US Politics

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, pigseye said:

It's a good read, do yourself a favor and read it, then decide, just go right to the end, pages 13 - 15 and you will see just how ridiculous the charges were to begin with.

 

He lied to the FBI about his interactions with the Russian ambassador.  The DOJ's efforts now to dismiss are not apples to apples.  He received lesser charges due to his cooperation and plea bargain.  Its like having someone for murder and agreeing to assault as a plea bargain and a year later saying, well, assault wasnt that bad so let him go, forgetting he actually committed murder.  Exaggerated example obviously.

Do you now believe that lying to the FBI should not be a crime?  Is that what you're saying?  And also that being an agent of a foreign power without properly reporting that should be ok too?  

Why dont you read what the Judge said about Flynn?  Or does that not matter (the Judge must be on it it too, right)?

[pigseye]

8 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

He lied to the FBI about his interactions with the Russian ambassador.  The DOJ's efforts now to dismiss are not apples to apples.  He received lesser charges due to his cooperation and plea bargain.  Its like having someone for murder and agreeing to assault as a plea bargain and a year later saying, well, assault wasnt that bad so let him go, forgetting he actually committed murder.  Exaggerated example obviously.

Do you now believe that lying to the FBI should not be a crime?  Is that what you're saying?  And also that being an agent of a foreign power without properly reporting that should be ok too?  

Why don't you read what the Judge said about Flynn?  Or does that not matter (the Judge must be on it it too, right)?

Flynn knew they had the tapes of his conversation with the Russian Ambassador and even said to McCabe before the FBI interview that they knew what he said on it.

Duh?????

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Flynn knew they had the tapes of his conversation with the Russian Ambassador and even said to McCabe before the FBI interview that they knew what he said on it.

Duh?????

Which makes lying even stupider, doesnt it?

[pigseye]

9 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Which makes lying even stupider, doesnt it?

Unless Flynn is the dumbest person on the planet or he didn't believe he was lying when he said it, now which do you think it was?

 

[17to85]

It's stupidity through arrogance. The entirety of the Trump mafia have never once had to face consequences so they don't believe in them. 

Corrupt actions like this only reinforce their notions that they are above the law. 

I do not care which side of the political spectrum you sit on, this blatant and obvious corruption and abuse of power is appalling. This is how dictatorships start. Except it's usually someone smart and capable pulling it off, not a gaggle of idiots falling ass backwards into it because it helps the selfish rich people steal more public money.

[The Unknown Poster]

13 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Unless Flynn is the dumbest person on the planet or he didn't believe he was lying when he said it, now which do you think it was?

 

So let me understand this.

You believe that Flynn should be allowed to lie to the FBI if he didnt think he was lying even though you just said Flynn knew the FBI knew was lying?

That is a fact in this case.  He lief.  Even Pence and Trump said he lied.  And a judge ordered the call he lied about released but the White House blocked it.  It would be so easy to help Flynn's story if they released it.  But they wont.  Because he lied.

This isnt about whether Flynn is guilty because its a fact he is.  He is because he broke the law.  And more obviously because he admitted it to a judge.  Your issue is you think he should be allowed to break the law...why, because he's one of your Trump bunch?

[bustamente]

Democrats better hope RBG makes it till the new year as Turtle has stated that even with an election he will fill that seat with a republican judge, that will make the Cavanaugh hearings look tame

Edited May 8, 2020 by bustamente

[JCon]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So let me understand this.

You believe that Flynn should be allowed to lie to the FBI if he didnt think he was lying even though you just said Flynn knew the FBI knew was lying?

That is a fact in this case.  He lief.  Even Pence and Trump said he lied.  And a judge ordered the call he lied about released but the White House blocked it.  It would be so easy to help Flynn's story if they released it.  But they wont.  Because he lied.

This isnt about whether Flynn is guilty because its a fact he is.  He is because he broke the law.  And more obviously because he admitted it to a judge.  Your issue is you think he should be allowed to break the law...why, because he's one of your Trump bunch?

There are no morals in the Alt-Reich. 

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So let me understand this.

You believe that Flynn should be allowed to lie to the FBI if he didnt think he was lying even though you just said Flynn knew the FBI knew was lying?

That is a fact in this case.  He lief.  Even Pence and Trump said he lied.  And a judge ordered the call he lied about released but the White House blocked it.  It would be so easy to help Flynn's story if they released it.  But they wont.  Because he lied.

This isnt about whether Flynn is guilty because its a fact he is.  He is because he broke the law.  And more obviously because he admitted it to a judge.  Your issue is you think he should be allowed to break the law...why, because he's one of your Trump bunch?

