pigseye Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 4 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said: On what basis do you say the FBI has no authority to investigate a President, only Congress? The FBI is a police agency, and last I checked, police open criminal investigations all the time. So far, your only justification for your position is "that's not the way I see it". Cite me a passage from the Constitution, the U.S, Criminal Code, a binding case from the Supreme Court, or the FBI field manual, please. Not trying (too much) to be argumentative, seriously want to know what prevents the FBI from doing this if you know, because I don't. An FBI investigation into a person (any person) acting as an agent for a foreign power would fall under the criminal offence of treason, would it not? Article 2 of the Constitution and the Supreme Court, it's all explained here, https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-grounds-can-fbi-investigate-president-counterintelligence-threat
pigseye Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 5 hours ago, 17to85 said: He's already found a mountain of ****.... On other people, not on Trump because even if he does, guess what, The Supreme Court has often affirmed, many times since United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp., that it is the president himself, not the executive branch, who possesses “the very delicate, plenary and exclusive power … as the sole organ of the federal government in the field of international relations—a power which does not require as a basis for its exercise an act of Congress.” Moreover, the president has plenary control within the executive branch of the intelligence power and classified information, which is defined, by the president, in terms of harm to national security. In short, the president is the person constitutionally charged with determining what constitutes the national security interest and national security threats for the executive branch, which is where the FBI is located.
bustamente Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 Barr will be confirmed as AG and no most of Mueller's report will not be released for public consumption, and then the real fun will begin.
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 Imagine knowing everything we already do and still clinging to trump. Lol even his base is turning on him. You have to be a special kind of alt right to still embrace the guy. Its that erosion in his base that will turn the gop on him too
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 10 hours ago, pigseye said: Article 2 of the Constitution and the Supreme Court, it's all explained here, https://www.lawfareblog.com/what-grounds-can-fbi-investigate-president-counterintelligence-threat Your link doesnt support your assertion. It clearly says the FBI has the right to open counter-intelligence investigations. And it further emphasized the mere possibility that doing so was imprudent. Obviously they were well-founded and to avoid any conflicts, a special counsel was formed. Wanna-B-Fanboy 1
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 10 hours ago, pigseye said: On other people, not on Trump because even if he does, guess what, The Supreme Court has often affirmed, many times since United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp., that it is the president himself, not the executive branch, who possesses “the very delicate, plenary and exclusive power … as the sole organ of the federal government in the field of international relations—a power which does not require as a basis for its exercise an act of Congress.” Moreover, the president has plenary control within the executive branch of the intelligence power and classified information, which is defined, by the president, in terms of harm to national security. In short, the president is the person constitutionally charged with determining what constitutes the national security interest and national security threats for the executive branch, which is where the FBI is located. I dont think that means what you think it means. What does that have to do with Trump conspiring with a foreign power? lol
17to85 Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 11 hours ago, pigseye said: On other people, not on Trump because even if he does, guess what, The Supreme Court has often affirmed, many times since United States v. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp., that it is the president himself, not the executive branch, who possesses “the very delicate, plenary and exclusive power … as the sole organ of the federal government in the field of international relations—a power which does not require as a basis for its exercise an act of Congress.” Moreover, the president has plenary control within the executive branch of the intelligence power and classified information, which is defined, by the president, in terms of harm to national security. In short, the president is the person constitutionally charged with determining what constitutes the national security interest and national security threats for the executive branch, which is where the FBI is located. The investigation is still ongoing, which is why Trump hasn't been fingered yet (though spoiler alert, he is individual 1, who is implicated in state level charges). Unless you think that Trump is some stooge being played by all the people around him, and in that case, well I wish you luck in life, it must be tough for you. Also, all this **** happened before Trump was president so what does your little bolded rant have to do with that anyway?
