US Politics

[do or die]

Trump was holding that bible, upside down.   Kinda symbolic.

[The Unknown Poster]

Tucker might be evil. But he’s not stupid. He knows trump is going to lose.  

[do or die]

Flip side about my post, where the Bishop criticizes Trump for his bible stunt.

Headline from my friends at Gateway Pundit:

Unhinged Episcopal Bishop Calls in to CNN to Trash President Trump for Holding Bible without Her Permission — SAYS NOTHING ABOUT CRIMINALS WHO TORCHED CHURCH!

[Mr Dee]

That’s a horrible site.

[The Unknown Poster]

18 hours ago, bustamente said:

 

These  Lincoln Project videos are absolutely awesome.  

[TrueBlue4ever]

13 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Hitler was enormously popular with the German masses, they let him do whatever he thought best, Trump leaves only division and disrespect in his wake.

Long rant coming. Ignore if you wish, just need to get this off my chest, not looking for any response necessarily.

Let's just sit back and remember that 62,000,000 Americans voted for him last time. I was in Arizona in February when he held a rally, and there was a buzz around the city when he came in. He has disgusted and divided his country in the eyes of many within and many outside the USA but he is still popular with a large segment of Americans, and those he is popular with find him very popular. I suspect there will be less fence-sitters this election than last, and I would like to think that even the Bernie Bros. who are ticked about their guy losing to Biden will take a step back and realize that this election is all about "do you want Trump or not?"

Yesterday he crossed a line by declaring war of some of his citizens and utilizing the military to take control. That speech could be seen as very frightening if you accept the narrative that he has been pushing for a fascist state. There was no veiled text in his call for law and order against Antifa and all the other agitators who he sees as threatening his America. But if you accept the narrative that the fake media has been out to get him and the deep state has tried to take him out and sabotage him despite a legitimate election victory, then that image of him walking to re-claim sacred holy ground that had been vandalized by thugs the night before is a powerful unifying image, and the willingness to stand up to and dominate the bullies who tried to destroy the country and harm innocent Americans sends a message of strength, guts, courage. (Forget that he tear-gassed peaceful protestors to clear the park and had armed guards escorting him, his state-owned media at FOX and AON will spin it as quelling an insurrection).

If you believe that your America is great again once those violent black people (who proved it once again that they want to destroy all peace-loving whites with their actions, and don't respect law and order as proven by their attacks on the police) are put in their place, then yesterday was another triumphant stand against them, just like the election in 2016 was. It is chilling to write this, but even more chilling to think that what I just laid out is the mindset of 10's of millions of Americans right now, and not just the fringe elements. And if you don't subscribe to this view, then are you not more than a little afraid of how readily the police and military were willing to do Trump's bidding and clear the streets? Images of media being shot at, peaceful protestors being maced and tear-gassed and beaten with shields and clubs, people standing on the porches of their homes being told "get inside now" by military soldiers parading down the street in their Humvees, and then hearing "light 'em up" and getting shot at when they were already off the street (but not inside, so not good enough) filled my screen, but I think they will be drowned out by the "law and order" crowd who see this as justifiable and proper action to "dominate" the rebellion. These remind me of the images of the army moving in to Tiananmem Square - at least it would not surprise me if that's where this is headed.

But Americans, Dem or Repub, do like to agree on one thing - that America is the best nation in the world. They have loved to be labelled as cowboys, those brave individualists who stand up to tyranny and play by their own rules. It's mirrored in the slogan "America First". So I think that a whole lot of them give Trump not just a pass but an A+ grade for his action, because it reinforces how tough he is (and, by transitive property for his supporters, they are). There was a line in Captain America where the Red Skull said "I'm not sure if arrogance is a purely American trait, but you certainly do it better than anyone else", and I fear that arrogance has blinded many Americans from seeing what is really going on.

The ironic thing is just how blindly hypocritical Americans who follow Trump are too. Government should not interfere, but use all the force of the Government to control the people (at least those who don't line up with my ideology). We demand the cities open up and we have the individual freedom to go get a haircut, and will storm a capitol building with my AR 15 for intimidation purposes to get what we want, and no Government can stop us, but how dare those unarmed protestors speak out in anger about racial injustice in the wrong way with vandalism (although peaceful resistance by taking a knee at a sporting event without violence was also "the wrong way" so maybe it's the message and not the means that's really irks those who complain), and the Government should step in and stop it. The COVID lockdown is unconstitutional and my safety is my own business and my choice if I go out and risk catching or spreading the virus, but hey let's impose a nationwide curfew because I am in danger from those thugs, looters, Antifa, etc. My rights are enshrined in the Constitution, and no Government can take those away, but hey let's violate the freedom of the press, freedom of speech, and freedom of lawful assembly if they stand for something other than what I stand for, and let the Government use the full power of the military to facilitate the taking away of those rights.

