pigseye Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: If the NRA ever thinks critical mass against guns in general is on the horizon, then they will support an assault weapons ban. If the Dems ever get control of Congress and the White House they should try to repeal the 2nd amendment altogether since its outdated and completely misunderstood by the general public anyway. The pushback would be enormous...and then would be forgotten. Interesting, prohibition was repealed, so why not?
JCon Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, johnzo said: I've seen a couple seismic cultural shifts in my time in the USA -- with gay marriage and marijuana legalization. Once the opinion polls flipped like this, the avalanche wasn't far behind. Those two things didn't have a massive industry lobbying group fighting them back , though. Gun re-regulation might be more like the tobacco wars. That was such a weird cultural moment, back when I was in college -- after a lifetime of being around indoor smokers, suddenly people were excusing themselves from parties and game nights to go outside and have a smoke. It was amazing how fast it flipped, somewhere around 1992... I'm not sure I agree. The religious right carries a whole lot of weight and lobbying power. They also have weekly access to speak directly to their constituents. The alcohol lobby is quite wealthy as well. They certainly leveraged that weight to suppress the legalization and/or decriminalization of marijuana. johnzo 1
The Unknown Poster Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, pigseye said: Interesting, prohibition was repealed, so why not? Prohibition wasnt a cultural thing, was "new", was a denial of rights rather then an actual right and it was believed the repeal would help law enforcement since prohibition wasnt working anyway. It was very unpopular. The NRA has helped make guns a cultural right that many Americans who are not gun owners feel is somehow a God-given right. People debate the amendment but realistically, I think it is pretty clearly not relevant today.
do or die Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 For all the talk of NRA money.....it is their ability to mobilize a certain voting block, that allows them to hold sway over legislators in the House and Senate. Give them credit - they have instilled quite the Pavlovian reflex, among their supporters. Any minute piece of control legislature on guns..... is immediately translated via the 2nd amendment, as big government oppression and attacks against personal liberty. The historic gun mythology - red blooded patriot, strong man, steely eyed, and quick on the draw, also hold these folks in thrall. A sort of objectified porn, if you will. Happiness is a warm gun, bang bang, shoot, shoot......
The Unknown Poster Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, do or die said: For all the talk of NRA money.....it is their ability to mobilize a certain voting block, that allows them to hold sway over legislators in the House and Senate. Give them credit - they have instilled quite the Pavlovian reflex, among their supporters. Any minute piece of control legislature on guns..... is immediately translated via the 2nd amendment, as big government oppression and attacks against personal liberty. The historic gun mythology - red blooded patriot, strong man, steely eyed, and quick on the draw, also hold these folks in thrall. A sort of objectified porn, if you will. Happiness is a warm gun, bang bang, shoot, shoot...... Yes. And to not just beat up on Conservative groups, Unions do the same thing. I wish lobby spending would be outlawed. Election donations should be private citizens and limited. And entire campaign expenses should be limited as well.
pigseye Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 And that's how it starts, first it's your lawn darts, then your kindereggs and finally your guns, lol.
do or die Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, pigseye said: And that's how it starts, first it's your lawn darts, then your kindereggs and finally your guns, lol. Well, I hid my shuttlecock.....
JCon Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said: Prohibition wasnt a cultural thing, was "new", was a denial of rights rather then an actual right and it was believed the repeal would help law enforcement since prohibition wasnt working anyway. It was very unpopular. The NRA has helped make guns a cultural right that many Americans who are not gun owners feel is somehow a God-given right. People debate the amendment but realistically, I think it is pretty clearly not relevant today. Prohibition was definitely cultural. It was rural vs city. Protestant vs immigrant. It started as a push back against saloons and drunkenness but really evolved. I strongly recommend the Ken Burns documentary on Prohibition, available on Netlfix. 3 episodes and In many ways, you can see how the debates mirror each other. The gun lobby pushes so hard to maintain the status quo, unwavering support for full access to all forms guns may be their undoing. The Prohibitionists, the "Dry's" did the same thing. They pushed so hard and were so inflexible that it led to repeal. If they had allowed some forms of consumption, like those allowed in the Volstead act (wine and cider), I feel that they would have kept the 18th Amendment. The Unknown Poster 1
The Unknown Poster Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, JCon said: Prohibition was definitely cultural. It was rural vs city. Protestant vs immigrant. It started as a push back against saloons and drunkenness but really evolved. I strongly recommend the Ken Burns documentary on Prohibition, available on Netlfix. 3 episodes and In many ways, you can see how the debates mirror each other. The gun lobby pushes so hard to maintain the status quo, unwavering support for full access to all forms guns may be their undoing. The Prohibitionists, the "Dry's" did the same thing. They pushed so hard and were so inflexible that it led to repeal. If they had allowed some forms of consumption, like those allowed in the Volstead act (wine and cider), I feel that they would have kept the 18th Amendment. I actually watched some of that. I very much enjoy Ken Burns. I should not understate the cultural influence of prohibition. JCon 1
do or die Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team is reportedly investigating whether former Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort promised a White House job to a banker in exchange for home loans.http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374869-mueller-investigating-whether-manafort-promised-banker-a-trump ....and the heat goes on... The Unknown Poster 1
JCon Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, do or die said: Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team is reportedly investigating whether former Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort promised a White House job to a banker in exchange for home loans.http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374869-mueller-investigating-whether-manafort-promised-banker-a-trump ....and the heat goes on... Everyone promises WH jobs in exchange for kickbacks. Nothingburger. Come to me when they have footage, shot of from multiple cameras, of Trump shooting a porn star in the head who was impregnated by Trump Jr. Otherwise, everything is fine. Happens everywhere, like in Honolulu, Hawaii, Kenya. The Unknown Poster 1
HardCoreBlue Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, JCon said: Everyone promises WH jobs in exchange for kickbacks. Nothingburger. Come to me when they have footage, shot of from multiple cameras, of Trump shooting a porn star in the head who was impregnated by Trump Jr. Otherwise, everything is fine. Happens everywhere, like in Honolulu, Hawaii, Kenya. Even that won't do it. Catch me doing it in person, then maybe. Everything else, fake, hey what's that over there? JCon 1
do or die Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, HardCoreBlue said: Even that won't do it. Catch me doing it in person, then maybe. Everything else, fake, hey what's that over there? Yup, have to remember that the Hollywood Access tape was doctored.
