusing him of something he isn't, it's calling for his head on his constant trending of massive gaffes. Once a mistake twice a trend sort of thing. In the work and personal world, a lot of us are judged that way.

[do or die]

Being way too hard on Spicer.    Imagine if you had to step into the glare of the WH media and cough up realms of bafflegab, while misdirecting and spinning wildly in ever increasing circles, nightly.....all without the aid of gin.

Tough gig.

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by do or die

[Mark F]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Ummmm

This is amazing. But unsurprising. When the Americans want to bomb and invade a country,  they always go for the Hitler comparison. Sadaam was hitler, gadaffi was hitler; Probably some leader of Iran is probably called Hitler; How can so and so not be bombed? He's as bad as Hitler.

Bascically this dolt Spicer just went a step farther and said, assad is worse than hitler.

His biggest problem is that he really is bad at bafflegab. It's not easy, and he's just not smart enough to do it properly.

Wouldn't surprise me to learn that he was a holocaust denier, nor would it surprise me to learn that  he has never heard of the holocaust. Or anything in between.

A pack of dimwits.

also

Quote

On the Drudge Report, Obama’s picture was lumped in with images of Hitler and Soviet dictator Josef Stalin next to a story about Vice President Biden’s suggestion that Obama will target guns through an executive order. The Hitler comparisons have actually been going on since Obama’s administration began four years ago:

also, Bush was called Hitler.

If America was a person, the non American adults would be confiscating the nukes.

Edited April 11, 2017 by Mark F

[do or die]

Spicer simply reflects the ongoing "chaos" of the Trump- Bannon- Kushner et al. administration.   They probably use a etch-a-sketch, at this point.

[The Unknown Poster]

Getting louder

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Damage control