Because it totally pwns you libs! Take THAT! TEACH YOU TO CARE ABOUT ANYONE OTHER THAN YOURSELF!

[pigseye]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So let me understand this.

You believe that Flynn should be allowed to lie to the FBI if he didnt think he was lying even though you just said Flynn knew the FBI knew was lying?

That is a fact in this case.  He lief.  Even Pence and Trump said he lied.  And a judge ordered the call he lied about released but the White House blocked it.  It would be so easy to help Flynn's story if they released it.  But they wont.  Because he lied.

This isnt about whether Flynn is guilty because its a fact he is.  He is because he broke the law.  And more obviously because he admitted it to a judge.  Your issue is you think he should be allowed to break the law...why, because he's one of your Trump bunch?

No because of what is outlined in the decision to drop the charges, it's as clear as the nose on your face.

[pigseye]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Because it totally pwns you libs! Take THAT! TEACH YOU TO CARE ABOUT ANYONE OTHER THAN YOURSELF!

No it's about both sides going way over the line to prove their points and be dammed with the causalities and lives ruined along the way. Both sides are guilty and the swamp really does need to be drained of the lot of them. 

[17to85]

Just now, pigseye said:

No because of what is outlined in the decision to drop the charges, it's as clear as the nose on your face.

It sure is clear, rules for thee, but not for me. 

The DOJ under Barr has done nothing but shield Trump and his cronies. If there is any justice in the world they will all be thrown in prison for their actions.

[17to85]

1 minute ago, pigseye said:

No it's about both sides going way over the line to prove their points and be dammed with the causalities and lives ruined along the way. Both sides are guilty and the swamp really does need to be drained of the lot of them. 

yet you support the filthiest muckiest swamp creatures and instead complain about the flies buzzing around the top. Makes sense. 

Yes clean up all the corruption, but start with the most corrupt.

Edited May 8, 2020 by 17to85

[pigseye]

Just now, 17to85 said:

It sure is clear, rules for thee, but not for me. 

The DOJ under Barr has done nothing but shield Trump and his cronies. If there is any justice in the world they will all be thrown in prison for their actions.

Perhaps but they have justified legal grounds for doing so. Politics is a dirty game but you shouldn't be able to fabricate **** and ruin peoples lives just to get your point across. 

Flynn is a bloody nobody in the big picture. 

[pigseye]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

yet you support the filthiest muckiest swamp creatures and instead complain about the flies buzzing around the top. Makes sense. 

Yes clean up all the corruption, but start with the most corrupt.

Even the swamp creatures are supposed to get a fair shake when it comes to the law. 

[17to85]

11 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Even the swamp creatures are supposed to get a fair shake when it comes to the law. 

I agree, so why is the DOJ going against fair practices? 

Doj is not supposed to be about politics. Justice is blind right? Can you honestly claim they are being impartial?

[The Unknown Poster]

24 minutes ago, pigseye said:

No because of what is outlined in the decision to drop the charges, it's as clear as the nose on your face.

So again, to understand this correctly, you believe its okay for Flynn to lie to the FBI, which is a fact, and get away with it because he's did it for Trump?

Spare me the DOJ nonsense when Barr has proven to work for the interests of Trump and not for the interests of justice.  

You're saying its totally okay to lie to the FBI.  You're as partisan as they come and sadly, as an alt right, its...well, sad.

[The Unknown Poster]

I hope all Americans understand this.  The fix is in.  But it can be defeated by voting.  

Quote

On the day that the Flynn case was dropped, Trump spoke by telephone to Putin. He told reporters that he and Putin had agreed that the investigation of Russian interference was a“hoax”—and that he and Putin had undertaken to work together more closely from here on. “I wouldn’t be surprised,” Trump said to the reporters, “if you see a lot of things happen over the next number of weeks.” 

 

[Tracker]

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I agree, so why is the DOJ going against fair practices? 

Doj is not supposed to be about politics. Justice is blind right? Can you honestly claim they are being impartial?

If you close one eye, turn the lights way down and squint, you can see the logic in Barr's actions.

[pigseye]

8 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I agree, so why is the DOJ going against fair practices? 

Doj is not supposed to be about politics. Justice is blind right? Can you honestly claim they are being impartial?

Did you even read the decision, I gave you the link.

There were no material grounds for the investigation of Flynn to continue. There was no evidence of collusion or conspiracy. This was just two over zealous FBI agents trying to make a name for themselves, and they did, both were removed from the investigation for being idiots. 