The next "funny" irony will be the 2nd Amendment. "Patriots" have always bastardized the meaning of the Amendment to justify an individual's right to own automatic weapons, armor-piercing bullets, Kevlar, and the like to ensure their personal safety and freedom, when the original intent was to keep a well-regulated civilian militia to protect the country, and act as a police force when necessary, especially against a tyrannical Government. Well, if there was ever a situation that mirrored the original intent of the Constitutional Amendment, would it not be arming oneself to defend against Government forces (be they police or military) attacking unarmed civilians to "dominate" citizens in the name of "one law"? You wonder how quickly Trump would try to revoke that right if he felt their was a threat of insurrection from the masses who were prepared to fight his firepower with their own? And would his followers jump on board with that infringement on their liberty if they suddenly felt that perceived threat and abdicated their power to him? "My right to guns does not extend to someone's else's equal right to guns, because they disagree with me, so yeah the government can take away their guns and put in restrictive laws, I agree with that restriction because it's in my best interest (until it isn't its the part they don't see). Other dictators have been able to suppress freedom by armed force when necessary, without fear of reprisal because their citizens did not have the same access to weaponry that the Government did. In the US it's a whole different ball game. Wonder how that will play out?

Edited June 2, 2020 by TrueBlue4ever

[Tracker]

‘Wow!’ CNN’s Anderson Cooper is appalled by the real reason Trump went to St. John’s Church

On Monday evening, President Donald Trump appeared to cause mass disruption and chaos as federal police cleared peaceful protesters with forceful tactics outside the White House ahead of his walk to the nearby St. John’s Church.

And when CNN’s Kaitlan Collins told Anderson Cooper on air of the reported reason behind this move, the host was shocked and appalled.

“Sources are telling my colleague Kevin Liptak that, in part, the reason the president made this trip outside the gates of the White House — a really rare trip, where you do not often see the president walk out of the front door of the White House, walk across Lafayette Square, to St. John’s — was driven, in part, that he was upset by coverage of the fact that he had been rushed to the underground bunker on Friday night during the protests that you saw breaking out here, in front of the White House,” she said.

“Oh my God!” said Cooper, rolling his eyes. “Wow! We are in trouble. This country is being led by a man … he was taken to a bunker, and you know, he’s hiding in a bunker, and he’s embarrassed that people know that. So what does he have to do? He has to sic police on peaceful protesters so he can make a big show of being, you know, the little big man, walking to a closed down church. And then, you know, he always talks about the world laughing — that the world is laughing at the governors right now. They’re not laughing at the governors, they’re standing in horror at what is happening. The only people that the world is laugh at is the president of the United States.”

[Tracker]

‘Very proud of themselves’: Senior WH official says Trump team was ‘celebrating’ tear gas stunt

The Trump White House is “celebrating” Monday evening’s gassing of protestors in Lafayette Park to clear the area so the President could walk to St. John’s Church to hold up a bible for a photo-op. President Donald Trump made the decision to hold a Rose Garden speech during which he threatened to deploy the Military throughout the country to “quell” protestors demonstrating over the police killing of George Floyd, then march to the historic house of worship.

“One senior aide was exuberantly telling friends the photograph of [Trump] holding a Bible in front of the church that had been attacked by vandals was an ‘iconic’ moment for the president,” Axios’ Jonathan Swan reports.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/very-proud-of-themselves-senior-wh-official-says-trump-team-was-celebrating-tear-gas-stunt/

Edited June 2, 2020 by Tracker

[Tracker]

Arlington police ‘reevaluating’ agreement with DC police after officers were used ‘for a purpose not worthy of our mutual aid obligations’

On Monday, June 1, police from Arlington, Virginia (a Washington, D.C. suburb) helped police in the nation’s capital control large protests demanding justice for George Floyd. But Arlington officers, according to Washington television station WUSA 9 (a CBS-affiliation station) are now “reevaluating” their “agreement with” Washington law enforcement because of their actions on behalf of President Donald Trump.