Jacquie Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 Even Burger King trolled Trump: Tracker and blue_gold_84 1 1
bustamente Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Jacquie said: Even Burger King trolled Trump: Wanna-B-Fanboy, The Unknown Poster, Tracker and 1 other 1 3
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, 17to85 said: The investigation is still ongoing, which is why Trump hasn't been fingered yet (though spoiler alert, he is individual 1, who is implicated in state level charges). Unless you think that Trump is some stooge being played by all the people around him, and in that case, well I wish you luck in life, it must be tough for you. Also, all this **** happened before Trump was president so what does your little bolded rant have to do with that anyway? Trump has already been fingered in campaign finance violations, a felony. Were he not the President, he'd be indicted for that. The idea Trump, as President, can decide how to relate to other leaders has ZERO to do with conspiring with an enemy nation commit crimes during an election WHEN HE WAS NOT PRESIDENT. lol No one is saying his private meetings with Putin are illegal. They are saying it creates suspicion of previous bad acts when evidence is viewed in its entirety.
pigseye Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, 17to85 said: The investigation is still ongoing, which is why Trump hasn't been fingered yet (though spoiler alert, he is individual 1, who is implicated in state level charges). Unless you think that Trump is some stooge being played by all the people around him, and in that case, well I wish you luck in life, it must be tough for you. Also, all this **** happened before Trump was president so what does your little bolded rant have to do with that anyway? Yes the investigation is still ongoing which is why I said Meuller better find evidence of Trump conspiring with the Russians and make it public, because if he doesn't, Trumps side is going to keep spinning it as a witch hunt and say 'see I told you' and his base will lap it up and sow further distrust in the law enforcement agencies. The bolded rant has to do with the FBI beginning a counterintelligence investigation after Trump fired Comey and before Mueller was assigned, that is a no no, the FBI's own watchdog admitted as much. Trump's side will use this more evidence that the FBI was just out to get him. I don't know why you think I'm on Trumps side, I'm just pointing out how his side is going to spin this and probably get away with it.
pigseye Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said: I dont think that means what you think it means. What does that have to do with Trump conspiring with a foreign power? lol Because it's the president who ultimately decides what is and isn't national security and classified information, it is his sole prerogative according to the SC.
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, pigseye said: Because it's the president who ultimately decides what is and isn't national security and classified information, it is his sole prerogative according to the SC. What does that have to do with the Mueller investigation? You're trying very hard to create a false narrative. But Im pretty sure you know it's false rather than you just completely missing the facts.
pigseye Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: What does that have to do with the Mueller investigation? You're trying very hard to create a false narrative. But Im pretty sure you know it's false rather than you just completely missing the facts. Here's the point. Mueller was lawfully assigned to investigate Russian interference in the election and whatever else came from that. The FBI took it upon themselves to begin a counterintelligence investigation of Trump before Mueller was assigned. The FBI cannot do that, you have to go back to when JE Hoover was in charge of the FBI and bugged everyones offices and used the information for his own personal gains, that is why the FBI cannot just open a counterintelligence investigation on sitting elected officials. They have to have prior approval from the president to do such a thing as it is the president who ultimately decides what is and isn't national security and classified information and is in charge of the executive branch which the FBI falls under.
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, pigseye said: Here's the point. Mueller was lawfully assigned to investigate Russian interference in the election and whatever else came from that. The FBI took it upon themselves to begin a counterintelligence investigation of Trump before Mueller was assigned. The FBI cannot do that, you have to go back to when JE Hoover was in charge of the FBI and bugged everyones offices and used the information for his own personal gains, that is why the FBI cannot just open a counterintelligence investigation on sitting elected officials. They have to have prior approval from the president to do such a thing as it is the president who ultimately decides what is and isn't national security and classified information and is in charge of the executive branch which the FBI falls under. Thats not even what your linked story said. The FBI CAN open counter-intelligence investigations. Okay, Im going to let you in on a secret. Trump wasn't the President prior to the swearing in. He doesn't get a pass on his actions just because he LATER became President. That's the big point you're missing and the flaw in your argument that Trump can do whatever he wants and these investigations dont matter.
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, pigseye said: Yes the investigation is still ongoing which is why I said Meuller better find evidence of Trump conspiring with the Russians and make it public, because if he doesn't, Trumps side is going to keep spinning it as a witch hunt and say 'see I told you' and his base will lap it up and sow further distrust in the law enforcement agencies. The bolded rant has to do with the FBI beginning a counterintelligence investigation after Trump fired Comey and before Mueller was assigned, that is a no no, the FBI's own watchdog admitted as much. Trump's side will use this more evidence that the FBI was just out to get him. I don't know why you think I'm on Trumps side, I'm just pointing out how his side is going to spin this and probably get away with it. Dude, you ALWAYS pop in here, usually when Trump is reeling, and try to change the narrative to something in defense of Trump. lol I've never known anyone to both claim they dislike a person and to so vehemently defend them.
