Zontar Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 Warren couldn't even win her own state. Smoking crater.
Zontar Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 Biden is a Dem version of Romney 2012. Not loved or even particularly liked by his own party . Inspires no one. Just better than the other candidates so they have no choice and that's an indictment of the party not the man.
Wanna-B-Fanboy Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 31 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: Trump only won because he cheated. And the moderate Republicans who thought they were voting for a traditional republican see the truth now. Biden really has to do nothing to win. Deliver the moderates. As someone else said, his VP can be the fighter. Bernie has soooo much baggage. and if Joe is like Hilary that’s a good sign. She whooped trump. Cheating helped. But it didn't deliver the win. People were angry at the status quo and wanted real change that's why he won. HRC was the embodiment of the status quo. The establishments choice. Didn't fly then- sure as hell ain't going to fly this time around. TUP- I hope you are right, I just don't see it. 17to85 1
Mark H. Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 6 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said: Trump only won because he cheated. And the moderate Republicans who thought they were voting for a traditional republican see the truth now. Biden really has to do nothing to win. Deliver the moderates. As someone else said, his VP can be the fighter. Bernie has soooo much baggage. and if Joe is like Hilary that’s a good sign. She whooped trump. For a guy who follows it all as much as you do, you should know better. That kind of thinking from Biden will guarantee a loss, IMO.
17to85 Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 You think two senile old white men on the campaign is going to inspire anyone? Trumptards will vote for dear leader no matter what, lots of others will stay home.
The Unknown Poster Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Mark H. said: For a guy who follows it all as much as you do, you should know better. That kind of thinking from Biden will guarantee a loss, IMO. There's fighting and then there is getting into the weeds which is what Trump wants. I think Hilary did a good job of this actually. She stayed above the dirt but hit back when needed. Biden has a aw shucks personality and I dont think he needs to call Trump names to show the difference between the two. Mark H. 1
The Unknown Poster Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, 17to85 said: You think two senile old white men on the campaign is going to inspire anyone? Trumptards will vote for dear leader no matter what, lots of others will stay home. Thats why the running mates are going to be important. its why so many people think Trump wants to replace Pence. At this point two old white guys is inevitable. Its a matter of Biden or Bernie. It should be Warren but it wont be. I honestly believe Bernie delivers progressives who maybe dont usually vote, but Biden gets the black vote and the moderates. If Bernie's supporters wont vote for Biden, if they help Trump win, are they democrats? Either guy, whichever one loses, *must* full throated endorse the other and campaign for that person. I think Biden would. Im not sure about Bernie.
Wideleft Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 9 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said: Aaaand queue up the "Quip Pro Joe" slogans.... Trump and fox are going to beat the living **** out of Joe.... 4 more years of trump if he is the nomination. Anyone watching Fox is already baked in as a Trump supporter so it won't accomplish much. Trump has no room to talk on being incomprehensible.
Wideleft Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 8 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said: Biden is like Hillary Clinton- except he's less popular. And his fighting days are over- this ain't Ali in his prime- this is Ali vs Holmes. Biden's toast. Do you have any data to back that up, because I'm not convinced it's true. Being a white man is an automatic +10 in America (and many parts of Canada). The Democrats absolutely need the black and suburban white women votes and Biden (for whatever reason) brings those. He's far from my first choice, but I'm pulling for him if he's the nominee.