JCon Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, HardCoreBlue said: Even that won't do it. Catch me doing it in person, then maybe. Everything else, fake, hey what's that over there? Everyone knows the moon landing was faked. If they can fake the moon landing, certainly the Libs that own Hollywood could fake DT bumping off a porn star.
do or die Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 What a coincidence...... Alex Jones over at Infowars, has just set me straight.......Sandy Hook was a staged event.
do or die Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, JCon said: Everyone promises WH jobs in exchange for kickbacks. Nothingburger. Come to me when they have footage, shot of from multiple cameras, of Trump shooting a porn star in the head who was impregnated by Trump Jr. Otherwise, everything is fine. Happens everywhere, like in Honolulu, Hawaii, Kenya. I fail to see the levity, in such a tragic event........besides it probably not impress 35% of the population. Edited February 21, 2018 by do or die
JCon Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, do or die said: I fail to see the levity, in such a tragic event........ What tragic event?
do or die Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, JCon said: What tragic event? Why, Trump's reputation being besmirched, of course......
JCon Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, do or die said: Why, Trump's reputation being besmirched, of course...... He's happy when he's in the news. If Fox and Friends doesn't have a problem with it, why should he?
pigseye Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Quote A Florida con man named Thomas Jefferson Johnson uses the passing of the longtime Congressman from his district, Jeff Johnson (who died of a heart attack while having sex with his secretary), to get elected to the United States Congress as a freshman Congressman, where the money flows from lobbyists. Omitting his first name, and abbreviating his middle name, he calls himself "Jeff" Johnson. He then manages to get on the ballot by pitching a seniors organization, the Silver Foxes, to nominate him as their candidate for office. Once on the election ballot, he uses the dead Congressman's old campaign material and runs a low budget campaign that appeals to name recognition, figuring most people do not pay much attention and simply vote for the "name you know." He wins a slim victory and is off to Washington, a place where the "streets are lined with gold." Initially, the lucrative donations and campaign contributions roll in, but as he learns the nature of the con game in Washington D.C., he starts to see how the greed and corruption makes it difficult to address issues such as campaign finance reform, environmental protection, and the possibility that electric power companies may have a product that is giving kids in a small town cancer. In trying to address these issues, Congressman Johnson finds himself double-crossed by the Chairman of the Committee on Power and Industry, Rep. **** Dodge. Johnson decides to fight back the only way he knows how: with a con. Johnson succeeds and exposes Dodge as corrupt. As the film ends, it appears likely that Johnson will be thrown out of Congress for the manner in which he was elected, but he defiantly declares, "I'm gonna run for President!" then breaking the fourth wall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Distinguished_Gentleman I might have to watch this movie again as it seems to be making a comeback in Washington.
JCon Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, pigseye said: And that's how it starts, first it's your lawn darts, then your kindereggs and finally your guns, lol. Popeye cigarettes. Brandon Blue&Gold 1
johnzo Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, JCon said: I'm not sure I agree. The religious right carries a whole lot of weight and lobbying power. They also have weekly access to speak directly to their constituents. The alcohol lobby is quite wealthy as well. They certainly leveraged that weight to suppress the legalization and/or decriminalization of marijuana. Yeah, you've definitely got a point. It's interesting to think about how much power the American religious right wields as opposed to the straight-up capitalist lobby groups. There's a strain of thinking on the left that the religious right exists mainly to enable the capitalist right -- my impression is that the capitalist right is much more effective at driving politics than the religious right is. I don't know much about the lobbying pro and con for dope legalization down here. Washington and Colorado, the pioneer dope states, both legalized via citizen initiative, which bypasses that lobbying to some extent, so no one was talking about where the money was flowing. Edited February 21, 2018 by johnzo JCon 1
johnzo Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Hey, while we're talking about Manafort -- if you want a look at what a despicable piece-of-**** cartoon heel he is, check this out: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/ The Trump stuff is just the latest chapter. Dude has been buying and selling influence forever, often to very, very bad people -- in the eighties, he basically turned a murderous Angolan guerilla into King T'Challa. Ferdinand Marcos, the vile old dictator of the Philippines, used him to get suction on the USA too. I'd love to see him do a massive stint at club fed for whatever crime Mueller can tag him with...
do or die Posted February 21, 2018 Report Posted February 21, 2018 Props up and influence peddles tinpot dictators.......so in retrospect, perfectly logical choice for Trump's National Security Advisor.
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