US Politics

[pigseye]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What part of the quote are you disputing?  

Im not sure I'd consider impeachment "no teeth", but I suppose opinions vary.

clinton was impeached because starr found direct criminal evidence against him.

trump may be impeached even though mueller did not find the same direct criminal evidence.

but i wouldn't expect you to give a **** either way. 

[Wideleft]

4 minutes ago, Zontar said:

One most certainly can because no matter how the investigation was conducted what matters is the result. The result was no collusion,  no obstruction. Even with the deck stacked against him. Which goes along way in explaining the resulting hysteria and anger.

You clearly have not even read a summary of Volume 2, but that's ok - neither has Barr.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, pigseye said:

clinton was impeached because starr found direct criminal evidence against him.

trump may be impeached even though mueller did not find the same direct criminal evidence.

but i wouldn't expect you to give a **** either way. 

You dont believe Obstruction is criminal?  A lot of people can claim they're innocent if you choose to de-criminalize their crimes.  

I've been pretty clear on my thoughts regarding impeachment.  But I wouldnt expect you to care either.

[kelownabomberfan]

48 minutes ago, do or die said:

Impeachment is a political act, not a strictly legal one. 
In fact,  if there were no Watergate tapes, Nixon and his underlings, just might of gotten away with his/their obstruction, perjury, campaign finance violations, political dirty tricks, etc....

But that didn't not make any of it, right.

 

This is true to some extent.  If you look back on the whole Watergate thing, Nixon had no part in any of it, the spying, the dirty tricks, etc.  He had pretty much zero knowledge of anything that gang of boneheads were doing.  It was his decision to cover it all up that did him in, and to have that decision actually recorded on tape.  Reality was that Nixon won the election in 1972 handily.  G. Gordon Liddy and his gang were a bunch of idiots for doing what they did.  None of it was even necessary for Nixon to win the election.  Read G. Gordon Liddy's book if you want the real inside scoop into the mind of lunatic.

[Zontar]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Again, truth Czar would say you are maliciously posting untrue things.  Your post is factually false.  Please stop doing that.  It just muddies the thread.  

Trump won the election and is in the White House as President.

He was supposed to be a traitor and removed.

He wasnt and he's not.

and you are still where you are doing what you do .

These are facts.

[pigseye]

7 minutes ago, Zontar said:

One most certainly can because no matter how the investigation was conducted what matters is the result. The result was no collusion,  no obstruction. Even with the deck stacked against him. Which goes along way in explaining the resulting hysteria and anger.

We just have to wait for them to hold their breath until they pass out because they clearly can't accept that there isn't enough direct evidence to charge him with anything. The house may still decide to impeach him, even without any criminal charges, but that won't get him out of office and will only result in making matters even worse. If your going to impeach you better be sure you have direct evidence of crimes, like they found against nixon and clinton.  

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

20 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You dont even use the words accurately.  You're clearly trolling.  I cannot imagine someone being so consumed with a US election that they'd do that.  

Im all for debate.  I love a good debate.  Many intelligent people post here and occasionally change my mind on various topics.  But this trolling behaviour is clearly designed to get threads off topic or locked.

You've done this many times and been corrected/educated numerous times.  Please stop.  Its not a debate or discussion when you are embracing/pushing untrue things (which you know are untrue).

Mueller never said there was no collusion and he certainly didnt say there was no obstruction. 

Don't get worked up- it's the Barr summary in full effect. 

[kelownabomberfan]

Here's Adam Schiff on Bill Maher on Sunday.  Thoughts?  He's really not a fan of impeachment (3:48)...

 

[Zontar]

8 minutes ago, pigseye said:

We just have to wait for them to hold their breath until they pass out because they clearly can't accept that there isn't enough direct evidence to charge him with anything. The house may still decide to impeach him, even without any criminal charges, but that won't get him out of office and will only result in making matters even worse. If your going to impeach you better be sure you have direct evidence of crimes, like they found against nixon and clinton.  

Democrats are still trying to find a way for impeachment not to look like a partisan smear job to embarrass a hated opponent after crapping out on Mueller report. 

They know the longer they wait the more cynical it looks and how ,,in the end, it will just entrench the political divide anyway.

Meanwhile they have to campaign with a career nothing like Biden or socialist Sanders.

It isn't a happy or confident party by any stretch of the imagination. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Zontar

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

7 minutes ago, pigseye said:

We just have to wait for them to hold their breath until they pass out because they clearly can't accept that there isn't enough direct evidence to charge him with anything. The house may still decide to impeach him, even without any criminal charges, but that won't get him out of office and will only result in making matters even worse. If your going to impeach you better be sure you have direct evidence of crimes, like they found against nixon and clinton.  

They have direct evidence of obstruction.  10 counts of it I believe.