[pigseye]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

So again, to understand this correctly, you believe its okay for Flynn to lie to the FBI, which is a fact, and get away with it because he's did it for Trump?

Spare me the DOJ nonsense when Barr has proven to work for the interests of Trump and not for the interests of justice.  

You're saying its totally okay to lie to the FBI.  You're as partisan as they come and sadly, as an alt right, its...well, sad.

That's not what's in the legal brief, read it or don't bother replying.

[17to85]

3 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Did you even read the decision, I gave you the link.

There were no material grounds for the investigation of Flynn to continue. There was no evidence of collusion or conspiracy. This was just two over zealous FBI agents trying to make a name for themselves, and they did, both were removed from the investigation for being idiots. 

The man plead guilty... twice.... isn't this about justice? He is guilty, he said it himself. 

Basically your argument boils down to "they dug too far, should have stopped sooner before they found his crimes"

[17to85]

Even reading the document it's even stupider than that. He wants to withdraw his guilty plea, ok let him have his day in court and let justice prevail... except here comes the DOJ which says "nah we don't think they can prove it so we are going to just drop it" 

In what world is that justice? Barr is the judge of everything now? 

[pigseye]

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The man plead guilty... twice.... isn't this about justice? He is guilty, he said it himself. 

Basically your argument boils down to "they dug too far, should have stopped sooner before they found his crimes"

Yup, it's legal jargon, he lied about something that wasn't material to the investigation. Like getting the dates mixed up. 

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Did you even read the decision, I gave you the link.

There were no material grounds for the investigation of Flynn to continue. There was no evidence of collusion or conspiracy. This was just two over zealous FBI agents trying to make a name for themselves, and they did, both were removed from the investigation for being idiots. 

You're wrong.  Stop ignoring facts.

Quote

During the 2016 election, the Obama administration declined to hold Russia to account for its intervention. That’s a story in itself. On December 29, 2016, however, the Obama administration did at last announce punitive sanctions on Russia.

The imminence of these sanctions triggered a flurry of communications between the Russian government and the Trump campaign. The Russian ambassador to the United States, Sergey Kislyak, reached out to Flynn on December 28. Flynn was vacationing in the Dominican Republic, but on December 29, he spoke multiple times with Kislyak.

 

On December 30, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced that Russia would not respond to the sanctions. That same day, Trump tweeted his thanks: “Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!” Another round of calls followed between Flynn and Kislyak.

On January 15, 2017, Vice President–elect Mike Pence appeared on CBS’s Face the Nation to assure the country that Flynn and Kislyak had not discussed the Obama sanctions. “He had sent a text to the Russian ambassador to express not only Christmas wishes but sympathy for the loss of life in the airplane crash that took place,” Pence said, referring to a December 25, 2016, accident that had killed 92 people. “It was strictly coincidental that they had a conversation. They did not discuss anything having to do with the United States’ decision to expel diplomats or impose censure against Russia.”

Pence’s statement was not true. Flynn lied to the FBI about the calls. Back in 2017, Pence insisted that Flynn had lied to him too.

Flynn’s lies mattered because they may have concealed a deal between Trump and Russia over sanctions.

The Flynn-Kislyak call was recorded by U.S. intelligence agencies. The judge in Flynn’s case ordered that the call be released. The Department of Justice successfully resisted the order by arguing that the recording was irrelevant to Flynn’s conviction and sentencing.

And so Congress and the public remain unaware of what exactly was said to dissuade the Russians from retaliating in December 2016, and what—if anything—the Russians asked for in return. Congress and the public remain ignorant about whether Flynn acted on his own or was directed by President-elect Trump. Congress and the public remain uncertain whether Pence had himself been deceived when he delivered a false reassurance on CBS in January 2017—or whether he was part of the deceit.

So it was just a coincidence that Flynn talked to Kislyak "multiple times" to wish him a Merry Christmas, right?

And was Pence lying when he said Flynn lied to him?  Was Trump lying when he said Flynn lied to Pence?  Are you suggesting that Flynn did NOT lie, told Trump and Pence he did NOT lie and they both publicly said he did?  How does that make sense?

You're clinging to the fact Barr, who has repeatedly shown to be Trump's lawyer, not a real AG, is dropping the case and you're ignoring the actual facts.  You can believe that lying to the FBI is no big deal.  You can believe back-channelling to Putin is no big deal.  But you cannot deny the facts that those things are wrong, he was caught, he admitted it and the only difference today is Barr deciding that, even though Flynn is guilty, it doesnt matter.