Washington police have been widely criticized for using violent force against peaceful protestors in order to clear the way for Trump to speak at St. John’s Episcopal Church and rally his base with a photo op. And Arlington police, according to WUSA, see that as a misuse of law enforcement.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/arlington-police-reevaluating-agreement-with-dc-police-that-used-officers-for-a-purpose-not-worthy-of-our-mutual-aid-obligations/

 

[Tracker]

Episcopal Bishop ‘Outraged’ Trump Tear-Gassed Protesters to Use ‘Our Church as a Prop’

The bishop who oversees St. John’s Episcopal Church, which President Donald Trump visited on Monday evening shortly after police used tear gas and flash-bang grenades to a clear a path for him, was “outraged” that the president would use that place of worship for a photo-op on Monday night.

Speaking with Washington Post reporter Michelle Boorstein, Episcopal Bishop Mariann Budde, the diocese of Washington, D.C., said that neither she nor the rector in charge of the church—which suffered fire damage during Sunday evening’s protests—were informed in advance of the visit, nor were they told “that they would be clearing with tear gas so they could use one of our churches as a prop.”

Budde continued: “Holding a bible, one that declares that God is love and when everything he has said and done is to enflame violence. I am beyond. We need moral leadership and he’s done everything to divide us and has just used one of the most sacred symbols of the Judeo-Christian tradition.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/episcopal-bishop-outraged-trump-tear-gassed-protesters-to-use-our-church-as-a-prop?ref=home

[The Unknown Poster]

It really is sickening to see how much support Trump has.  But a few things we know are fact.

Trump lost the popular vote by quite a lot.  He was polling (yeah I know) to lose the election all the way through.  He would have lost even with Russian interference.  And when the Grab 'em tape came out, he was finished (the only time Trump ever made a statement of apology and looked like a very very defeated man, begging for a second chance).

We know the Comey boner sunk Hilary (not debating that many didnt like Hilary, she was going to win) which was forced by NY FBI loyal to Rudy G.  

And knowing all that, that was Trump who was seen as a blustery, arrogant, celebrity.  But also seen by many as a brilliant businessman (which he know is not true) and outsider who would drain the swamp (also not true) and a man of the people and not an elitist (very not true).  There were many people willing to give him a chance vs Hilary who represented a political dynasty.

What's changed this time is we know what Trump is.  Im not sure he has done anything to generate NEW support.  He had the evangelicals last time (and surely at least *some* of them now know the truth and may not vote or all if they wont vote for a Dem).  He had the white nationals and racists.  Are there MORE racists this time that will increase his base?  Maybe.  But I dont think largely.  

The GOP has always known that if everyone who wants to vote CAN vote, if they make voting easier, if they encourage MORE people to vote, that they lose.  Every single time.  The potential gains are much much larger on the Democrat side.

So what can we predict?  We can predict that barring something wild, Biden easily beats Trump.  But what can happen to change that?  A major health issue for Biden, even better cheating by Trump, voter intimidation, voter suppression, manufactured scandal (and there WILL be October surprises).

Let's assume for a moment all goes right and Biden wins.  What happens next depends on how much he wins by.  A narrow victory (possible knowing Trump will cheat and suppress as much as possible) and Trump will question the results potentially leading to a constitutional crises (the plan would likely be to contest key districts and take it to SCOTUS where he likely loses based on the Chief Justice being a moderate but who knows and if RBG dies before then, SCOTUS will hand Trump his dictatorship).

If Trump accepts the loss (or has no choice but to), what does he do between Election Day and Inauguration Day. That will be scary.  

My fear is two-fold.  The protests and riots we're seeing now will look like a picnic compared to what will happen on election day.  And what will happen between election day and inauguration day.

Trump might like that.  If he wins and its due to cheating, people WILL take to the streets.  Allowing Trump to "dominate" them, declare martial law, find some 200 year old laws to provide himself with absolute power and we have a Fourth Reich.  

If he loses I could see him calling upon his supporters to not accept the results and not allow the election to be "stolen".  What happens when Trump motivates tens of millions of racist gun nuts to seize power on his behalf?  Assuming he loses and assuming law enforcement and military abide their oaths and take orders from Biden, order will eventually be restored but at what cost.  What happens if a couple of Trump loving states throw their support behind him?

Is there a legitimate potential for a civil war?  For a separation of the union?

Scary times ahead folks.

[Tracker]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

It really is sickening to see how much support Trump has.  But a few things we know are fact.