[The Unknown Poster]

13 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Trump won the election and is in the White House as President.

He was supposed to be a traitor and removed.

He wasnt and he's not.

and you are still where you are doing what you do .

These are facts.

Who is supposed to be a traitor and who is supposed to be removed?  By whom?  You're not making any sense...

[The Unknown Poster]

9 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Don't get worked up- it's the Barr summary in full effect. 

Oh believe me, Im more amused then worked up.  But the MO on display is to spread untruths and false narratives, bait people and try to get the whole thing locked down.

If this was a discussion in the Jets thread and the same person kept repeating the same false fact over and over again, he'd be told to knock it off.  

I guarantee that a whole bunch of the "anti trumpers" that post in this thread could make a far better "right wing" argument then most of the trump-ites.  Because there is no basis in fact.  Its ignoring reality.  

[pigseye]

7 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Democrats are still trying to find a way for impeachment not to look like a partisan smear job to embarrass a hated opponent after crapping out on Mueller report. 

They know the longer they wait the more cynical it looks and how ,,in the end, it will just entrench the political divide anyway.

Meanwhile they have to campaign with a career nothing like Biden or socialist Sanders.

It isn't a happy or confident party by any stretch of the imagination. 

They are completely wondering in the wilderness now, their candidates are so uninspiring they are leaving the american people with no choice but trump 2020.  

[pigseye]

10 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

They have direct evidence of obstruction.  10 counts of it I believe.

Then the house should go ahead and charge trump and begin impeachment, why the delay?

[Zontar]

1 minute ago, pigseye said:

They are completely wondering in the wilderness now, their candidates are so uninspiring they are leaving the american people with no choice but trump 2020.  

Uninspiring is the least of it. They won't take the microphone away from the lunatic fringe and that's what will cost them an election. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, pigseye said:

Then the house should go ahead and charge trump and begin impeachment, why the delay?

See, if you dont even understand what is happening, why take part?

[Zontar]

With so many slam dunks in the report you gotta wonder about Mueller.

Why no recommendations for indictments 

Did the Russians buy him too? 

Launch the investigation. 

The resistance starts here and now.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Zontar

[The Unknown Poster]

12 minutes ago, Zontar said:

With so many slam dunks in the report you gotta wonder about Mueller.

Why no recommendations for indictments 

Did the Russians buy him too? 

Launch the investigation. 

The resistance starts here and now.

Truth Czar says: you can google all the indictments and guilty pleas resulting from the investigation.  In fact, someone already posted about it earlier today but you're ignoring it for some reason.

Edited May 2, 2019 by The Unknown Poster

[17to85]

16 minutes ago, Zontar said:

With so many slam dunks in the report you gotta wonder about Mueller.

Why no recommendations for indictments 

Did the Russians buy him too? 

Launch the investigation. 

The resistance starts here and now.

Why no indictments? Because he said flat out in the report he was adhering to the DoJ memo on not indicting a sitting president. So he did what the proper procedure is in that situation, let Congress do the job they are supposed to do. He said "ok here is the evidence we have collected, as the over sight on the executive branch you guys decide what to do with it" 

The reason they aren't rushing for impeachment is because the GOP controlled Senate is going to do everything they can to shield a Republican president so they are taking their time and making sure all the details are in order. 

You can see it with how they are treating Barr refusing to show up for their investigation. Ask the guy to show up, give him plenty of chances, say you will escalate appropriately if no compliance. Be patient, you will see this play out. Trump campaign colluded with Russia, people are already in jail for it, Trump obstructed justice, he will be punished for it.

[Wideleft]

At Trump golf course, undocumented employees said they were sometimes told to work extra hours without pay

 

 

 

“It was that way with all the managers: Many of them told us, ‘Just clock out and then stay and do the side work,’ ” Jose Gabriel Juarez, a former head waiter of the Grille Room at the Trump National Golf Club Westchester, said of the overtime he worked without pay. (Joshua Partlow/The Washington Post)

By Joshua Partlow and

David A. Fahrenthold

April 30

HILLSDALE, N.Y. — His bosses at the Trump country club called it “side work.”

On some nights, after the club’s Grille Room closed, head waiter Jose Gabriel Juarez — an undocumented immigrant from Mexico — was told to clock out. He pressed his index finger onto a scanner and typed his personal code, 436.

But he didn’t go home.

Instead — on orders from his bosses, Juarez said — he would stay on, sometimes past midnight. He vacuumed carpets, polished silverware and helped get the restaurant at Trump National Golf Club Westchester in Briar­cliff Manor, N.Y., ready for breakfast the next day.

