US Politics

[Zontar]

3 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Kinda funny:

 

Hillarious, Karen, now list the "bombshells" that were proven to be wrong. Including all the "walls are closing in" collusion stories  Collusion was a media abetted fraud.

[Rich]

23 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Trump: Do this

Official : I can't,  that's illegal.

Isn't the same as

Trump: Do this illegal thing.

Official: Gasp, on the lives of my children I will never execute such an evil directive.

Big difference. Which is why anti Trumpers want to believe option 2.

Except neither of those things are what happened.

What about aids ignoring orders and praying that it just doesn't come up again, putting "spin" on their answers that they had done "something" but not what he really requested, or Trump firing people for not doing as he asked.

The world really isn't broken down into "anti Trumpers" and "Trumpers".  Can't stand this black and white thinking.   The world and this whole situation is in general more complicated than that.  

[Mark F]

15 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Kinda funny:

Funny thing ... there are some "truth to power" left leaning people and web sites, that are just as rabid Clinton haters as the Breitbart types.

They have been saying all along that Steele knows nothing, that there was no collusion, that Assange is an innocent victim who knew not about Russian origin of the leaked stuff.

They are right in line with their normal arch enemies, the Breitbart types.

AFter the summary, they were crowing just a loudly as Trump. Demanding apologies from the mainstreamers. No collusion, no conspiracy. echoing Trump.

And still are. Credibility: zero.

 bunch of wack jobs.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Mark F

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

5 minutes ago, Mark F said:

Funny thing ... there are some "truth to power" left leaning people and web sites, that are just as rabid Clinton haters as the Breitbart types.

They have been saying all along that Steele knows nothing, that there was no collusion, that Assange is an innocent victim who knew not about Russian origin of the leaked stuff.

They are right in line with their normal arch enemies, the Breitbart types.

AFter the summary, they were crowing just a loudly as Trump. Demanding apologies from the mainstreamers. No collusion, no conspiracy. echoing Trump.

And still are. Credibility: zero.

 bunch of wack jobs.

I blame that on the spin Barr did. It was totally transparent and in his wheelhouse (he's done this sort of thing twice in the past re:1989 Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel and again in the iran contra scandal.). Its funny to see people so surprised by his actions... 

Upon Barr's appointment I thought of this:

"A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, both would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog then agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature."

--Fable of the Scorpion and the Frog

 

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

58 minutes ago, Rich said:

Seems to me this debate about impeaching and indicting Trump has run its course for now.    Let’s see what happens next with the report  

Amazes me how a number of you can fill up pages and pages of posts repeating the same things back and forth.   Dedication .  

Here is something that has been mentioned but a little lost in the shuffle. 

The report indicates Trump aids regularly ignore his orders because they are reportedly illegal or unwise.  

Is this an indication of the system working in the US.   Where would we be today if everyone had followed his orders?    Or is this more an indictment of a broken presidency as utter chaos.    Or both?

 

Well.. impeachment has and will always be dictated by the court of public opinion... so there is that. You can't indict a sitting president according to the DOJ so- indictment is off the table. the way to indict a president is to Impeach to remove from office, and then indict... I believe that is the proper mechanism for that. 

 

First impulse is to say that system is broken... then upon second thought, you look at what transpired and say... yeah the checks and balances worked... but then in a more in depth look at what happened to trigger all this.... it could really all be chance...

If Rosenstein didn't have a sense of self-preservation after being thrown under the bus for signing off and being the "patsy" for firing Comey... we wouldn't have the Mueller investigation. 

 

[Mark F]

15 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

blame that on the spin Barr did

no, that's not what I'm talking about.

this was during the democratic primaries, and the election. these people were lefties for Trump, anybody but Hillary, Hillary will start ww 3 types.

They loathed Hillary Clinton.  They swallowed the "her emails" hook line and sinker.

real idiots.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Mark F

[kelownabomberfan]

2 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Oh yes, it does.  Trudeau (for example) happened to have an AG with integrity who didn't go along with the status quo.  But most of the time, that is exactly how the real world works. 

This statement by Mark and Rich's comment about Trump's aids not doing what he asked really tweaked what I had already been thinking.  Trump's got a road-map to follow, laid down for him by our own government here in Canada, who essentially is caught in the same kind of quagmire (did Trudeau break the law?  If his aides didn't do what he asked, is that mean he's off the hook?  Did he commit obstruction?).  There was a huge out-cry here in Canada too, and the Trudeau Liberals have just been saying "nothing to see here" and changing the subject, hoping everyone will just forget about LavScam and the potential malfeasance committed.  Can Trump get away with the same strategy?  

Granted Trudeau and Trump operate differently.  Trump just doesn't care, and says so, while Trudeau tries to play the sanctimony card.  But the strategy is the same - just deny, ignore, lie, spin, and hope it goes away in time for the next election.  I am not saying that Trump would have acted differently if he didn't already have the Trudeau model to follow, but he does have a precedent now to follow, set by our own gang of lying slime right here in Canada.

[kelownabomberfan]

Just now, Mark F said:

no, that's not what I'm talking about.

these was during the democratic primaries, and the election. these people were lefties for Trump, anybody but Hillary, Hillary will start ww 3 types.

They loathed Hillary Clinton. 

real idiots.

perhaps if she hadn't antagonized them by calling them "baskets of deplorables", they might have been more sympathetic.  That was a brilliant move to show that she wasn't an elitist.  I still say that by far the biggest mistake Hillary made was posting this tweet a week before the election:

How can you be so stunningly non-self-aware that this would come off as arrogant and elitist?