The Unknown Poster Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Wideleft said: Do you have any data to back that up, because I'm not convinced it's true. Being a white man is an automatic +10 in America (and many parts of Canada). The Democrats absolutely need the black and suburban white women votes and Biden (for whatever reason) brings those. He's far from my first choice, but I'm pulling for him if he's the nominee. Agreed. Warren is the obvious choice and look what happened. The second she dared stand up to Bernie and Bloomberg, she plummeted. Americans like their women to get in the kitchen and keep their mouths shut. Hilary was unbelievably successful and popular when viewed through that reality. A Bernie nomination risks moderates voting for Trump or staying home and risks black voters staying home. Can he deliver enough new votes to make up for it? No. I like Bernie's policies too. But I'd like them more as real options and not the crazy outside which it will be forever if he's the nominee. Not to mention, Biden is more likely to help with Congressional seats too. Bernie winning but losing the House and not winning the Senate doesnt accomplish much. Wideleft 1
sweep the leg Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 33 minutes ago, 17to85 said: You think two senile old white men on the campaign is going to inspire anyone? Trumptards will vote for dear leader no matter what, lots of others will stay home. Voter turnout in some states for their primary was double what it was in 2016. Voting against Trump will be enough of a factor to get a good turnout. Wideleft, bustamente, Wanna-B-Fanboy and 2 others 2 3
The Unknown Poster Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, sweep the leg said: Voter turnout in some states for their primary was double what it was in 2016. Voting against Trump will be enough of a factor to get a good turnout. Plus, Im hoping the Dems are united. We havent got Obama in whatsoever. Him campaigning for the nominee will be big. Clintons too, will help. Warren and whomever else loses, campaigning for the nominee is big also. Perhaps Bernie can make a backroom deal to endorse Biden in return for some policy initiatives if Biden wins. Wideleft 1
do or die Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 Biden is simply the "business as usual" choice for the lobbyists and donor class. He won't rock the boat. Naturally the minute Sanders started to look like he might run away with it.....the ole establishment forces brought the money and endorsements flowing, just before Super Tuesday. Loosing Texas, in particular has put a brake on Sanders's momentum. Biden actually looked wide awake, speaking after the vote, last nite.....he is alright when married to the teleprompter, but speaking off the cuff, is a challenge. The VP slot for him is vital. CodyT, Wideleft and The Unknown Poster 3
Zontar Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, 17to85 said: Trumptards will vote for dear leader no matter what, lots of others will stay home. Weird because in 2016 the GOP essentially ordered party members not to vote for Trump and get behind Bush or Rubio and we're ignored . Democrats order it's candidates and members not to support Sanders and get behind Biden and they all pretty much fall in line and obey. Talk about 'tards?
Wideleft Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, do or die said: Biden is simply the "business as usual" choice for the lobbyists and donor class. He won't rock the boat. Naturally the minute Sanders started to look like he might run away with it.....the ole establishment forces brought the money and endorsements flowing, just before Super Tuesday. Loosing Texas, in particular has put a brake on Sanders's momentum. Biden actually looked wide awake, speaking after the vote, last nite.....he is alright when married to the teleprompter, but speaking off the cuff, is a challenge. The VP slot for him is vital. Not to mention the Dow Jones rose 600 points this morning largely due to last night's results. It all sucks, but Trump has proven it can be much, much worse (speaking as a progressive who always has to vote Liberal federally).
do or die Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, Zontar said: Weird because in 2016 the GOP essentially ordered party members not to vote for Trump and get behind Bush or Rubio and we're ignored . Democrats order it's candidates and members not to support Sanders and get behind Biden and they all pretty much fall in line and obey. Talk about 'tards? Well, nobody really wanted to "get behind" morons like Jeb Bush, Rubio, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, et al.
The Unknown Poster Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, do or die said: Well, nobody really wanted to "get behind" morons like Jeb Bush, Rubio, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, et al. Not to mention, the poster made a great case for the stupidity of the alt right. Wideleft, JCon and blue_gold_84 3
The Unknown Poster Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 Bloomberg dropping out and endorsing Biden.
Zontar Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, do or die said: Well, nobody really wanted to "get behind" morons like Jeb Bush, Rubio, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, et al. But party establishment did . Jeb was darling 1. Rubio 2. Edited March 4, 2020 by Zontar
do or die Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said: Bloomberg dropping out and endorsing Biden. Warren sure helped put the kebosh on him Wideleft 1
do or die Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Zontar said: But party establishment did . Jeb was darling 1. Rubio 2. Misplaced affection. Actual (angry) Republican voters came through with a protest vote.
