US Politics

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Don't take the bait. Just let it play out or use ignore.

I wish there was an ignore function for specific people for specific threads. 

You’re right.  It’s sad but you’re right.   Oh well. Back to work

[do or die]

Away from this thread for half an hour......come back and see that is has totally gone south....again. 

Points are for supporting opinions and even arguments......not merely a some form of general stabbing or gutting tool.

Simply denigrating or insulting people, despite whatever personal satisfaction one gets out of it.....is squaring circles....and has never won an argument yet.  

Disclaimer:
The writer of this missive, makes no guarantee that it was not created under the influence, or that the writer has always followed this dictum 100%

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by do or die

[kelownabomberfan]

14 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Words.  Matter.  I don't blame others for what I write.

Also, there is no First Amendment in Canada.

Right.  I agree.  Words matter. I am in full agreement that there is no place for hate speech.  Just like the electoral college in the US, perhaps there should be some changes to the US First Amendment to be more like Canada in this regard, in how we don't tolerate hatred.  I support that 100%.

Perhaps we're just not understanding each other.  I'm pretty passionate about free speech.  I see it potentially disappearing, for a lot of wrong reasons that I don't agree with.  That's just me.

[Wideleft]

23 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Will the Dems impeach trump?

Should they?

How do you guys think the electorate is going to go if the begin impeachment?

 

 

I hope so.

Yes.

Dems will win either way.  

[kelownabomberfan]

9 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Don't take the bait. Just let it play out or use ignore.

I wish there was an ignore function for specific people for specific threads. 

And once again, I disagree.  We all have opinions, and we should state them freely.  If there is "hate" expressed, it shouldn't be tolerated.  But also, just because you are posting something that someone else disagrees with, that doesn't make it "hate".  It just means they have a different opinion.

[kelownabomberfan]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

I hope so.

Yes.

Dems will win either way.  

if they have someone worth voting for, I agree.  If they don't, it's going to be a tough slog.

[Fatty Liver]

47 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Thanks for that post, and it makes good points.  Perhaps the US system does need an overhaul.  But do it now.  It's too late to change 2016.  This is like saying that the Bombers should be awarded the 2007 Grey Cup.  It's over guys. Change the rules to allow instant replay, and now reffing mistakes that cost us that game are caught.  Fair ball.

Agreed, now is the precise time for a bipartisan committee to examine the function of the US government and reset guidelines so that the political discourse is not so polarizing and divisive, set new rules and follow them regardless of political stripe for the betterment of all.  The way their political system is deteriorating, their government is almost certain to be non-functional within a few short years.   Nobody can approve of the **** show it's become.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

because you are posting something that someone else disagrees with, that doesn't make it "hate".  It just means they have a different opinion.

Please show me where in this thread that someone called out hate speech just because they disagreed with a poster... I have not seen that all. I don't think anyone here has.

And please just PM me the example and/or response. Just so we can continue on topic here. I tried to pm you but was unable to.

[17to85]

What a waste of 2 pages... seriously guys.

So here is the problem with politics in the states right now: Republicans are gaming the system in their favour. Gerrymandering everything for their benefit, suppressing votes often in illegal ways, stacking judges favourable to their policies while obstructing any Democrat they can. 

They are a horribly unpopular party who is trying to manipulate the system to stay in power rather than trying to broaden their appeal.

Trump isn't really the problem, it's the Republican party that allowed a tool like him to ever get power and get away with the **** he does. Hillary gets dragged in front of committee after committee to testify hoping they can catch her at something, but Trump runs wild and we can't get him to testify, no that's just political grandstanding.

Shame that people are too stupid to look at things without their own biases.

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Don't take the bait. Just let it play out or use ignore.

I wish there was an ignore function for specific people for specific threads. 

You’re right.  It’s sad but you’re right.   Oh well. Back to work

[Wideleft]

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

What a waste of 2 pages... seriously guys.