[bustamente]

DOJ to the Democrats wanting the full unredacted Mueller report, get ready for a battle.

[The Unknown Poster]

3 hours ago, Zontar said:

Hillarious, Karen, now list the "bombshells" that were proven to be wrong. Including all the "walls are closing in" collusion stories  Collusion was a media abetted fraud.

The report is filled with stories of collusion. Why are you continuing to push this falsehood?

[The Unknown Poster]

The obstruction statute is actually very clear. An endeavour to obstruct is a crime as much as actually obstructing. 

The only reason trump isn’t indicted today is because he’s president.  Just because people refuse your orders to act illegally doesn’t save you. Not to mention the actual obstruction he did commit like firing Comey. 

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, bustamente said:

DOJ to the Democrats wanting the full unredacted Mueller report, get ready for a battle.

Probably the best thing to happen is Trump continues to fight releasing the full report. Which puts off impeachment through the next election but gives the Dems something else (among many things) to campaign on, the fact trump is hiding this report. 

Best case scenario, Dems win white horse and new House control. Be nice to get a senate majority too. But ultimately not needed. If there is. Dem president with House protection, that report comes out and gets sent to the fbi. And very possibly trump gets indicted. 

Realistically though at that point, sure hold him accountable. But he’s be out of office so it’s almost what’s the point. Especially give the fact there continues to be other investigations into trump and his company that could be far more damaging to him and his empire. 

[17to85]

17 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The report is filled with stories of collusion. Why are you continuing to push this falsehood?

yeah every thing I've read Mueller basically says "there was a ton of collusion here, but collusion isn't in the criminal code so we looked at conspiracy and while we see all these acts of collusion we don't see an official agreement between Russian government and Trump to really nail him to the wall"

So if that's the angle one wants to play go for that, it's what Barr did, but to say no collusion, that's just not paying attention. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

yeah every thing I've read Mueller basically says "there was a ton of collusion here, but collusion isn't in the criminal code so we looked at conspiracy and while we see all these acts of collusion we don't see an official agreement between Russian government and Trump to really nail him to the wall"

So if that's the angle one wants to play go for that, it's what Barr did, but to say no collusion, that's just not paying attention. 

And that is the issue here... He saw a ton collusion with, what are basically extensions of the GRU and RUssian intelligence), but since they are not technically Russian Government, it doesn't count towards the scope of the Mueller probe. 

I think however... these instances were referred to the counter-intelligence investigations that are going on. 

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, bustamente said:

DOJ to the Democrats wanting the full unredacted Mueller report, get ready for a battle.

Quote

For what it’s worth, Attorney General William Barr said the White House did not play a part in the redaction process — and that instead, it was DOJ lawyers, Mueller’s team, and members of the intelligence community.

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

Interesting take on things regarding Mueller report...

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/19/opinions/mueller-report-obama-jennings/index.html

 

very critical of Obama, but it peddles the mueller report to cover obama's butt... I don't buy it- that was mostly Rosenstien. 

I however agree that during Obama's presidency, he did very little (other than sanctions after the fact) to dissuade the russians in the electtion meddling and annexation of crimea.... 

Though the author doesn't mention Cocaine mitch's obscuring Obama's warning though... (of all the politicians... he is the absolute worse).

Interseting take from Biden:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/23/mitch-mcconnell-russia-obama-joe-biden-359531

 

 

d 

Edited April 20, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

 

 

I don't think there is a smocking gun in those redact portions, interesting read- would make things more clearer- but no smocking gun. 

I am more interested in the counter- intelligence investigations and Mueller's testimony., those are going to be very interesting. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[johnzo]

8 hours ago, Zontar said:

Mueller report was supposed to rectify the injustice of Hillary losing and Trump winning. 

If the investigation was really to  "rectify the injustice of Hillary losing" then why did the Republican attorney general (nominated by Trump, confirmed by GOP Senate) recuse himself from the proceedings, leaving the Republican deputy AG (nominated by Trump, confirmed by the GOP Senate) to appoint Mueller -- a registered Republican -- as a special counsel.

The Dems living in your head have a frankly amazing ability to make Republicans do their exact bidding.

I wish we had those Dems instead of the ones we've got.

[bustamente]

Maybe he should ask his pal Putin how to exact revenge on his enemies.

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

4 minutes ago, bustamente said:

Maybe he should ask his pal Putin how to exact revenge on his enemies.

 

What is crazy about this is the fact that **** could totally go down... I mean the McCarthy era was insane... this sounds like the direction it's going... 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

4 minutes ago, bustamente said:

Maybe he should ask his pal Putin how to exact revenge on his enemies.

 

What is crazy about this is the fact that **** could totally go down... I mean the McCarthy era was insane... this sounds like the direction it's going... 

[bustamente]

A fine Trump supporter to lazy to hold the lease, mad at the world, nothing is his fault, even his dog thinks he's a idiot

[The Unknown Poster]

Worth a read.   Details how Barr carries trumps water 

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/04/19/politics/barr-versus-mueller-report/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

[The Unknown Poster]

Another excellent read.  Anonymous former White House staffer analyzing aspects of the report.  For their that haven’t read the report in full (most of us) it shows a lot of the collusion and obstruction.  Not opinion, facts as reported my Mueller. 

https://angrystaffer.com/

[The Unknown Poster]