The Unknown Poster Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, do or die said: Misplaced affection. Actual (angry) Republican voters came through with a protest vote. And look what happened. A lot of people embrace the "anti-politician". But as much as we criticize, its a pretty skilled job. Look what happens when an idiot falls up into a key position. Wideleft 1
TrueBlue4ever Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) Lots I don't know about the inner workings of American politics, but from my viewpoint: Trump and the Russian bots want to push the "they'll cheat Bernie out of it" narrative on Twitter, and they created the Biden scandal around impeachment, which seems to have legitimately hurt Biden at the start of the primary push. This tells me they fear Biden as the opponent a lot more than Sanders, so that leaves me wanting to root for Biden. As has been said, a Biden-Trump election focusses on Trump and what America's soul wants to be. Not sure that results in a Biden win, but it will certainly crystallize what America really is (if 2016 didn't already open eyes as to just how misogynistic and racist and old-boy establishment capitalist it truly is). A Sanders-Trump campaign is much more about capitalism vs socialism, and the US has been pretty well indoctrinated to hate socialism as Evil Empire old state Russia and Cuba communism. Vastly overblown, but simple fear tactics are remarkably effective in the USA in swaying the general populace. Don't agree with those who say that the safe Biden choice guarantees a loss where we need a radical Bernie shift to energize progressives. Young people flock to Bernie, and that may be the future at some point, but young people for all their (some will call it "woke") activism don't for the most part follow that up with actually getting out and voting. Older folks get out and vote, which is why the old white men so often are left standing. Dems need women and the African-American vote, and Biden carries that. Hopefully Bernie supporters won't be butt-hurt sore if he loses again and refuse to vote. They cried foul because Hillary took all the superdelegates even if Bernie led the polls, but the simple fact is that she still beat him 34-23 in primary contests, had a 450 delegate lead if you remove the superdelegates, and won the popular vote by 3.7 million in their run-off. Bernie backers need to get over the "he got cheated last time, and they'll screw him over again this time" mantra, he lost no matter how you look at it. He has created a movement, but right now America does not need radical to fight radical. Biden keeps pushing the "re-claim America's soul" narrative and it can work. Let AOC lead the march towards and more social democracy when she has a few more years under her belt - America could much more easily buy into her campaign than Bernie's IMO if that is the future. As for dirt, all Trump really can play up with Biden is Burisma and covering for his offspring who got a cushy job because of who his dad is, and do Republicans really want to push that narrative in a one-on-one fight, given what is happening with Ivanka, Jared, Don Jr. and Eric? Biden could easily say, "OK, let's open up that can of worms, but for both candidates - show us all how clean your familial dealings through the Presidency have been" and Trump can't refuse to play along but continue to push for transparency from Joe. With Bernie, it will be "socialism will destroy everything that America is" and Repubs are remarkable - I won't call them patriots - but flag-wavers for sure, who chafe at the idea that anything star spangled red, white and blue is less than the most awesome thing ever. Also, Obama will heartily endorse his former VP as the Dem pick, and it won't feel fake. Same with the Clintons. Dems need a recovery election right now (a course correction from Trumpism rather than a true "left vs right" debate) and Biden can offer that safety. But I agree that his running mate needs to be the spark for progressive change for the future. Warren might fit the bill nicely there. Edited March 4, 2020 by TrueBlue4ever Wanna-B-Fanboy, Wideleft, blue_gold_84 and 1 other 2 1 1
iHeart Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said: Bloomberg dropping out and endorsing Biden. eh I never thought he had a chance anyway
The Unknown Poster Posted March 4, 2020 Report Posted March 4, 2020 This is what terrifies trump. He’s a racist president running against someone who, for whatever reason, can excite the black vote. And those republican voters sickened by trump can see a way towards voting for Biden. It really should be a land slide for Biden Even if he has some gaffes or forgets something or baubles a line, it’s not like he’s running against a great orator like clinton It’s trump, who has basic issues with the English language Wideleft 1
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