pigseye Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: Thats not even what your linked story said. The FBI CAN open counter-intelligence investigations. Okay, Im going to let you in on a secret. Trump wasn't the President prior to the swearing in. He doesn't get a pass on his actions just because he LATER became President. That's the big point you're missing and the flaw in your argument that Trump can do whatever he wants and these investigations dont matter. Anything Trump/his campaign did before he became president is fair game and that is what the Mueller investigation has been focusing on up to now. It's the counterintelligence investigation which began while he was president and before Mueller was assigned that Trumps side will use to discredit the FBI. You don't seem to understand that Trump controls the FBI and that they cannot just start spying on elected officials unless the president deems it a matter of national security. Article 2 of the Constitution and the SC have already decided this, it's not a matter of opinion or a defense of Trump. You always try to spin it as a Trump supporter thing, you should try to be a little unbiased in your posts.
17to85 Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 34 minutes ago, pigseye said: I don't know why you think I'm on Trumps side, I'm just pointing out how his side is going to spin this and probably get away with it. You keep supporting the dude you are clearly on his side. There are no two sides to this story, there is only this: Trump and his team committed a ton of crimes, which are being found out and the only reason he's still in the office is because the Republican party is still protecting him because it's party ahead of country for them. The second they deem he is not worth the trouble they'll turn on him and he will be fitted for an orange jump suit regardless of whether or not the ignorant parts of the USA support Trump or not. Wanna-B-Fanboy, The Unknown Poster, bb.king and 1 other 4
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, pigseye said: Anything Trump/his campaign did before he became president is fair game and that is what the Mueller investigation has been focusing on up to now. It's the counterintelligence investigation which began while he was president and before Mueller was assigned that Trumps side will use to discredit the FBI. You don't seem to understand that Trump controls the FBI and that they cannot just start spying on elected officials unless the president deems it a matter of national security. Article 2 of the Constitution and the SC have already decided this, it's not a matter of opinion or a defense of Trump. You always try to spin it as a Trump supporter thing, you should try to be a little unbiased in your posts. Im not unbiased. Trump is clearly a racist and a criminal. Why would you be unbiased towards racists? Thats weird. The FBI can open counter-intelligence investigations. You want to spin this as an example of a FBI run amok. It isnt. The only element of the FBI that was crooked was the New York office which was tight with Rudy. You dont talk about that much. Are you biased?
pigseye Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, 17to85 said: You keep supporting the dude you are clearly on his side. There are no two sides to this story, there is only this: Trump and his team committed a ton of crimes, which are being found out and the only reason he's still in the office is because the Republican party is still protecting him because it's party ahead of country for them. The second they deem he is not worth the trouble they'll turn on him and he will be fitted for an orange jump suit regardless of whether or not the ignorant parts of the USA support Trump or not. It's not about which side of the fence you are on, it's about trying to guess what each side will do next. It's all just speculation, I have no dog in this fight, I just like to point out that the FBI may have effed up before Mueller was assigned which plays right into Trumps narrative.
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 pelosi sent trump a letter basically disinviting him from giving the state of the union. Several Dems were invited to the White House today and declined until government reopens
pigseye Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: Im not unbiased. Trump is clearly a racist and a criminal. Why would you be unbiased towards racists? Thats weird. The FBI can open counter-intelligence investigations. You want to spin this as an example of a FBI run amok. It isnt. The only element of the FBI that was crooked was the New York office which was tight with Rudy. You dont talk about that much. Are you biased? I'm only concerned with Russian interference and collusion. I don't care if the guys a racist or a criminal, many presidents before Trump were just as bad, some even worse although those were different times. You and I will have to disagree on what powers the FBI have, they can't just go around spying on elected officials, that is Nazi stuff.
The Unknown Poster Posted January 16, 2019 Report Posted January 16, 2019 Just now, pigseye said: I'm only concerned with Russian interference and collusion. I don't care if the guys a racist or a criminal, many presidents before Trump were just as bad, some even worse although those were different times. You and I will have to disagree on what powers the FBI have, they can't just go around spying on elected officials, that is Nazi stuff. That answers a lot. Comparing the FBI opening a reasonable investigation that had the approval of officials to Nazi stuff is absurd. Do you really hate the FBI that much? Stop watching FOX news.
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