Trump lost the popular vote by quite a lot.  He was polling (yeah I know) to lose the election all the way through.  He would have lost even with Russian interference.  And when the Grab 'em tape came out, he was finished (the only time Trump ever made a statement of apology and looked like a very very defeated man, begging for a second chance).

We know the Comey boner sunk Hilary (not debating that many didnt like Hilary, she was going to win) which was forced by NY FBI loyal to Rudy G.  

And knowing all that, that was Trump who was seen as a blustery, arrogant, celebrity.  But also seen by many as a brilliant businessman (which he know is not true) and outsider who would drain the swamp (also not true) and a man of the people and not an elitist (very not true).  There were many people willing to give him a chance vs Hilary who represented a political dynasty.

What's changed this time is we know what Trump is.  Im not sure he has done anything to generate NEW support.  He had the evangelicals last time (and surely at least *some* of them now know the truth and may not vote or all if they wont vote for a Dem).  He had the white nationals and racists.  Are there MORE racists this time that will increase his base?  Maybe.  But I dont think largely.  

The GOP has always known that if everyone who wants to vote CAN vote, if they make voting easier, if they encourage MORE people to vote, that they lose.  Every single time.  The potential gains are much much larger on the Democrat side.

So what can we predict?  We can predict that barring something wild, Biden easily beats Trump.  But what can happen to change that?  A major health issue for Biden, even better cheating by Trump, voter intimidation, voter suppression, manufactured scandal (and there WILL be October surprises).

Let's assume for a moment all goes right and Biden wins.  What happens next depends on how much he wins by.  A narrow victory (possible knowing Trump will cheat and suppress as much as possible) and Trump will question the results potentially leading to a constitutional crises (the plan would likely be to contest key districts and take it to SCOTUS where he likely loses based on the Chief Justice being a moderate but who knows and if RBG dies before then, SCOTUS will hand Trump his dictatorship).

If Trump accepts the loss (or has no choice but to), what does he do between Election Day and Inauguration Day. That will be scary.  

My fear is two-fold.  The protests and riots we're seeing now will look like a picnic compared to what will happen on election day.  And what will happen between election day and inauguration day.

Trump might like that.  If he wins and its due to cheating, people WILL take to the streets.  Allowing Trump to "dominate" them, declare martial law, find some 200 year old laws to provide himself with absolute power and we have a Fourth Reich.  

If he loses I could see him calling upon his supporters to not accept the results and not allow the election to be "stolen".  What happens when Trump motivates tens of millions of racist gun nuts to seize power on his behalf?  Assuming he loses and assuming law enforcement and military abide their oaths and take orders from Biden, order will eventually be restored but at what cost.  What happens if a couple of Trump loving states throw their support behind him?

Is there a legitimate potential for a civil war?  For a separation of the union?

Scary times ahead folks.

America is there already.

[Fred C Dobbs]

21 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Arlington police ‘reevaluating’ agreement with DC police after officers were used ‘for a purpose not worthy of our mutual aid obligations’

On Monday, June 1, police from Arlington, Virginia (a Washington, D.C. suburb) helped police in the nation’s capital control large protests demanding justice for George Floyd. But Arlington officers, according to Washington television station WUSA 9 (a CBS-affiliation station) are now “reevaluating” their “agreement with” Washington law enforcement because of their actions on behalf of President Donald Trump.

Washington police have been widely criticized for using violent force against peaceful protestors in order to clear the way for Trump to speak at St. John’s Episcopal Church and rally his base with a photo op. And Arlington police, according to WUSA, see that as a misuse of law enforcement.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/arlington-police-reevaluating-agreement-with-dc-police-that-used-officers-for-a-purpose-not-worthy-of-our-mutual-aid-obligations/

 

Arlington County pulled their police out of Washington last night:

Quote

Press release from the Arlington County Government:

June 1, 2020

 

At the direction of the County Board, County Manager and Police Chief, all ACPD officers left the District of Columbia at 8:30 tonight. The County is re-evaluating the agreements that allowed our officers to be put in a compromising position that endangered their health and safety, and that of the people around them, for a purpose not worthy of our mutual aid obligations.

https://patch.com/virginia/arlington-va/arlington-withdraws-police-district-columbia

Edited June 2, 2020 by Fred C Dobbs
Never mind, It's in the previous link.