All off the clock. Without being paid.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/at-trump-golf-course-undocumented-employees-said-they-were-sometimes-told-to-work-extra-hours-without-pay/2019/04/30/17f6c9be-65eb-11e9-83df-04f4d124151f_story.html?fbclid=IwAR04LE1CDMZKepMMCICe0YCvT-NAENYPEJ5a0sWUNFAKP6C6GcnmUdV5ltA&utm_term=.02c94e9c7cab

[Wideleft]

Emails show Trump admin had 'no way to link' separated migrant children to parents

 

May 1, 2019, 6:29 PM CDT / Updated May 1, 2019, 6:30 PM CDT

By Jacob Soboroff

LOS ANGELES — On the same day the Trump administration said it would reunite thousands of migrant families it had separated at the border with the help of a "central database," an official was admitting privately the government only had enough information to reconnect 60 parents with their kids, according to emails obtained by NBC News.

"n short, no, we do not have any linkages from parents to [children], save for a handful," a Health and Human Services official told a top official at Immigration and Customs Enforcement on June 23, 2018. "We have a list of parent alien numbers but no way to link them to children."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/emails-show-trump-admin-had-no-way-link-separated-migrant-n1000746

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Why no indictments? Because he said flat out in the report he was adhering to the DoJ memo on not indicting a sitting president. So he did what the proper procedure is in that situation, let Congress do the job they are supposed to do. He said "ok here is the evidence we have collected, as the over sight on the executive branch you guys decide what to do with it" 

The reason they aren't rushing for impeachment is because the GOP controlled Senate is going to do everything they can to shield a Republican president so they are taking their time and making sure all the details are in order. 

You can see it with how they are treating Barr refusing to show up for their investigation. Ask the guy to show up, give him plenty of chances, say you will escalate appropriately if no compliance. Be patient, you will see this play out. Trump campaign colluded with Russia, people are already in jail for it, Trump obstructed justice, he will be punished for it.

A few people here refuse to learn.  A few differences between this and Starr was that Starr's report was submitted to congress.  Mueller's was submitted to the DOJ.

It would have been nice if Mueller had ignored the DOJ and indicted trump but he couldnt do anything without the DOJ authorizing it so had he tried, it would simply have been denied.  And in fact, it may have been used against him to remove him.

I think Mueller did two things that are upsetting "anti-Trumpers".  1) he was very very fair to the President (probably out of respect for the office and a desire to be seen as impartial)  2). he wasnt more forceful in presenting his obstruction & collusion findings.  Ofcourse, collusion wasnt even apart of his mandate despite people here continually using that term.  And again, I suspect he didnt want to be overly forceful on obstruction because he didnt want to be seen as biased.  

He did an investigation.  He laid out his findings in black & white.  The only issue is the willful ignorance by people who wont accept the clear and obvious obstruction.

There was never any chance Trump would be indicted.  Just as there was no chance Clinton would be.  But I suppose Clinton was totally exonerated by Starr too lol

Mueller even makes a point of saying he recorded all the information for a reason - Congress to use it (or DOJ to use it when Trump is no longer President).  Its right there in the report.  

Im going to guess that perjury wont be seen as a real crime by the right either.  Only when it applies to a Clinton, but not to Barr, right?

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Emails show Trump admin had 'no way to link' separated migrant children to parents

 

May 1, 2019, 6:29 PM CDT / Updated May 1, 2019, 6:30 PM CDT

By Jacob Soboroff

LOS ANGELES — On the same day the Trump administration said it would reunite thousands of migrant families it had separated at the border with the help of a "central database," an official was admitting privately the government only had enough information to reconnect 60 parents with their kids, according to emails obtained by NBC News.

"n short, no, we do not have any linkages from parents to [children], save for a handful," a Health and Human Services official told a top official at Immigration and Customs Enforcement on June 23, 2018. "We have a list of parent alien numbers but no way to link them to children."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/emails-show-trump-admin-had-no-way-link-separated-migrant-n1000746

It shows you how incompetent this administration is. They couldn't even document the parents and children, nor did they care too. They didn't even have the foresight to think how this might come back on them. 

But these were brown people and Trump and his supporters didn't care. 

Edited May 2, 2019 by JCon

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, JCon said:

It shows you how incompetent this administration is. They couldn't even document the parents and children, nor did they care too. They didn't even have the foresight to think how this might come back on them. 

But these were brown people and Trump and his supporters didn't care. 

Maybe Im a cynic but do we think they even wanted to?  Or did they get perverse pleasure out of traumatizing little children and causing the kind of anguish and pain to parents that snatching their kids away would cause?

How anyone can support that is beyond me.  Gross.

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Maybe Im a cynic but do we think they even wanted to?  Or did they get perverse pleasure out of traumatizing little children and causing the kind of anguish and pain to parents that snatching their kids away would cause?

How anyone can support that is beyond me.  Gross.

Your cynicism is well placed.  Now let's hear what the defenders have to say.