 

[kelownabomberfan]

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

 

Shame that people are too stupid to look at things without their own biases.

[17to85]

So here is another question: 

Why do people think Trump has been good for the economy? The stock market might be doing ok but that is hardly the be all and end all for an economy. I see he has to spend 15 billion to bail out farmers he ****** over with his trade wars, how is that good economic stewardship? Fact is the economy is going to topple under trump, these things just move slowly, but the speed with which trump is destroying it is unprecedented.

[kelownabomberfan]

Just now, 17to85 said:

So here is another question: 

Why do people think Trump has been good for the economy? The stock market might be doing ok but that is hardly the be all and end all for an economy. I see he has to spend 15 billion to bail out farmers he ****** over with his trade wars, how is that good economic stewardship? Fact is the economy is going to topple under trump, these things just move slowly, but the speed with which trump is destroying it is unprecedented.

agree 100%. All Trump did was kick the can down the road.  The Depression that is coming now will be way worse than it would have been had Trump not been elected.  

[kelownabomberfan]

10 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Please show me where in this thread that someone called out hate speech just because they disagreed with a poster... I have not seen that all. I don't think anyone here has.

 

I don't know what you are saying, but here's what I am saying: Free speech is incredibly important.  As Jim Carrey says, too many people have paid for this right in blood.  We can review it to ensure that we get it right, but the bigger picture is so important.  People should have the right to say what they think.  We lose that, we lose everything.

 

 

[kelownabomberfan]

[The Unknown Poster]

19 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Ummmm....never mind.

[kelownabomberfan]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Ummmm....never mind.

ummm...what?

[The Unknown Poster]

20 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So here is another question: 

Why do people think Trump has been good for the economy? The stock market might be doing ok but that is hardly the be all and end all for an economy. I see he has to spend 15 billion to bail out farmers he ****** over with his trade wars, how is that good economic stewardship? Fact is the economy is going to topple under trump, these things just move slowly, but the speed with which trump is destroying it is unprecedented.

Economy is good but they dont want to give credit to Obama for leaving them with an up-swinging economy.  It could be because he's a Democrat or could be a couple of other reasons you can probably guess.  

Trump's plan is tax cut for the rich that wasnt good for average people, trade wars that he clearly doesnt understand and moving closer to war because he idolizes Generals (most of whom cant stand him) and desperately wants to be a war time President.  I bet he tries to award himself a medal too.

[kelownabomberfan]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Economy is good but they dont want to give credit to Obama for leaving them with an up-swinging economy.  It could be because he's a Democrat or could be a couple of other reasons you can probably guess.  

 

I think both Stephen Harper and Obama deserve a lot of credit for what they did to get North America out of the glue.  That was some tough sledding, and it was good to see Canada and the US working together to solve the problem.

[The Unknown Poster]

41 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

I hope so.

Yes.

Dems will win either way.  

I generally agree.  The Congress should do its duty regardless of political fall out.  I do think the idea of it being bad for the election is the hangover from the Clinton impeachment but that really was a witch hunt and the public was sick of it.  Nixon...the investigations really changed public perception to favour impeachment and he was toast which is why he made the deal to leave in exchange for a pardon.

The Dems are doing the right thing, investigating.  And Trump is stone walling because he's scared of the same thing happening to him that happened to Nixon...that is, the more the public sees his conduct and crimes, the more they will demand his removal.   The reason Trump is daring them to impeach now is because he would rather battle based on the Mueller report then further investigative results.  Which is sort of funny since the Mueller report was really damning, but the AG carried the water as best he could.

Hard to imagine the Dems losing a fair election since they wouldnt have lost a fair election last time either.  If their nominee can avoid a scandal, they should waltz into the White House (famous last words I know).  One thing I hope the Dems take seriously though, they have a lot of good candidates but there can only be one nomimee....Id like to see some of them drop out early and run for Senate.  Trump's war on Congress shows how important the Senate is.  Congress can't be gutted.