[The Unknown Poster]

25 minutes ago, Tracker said:

‘Very proud of themselves’: Senior WH official says Trump team was ‘celebrating’ tear gas stunt

The Trump White House is “celebrating” Monday evening’s gassing of protestors in Lafayette Park to clear the area so the President could walk to St. John’s Church to hold up a bible for a photo-op. President Donald Trump made the decision to hold a Rose Garden speech during which he threatened to deploy the Military throughout the country to “quell” protestors demonstrating over the police killing of George Floyd, then march to the historic house of worship.

“One senior aide was exuberantly telling friends the photograph of [Trump] holding a Bible in front of the church that had been attacked by vandals was an ‘iconic’ moment for the president,” Axios’ Jonathan Swan reports.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/very-proud-of-themselves-senior-wh-official-says-trump-team-was-celebrating-tear-gas-stunt/

Oh, its going to be iconic alright.  It will be iconic 100 years from now too.  The night the President ordered his own people attacked by federal officers because his ego was bruised.

[The Unknown Poster]

22 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Arlington police ‘reevaluating’ agreement with DC police after officers were used ‘for a purpose not worthy of our mutual aid obligations’

On Monday, June 1, police from Arlington, Virginia (a Washington, D.C. suburb) helped police in the nation’s capital control large protests demanding justice for George Floyd. But Arlington officers, according to Washington television station WUSA 9 (a CBS-affiliation station) are now “reevaluating” their “agreement with” Washington law enforcement because of their actions on behalf of President Donald Trump.

Washington police have been widely criticized for using violent force against peaceful protestors in order to clear the way for Trump to speak at St. John’s Episcopal Church and rally his base with a photo op. And Arlington police, according to WUSA, see that as a misuse of law enforcement.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/arlington-police-reevaluating-agreement-with-dc-police-that-used-officers-for-a-purpose-not-worthy-of-our-mutual-aid-obligations/

 

I do wonder if, as this continues, we will see authority groups (law enforcement, military) begin to openly question the orders from the White House.  If States refuse to allow federal military to act against citizens and Trump tries to order them in, I suspect a lot of hand-wringing by some senior officers.

[HardCoreBlue]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Tucker might be evil. But he’s not stupid. He knows trump is going to lose.  

Tucker Carlson is promoting violence. At some point down the road my hope is he and others of his ilk are held accountable for their actions and words. For all you vocal and non vocal MAGAts out there, there will be a day you will have to crawl back under the rock you came from that was temporary lifted up by this deranged idiot and his deranged administration. It’s coming. Take your hate and racism dressed up in religion and freedom and gtfo.

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Tucker Carlson is promoting violence. At some point down the road my hope is he and others of his ilk are held accountable for their actions and words. For all you vocal and non vocal MAGAts out there, there will be a day you will have to crawl back under the rock you came from that was temporary lifted up by this deranged idiot and his deranged administration. It’s coming. Take your hate and racism dressed up in religion and freedom and gtfo.

Really, FOX NEWS should have their license pulled since they had admitted they are "entertainment" and not news.  Maybe the next admin.

[TrueBlue4ever]

27 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

It really is sickening to see how much support Trump has.  But a few things we know are fact.

Trump lost the popular vote by quite a lot.  He was polling (yeah I know) to lose the election all the way through.  He would have lost even with Russian interference.  And when the Grab 'em tape came out, he was finished (the only time Trump ever made a statement of apology and looked like a very very defeated man, begging for a second chance).

We know the Comey boner sunk Hilary (not debating that many didnt like Hilary, she was going to win) which was forced by NY FBI loyal to Rudy G.  

And knowing all that, that was Trump who was seen as a blustery, arrogant, celebrity.  But also seen by many as a brilliant businessman (which he know is not true) and outsider who would drain the swamp (also not true) and a man of the people and not an elitist (very not true).  There were many people willing to give him a chance vs Hilary who represented a political dynasty.

What's changed this time is we know what Trump is.  Im not sure he has done anything to generate NEW support.  He had the evangelicals last time (and surely at least *some* of them now know the truth and may not vote or all if they wont vote for a Dem).  He had the white nationals and racists.  Are there MORE racists this time that will increase his base?  Maybe.  But I dont think largely.  

The GOP has always known that if everyone who wants to vote CAN vote, if they make voting easier, if they encourage MORE people to vote, that they lose.  Every single time.  The potential gains are much much larger on the Democrat side.

So what can we predict?  We can predict that barring something wild, Biden easily beats Trump.  But what can happen to change that?  A major health issue for Biden, even better cheating by Trump, voter intimidation, voter suppression, manufactured scandal (and there WILL be October surprises).

Let's assume for a moment all goes right and Biden wins.  What happens next depends on how much he wins by.  A narrow victory (possible knowing Trump will cheat and suppress as much as possible) and Trump will question the results potentially leading to a constitutional crises (the plan would likely be to contest key districts and take it to SCOTUS where he likely loses based on the Chief Justice being a moderate but who knows and if RBG dies before then, SCOTUS will hand Trump his dictatorship).

If Trump accepts the loss (or has no choice but to), what does he do between Election Day and Inauguration Day. That will be scary.  

My fear is two-fold.  The protests and riots we're seeing now will look like a picnic compared to what will happen on election day.  And what will happen between election day and inauguration day.

Trump might like that.  If he wins and its due to cheating, people WILL take to the streets.  Allowing Trump to "dominate" them, declare martial law, find some 200 year old laws to provide himself with absolute power and we have a Fourth Reich.  

If he loses I could see him calling upon his supporters to not accept the results and not allow the election to be "stolen".  What happens when Trump motivates tens of millions of racist gun nuts to seize power on his behalf?  Assuming he loses and assuming law enforcement and military abide their oaths and take orders from Biden, order will eventually be restored but at what cost.  What happens if a couple of Trump loving states throw their support behind him?

Is there a legitimate potential for a civil war?  For a separation of the union?

Scary times ahead folks.

If Trump loses, I don't think he pushes as much as he is pushed by the GOP to go through the courts to claim the election (with the Bush v Gore precedent) and have the votes discounted. They have more to hold on to than him as they are career politicos. For him it is a game show starring him, and if it is more effort than it is worth to carry on, he walks out on his own terms. If that Supreme Court intervention does not work, I do not see him starting an insurrection. His followers may well protest, and there may be a lot of residual violence, but Trump is not going to put himself at the forefront of it, IMO.

Why? Look at his history. In business, he always talked a tough game, would threaten lawsuits, would not pay his bills, but when push came to shove he would settle and pay out of pocket, conceding defeat in the lawsuits against him, and buy his way out of it. He'd give in, and the only "win" was that he would exhaust the other side enough to take a lesser amount to end the squabble. And he's declared bankruptcy 6 times to "re-finance", not caring what damage he's left in his wake but not staying around to clean up the mess or fight and carry on and rebuild.

I suspect what he will do is sow discord amongst the public with his rhetoric until inauguration day, not to try and overturn the result but merely to provide distraction and cover while he silently feathers his nest on the way out. He will not bother with the "peaceful transition of power" not as a revolt but simply because he doesn't care to clean up shop and turn over the keys before he leaves. To him, it's easier to leave the destruction, shrug and say "here's the damage deposit, just easier and less work for me on the way out" and not care how he leaves his supporters hanging (THAT'S when they'll finally realize they've been conned all along, when the payoff they've been waiting for doesn't come in and it's obvious he's fled town - that's how all con men operate). Since he doesn't answer to the people any more, and they cannot help feed his ego, screw them.

His only real concern after his defeat will be "now that I'm on the clock, how do I grab what I can on the way out?" He may or may not pardon his buddies. Remember how many people he leaves high and dry? If his political allies cannot help him in the business world, who cares about what they sacrificed to get him to where he was? Cost of doing business. Roger Stone who? If releasing Stone helps Trump later, then he gets out. If not, why bother? Trump demands loyalty but gives none in return, so I would not be surprised to see him walk away from those he has hinted (promised) to pardon. The only pardon he cares about will be his own, or anyone who will be a part of his next venture. Trump does not care about the fascist revolution he has started, he only likes the power he personally derives from it, so I don't see him leading a rebellion if he loses, he just skips town with the gold and his supporters stand around saying "what do we do now, dear leader? Dear Leader? Anybody seen him?" Think Hitler's exit in his bunker or the other members of the Gestapo sneaking off to Argentina and leaving the rank and file soldiers to face judgment at Nuremburg.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

If Trump loses, I don't think he pushes as much as he is pushed by the GOP to go through the courts to claim the election (with the Bush v Gore precedent) and have the votes discounted. They have more to hold on to than him as they are career politicos. For him it is a game show starring him, and if it is more effort than it is worth to carry on, he walks out on his own terms. If that Supreme Court intervention does not work, I do not see him starting an insurrection. His followers may well protest, and there may be a lot of residual violence, but Trump is not going to put himself at the forefront of it, IMO.