As angry as I am to see what Trump and his GOP cronies did to the conservative movement, its only hope is a massive Dems victory in Congress & the White House.  Only then will the GOP look in the mirror and hopefully come back from the brink and be a respectable conservative option.

[kelownabomberfan]

23 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

.

Hard to imagine the Dems losing a fair election since they wouldnt have lost a fair election last time either. 

and if they follow this advice and blame everyone but themselves for the loss, they'll lose again.  Whoever wins, be it Joe or Bernie, has to stump in states like Wisconsin and Michigan.  Leave Jayz and Beyoncé behind, and go do some real electioneering.  

23 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

If their nominee can avoid a scandal, they should waltz into the White House (famous last words I know). 

They also need some policies that American voters can get behind.  What policies are there out there other than "Orange Man bad".  Not that isn't a huge weapon, but they might not want to rely on that as their only platform plank.

23 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

One thing I hope the Dems take seriously though, they have a lot of good candidates but there can only be one nomimee....Id like to see some of them drop out early and run for Senate.

Like who?  Warren?  Booker?  Harris?  Klobuchar?  Beto?  Buttigieg? Castro? Gillibrand?  Hickenlooper? Inslee? Ryan?

23 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

As angry as I am to see what Trump and his GOP cronies did to the conservative movement, its only hope is a massive Dems victory in Congress & the White House.  Only then will the GOP look in the mirror and hopefully come back from the brink and be a respectable conservative option.

So the Dems were nearly wiped out and they didn't seem to change much if anything.  Do you really think the Republicans will change anything?  I agree that they need to be kicked really hard in the pants before they change anything, but will this be enough?

[Fatty Liver]

3 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I don't know what you are saying, but here's what I am saying: Free speech is incredibly important.  As Jim Carrey says, too many people have paid for this right in blood.  We can review it to ensure that we get it right, but the bigger picture is so important.  People should have the right to say what they think.  We lose that, we lose everything.

 

 

This is sweet but it's just sentimental drivel from a movie that actually perpetuates the myth that America at heart is a wonderful country populated with good and just people.  Meanwhile in another galaxy, they're usually dropping bombs by the thousands on people living in mud huts in order to steal their resources and prop up the US economy.  It's propagandi bereft of reality, but it's good for a woody or two,

 

They didn't show the part where Carrey, is clubbed down, carted away and deported back to Canada!

[kelownabomberfan]

2 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

This is sweet but it's just sentimental drivel from a movie that actually perpetuates the myth that America at heart is a wonderful country populated with good and just people. 

if you saw this scene in context, what Carrey's character is doing is standing up to the US government who at the time were destroying people's reputation in Hollywood for their apparent beliefs and participation in Communist activities.  I thought it was really a great scene, as their actions were truly an abuse of the First Amendment, to not allow these people to have their own views, and to destroy their entire careers over it.  A truly dark time in American history.  I really dislike communism, but I support 100% your right to talk about it.

2 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

 

They didn't show the part where Carrey, is clubbed down, carted away and deported back to Canada!

Ha ha yeah that was in the Extras section of the DVD.  Carrey's commentary was hilarious.

[Wideleft]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I don't know what you are saying, but here's what I am saying: Free speech is incredibly important.  As Jim Carrey says, too many people have paid for this right in blood.  We can review it to ensure that we get it right, but the bigger picture is so important.  People should have the right to say what they think.  We lose that, we lose everything.

 

This is hopefully my last comment on this.  People say this like it is something we already have and they're afraid of losing it.  We don't - we can't utter threats, we can't libel people and we can't yell fire in a theatre among a whole lot of other things we can't say or do.

It's really a disingenuous talking point;  the goal of which is to let people with power retain their power through whatever speech necessary.  If you pay attention to the loudest whiners about this, it's usually white men who are so incapable of articulating messages humanely that they need the protection of so called "free speech" that has never existed in the way they thought it did.