Why? Look at his history. In business, he always talked a tough game, would threaten lawsuits, would not pay his bills, but when push came to shove he would settle and pay out of pocket, conceding defeat in the lawsuits against him, and buy his way out of it. He'd give in, and the only "win" was that he would exhaust the other side enough to take a lesser amount to end the squabble. And he's declared bankruptcy 6 times to "re-finance", not caring what damage he's left in his wake but not staying around to clean up the mess or fight and carry on and rebuild.

I suspect what he will do is sow discord amongst the public with his rhetoric until inauguration day, not to try and overturn the result but merely to provide distraction and cover while he silently feathers his nest on the way out. He will not bother with the "peaceful transition of power" not as a revolt but simply because he doesn't care to clean up shop and turn over the keys before he leaves. To him, it's easier to leave the destruction, shrug and say "here's the damage deposit, just easier and less work for me on the way out" and not care how he leaves his supporters hanging (THAT'S when they'll finally realize they've been conned all along, when the payoff they've been waiting for doesn't come in and it's obvious he's fled town - that's how all con men operate). Since he doesn't answer to the people any more, and they cannot help feed his ego, screw them.

His only real concern after his defeat will be "now that I'm on the clock, how do I grab what I can on the way out?" He may or may not pardon his buddies. Remember how many people he leaves high and dry? If his political allies cannot help him in the business world, who cares about what they sacrificed to get him to where he was? Cost of doing business. Roger Stone who? If releasing Stone helps Trump later, then he gets out. If not, why bother? Trump demands loyalty but gives none in return, so I would not be surprised to see him walk away from those he has hinted (promised) to pardon. The only pardon he cares about will be his own, or anyone who will be a part of his next venture. Trump does not care about the fascist revolution he has started, he only likes the power he personally derives from it, so I don't see him leading a rebellion if he loses, he just skips town with the gold and his supporters stand around saying "what do we do now, dear leader? Dear Leader? Anybody seen him?" Think Hitler's exit in his bunker or the other members of the Gestapo sneaking off to Argentina and leaving the rank and file soldiers to face judgment at Nuremburg.

 

Trump is a bully who threatens lawsuits but never follows through because he cant handle a deposition. I think he'd take the election to SCOTUS because he wouldnt have to say anything.  And he desperately needs to avoid being a citizen again because he and perhaps his family are going to be inundated with criminal investigations.

And I think a lot of the GOP cant stand him.  They just love power more than they hate trump.  If Trump loses, they will be rats off the sinking ship and he'll be alone in the wilderness.  Especially if its a big loss.  GOP will see the way the wind is blowing and running harder to the left and becoming the part of racists will guarantee the end of the party.  Plus, Trump likely forms his own party anyway.  GOP will have to move to the centre to have a hope, especially if they see the future of the Dems as a further left-leaning party.  The battle for power will be in the middle.

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[17to85]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

Zuckerberg is just the epitome of a nerd who doesn't understand human feelings. Everything I know about the guy tells me he's really an ******* who doesn't know how to interact with people normally. 

[Brandon]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Zuckerberg is just the epitome of a nerd who doesn't understand human feelings. Everything I know about the guy tells me he's really an ******* who doesn't know how to interact with people normally. 

So a typical guy in IT then?  

Why do people think that if someone is mega-rich that they are someone that the general public should listen and actually a give a **** on what they say. 

[The Unknown Poster]

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

5 minutes ago, Brandon said:

So a typical guy in IT then?  

Why do people think that if someone is mega-rich that they are someone that the general public should listen and actually a give a **** on what they say. 

Because you don't get rich without having some influence somewhere, so the more rich, the greater the perception that you have influence, and people who want to be rich too will want to listen to you to see how you did it and follow in your footsteps. Just a theory.

[HardCoreBlue]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Zuckerberg is just the epitome of a nerd who doesn't understand human feelings. Everything I know about the guy tells me he's really an ******* who doesn't know how to interact with people normally. 

To your point my guess is he scores very low on his EQ and quite high on his IQ.  It’s been shown a persons EQ is a much better indicator for their behaviour than their IQ. That’s why high performing organizations place more emphasis on EQ than IQ. A certain level of IQ is needed but  high performing workplaces hire more on attitude. As John Maxwell put it. ‘People  may hear your words, but they feel your attitude.’