US Politics

[Bigblue204]

41 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah only one party is out there trying to over turn elections... Don't give me the both sides ****. It's just creating a false equivalency and trying to downplay the utter crap that the republicans are trying to get away with. 

Are you also suggesting that Trump didn't break any laws? Because anyone else with as many classified documents in their private property as Trump had would have been locked away instantly never mind even getting a trial... and that's just the most blatant thing he's done. 

100% no. I don't understand why people refuse to see that an American president will not ever be sent to jail. That sets a precedent that corrupt system wants no part of. Regardless of what you see in the media.

And once again, 2 things can be true at the same time. Saying the dems are bad does not automatically = repubs are good. This dumb ass binary that people operate in is the problem. And until people start to understand rich donors donate to both sides, things won't change.

I have a hard time understanding how people like you assume that what I said somehow translates to Trump is innocent....honestly...how do you get there?

You're right (afawk anyway) that one party is trying to mess up that "democracy" down there. But if you somehow think that's where the corruption ends...you got some homework to do. Most presidents should be put on trail for war crimes. Democrats brought in 3 strikes. No one fixed the poison water issue in flint. Etc etc.

Just to clarify, in case you somehow get confused by what I'm saying. Republicans are mostly **** heads. Democrats are mostly **** heads. They're BOTH apart of a horribly corrupt system. I'm in no way taking away from the crimes of anyone...thinking that is imo ******* stupid, ignorant, and a huge ******* problem. If I'm being honest. People who think that way are as much of a problem as people who see past what Trump has done and maybe....(well maybe not) just as blinded by "their side".

34 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

So what do you charge Biden with?

You having a hard time with reading comprehension? Re-read what I wrote and try again.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Bigblue204

[bustamente]

Putting a former POTUS in jail will lump the United States with the various Banana Republics in the world and I don't think AG Garland has the stomach for being associated with that. Now charging him is a possibility but Trump will never see the inside of a jail cell for his role in the insurrection.

[bustamente]

Ways and Means Committee are meeting tomorrow and it looks like the House Democrats will try to release all or a summary of Trumps taxes. 

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

100% no. I don't understand why people refuse to see that an American president will not ever be sent to jail. That sets a precedent that corrupt system wants no part of. Regardless of what you see in the media.

And once again, 2 things can be true at the same time. Saying the dems are bad does not automatically = repubs are good. This dumb ass binary that people operate in is the problem. And until people start to understand rich donors donate to both sides, things won't change.

I have a hard time understanding how people like you assume that what I said somehow translates to Trump is innocent....honestly...how do you get there?

You're right (afawk anyway) that one party is trying to mess up that "democracy" down there. But if you somehow think that's where the corruption ends...you got some homework to do. Most presidents should be put on trail for war crimes. Democrats brought in 3 strikes. No one fixed the poison water issue in flint. Etc etc.

Just to clarify, in case you somehow get confused by what I'm saying. Republicans are mostly **** heads. Democrats are mostly **** heads. They're BOTH apart of a horribly corrupt system. I'm in no way taking away from the crimes of anyone...thinking that is imo ******* stupid, ignorant, and a huge ******* problem. If I'm being honest. People who think that way are as much of a problem as people who see past what Trump has done and maybe....(well maybe not) just as blinded by "their side".

You having a hard time with reading comprehension? Re-read what I wrote and try again.

So what you’re saying here is we need to agree with you on all of what you’re saying here when specifically talking of Donald Trump and wanting him held accountable for his illegal behaviours and if we don’t agree with you, we’re ignorant and part of the problem by only stating one side? So in essence we’re ******, he’s bad but so is everyone else and everyone needs to state that, the system is corrupt there is nothing anyone can do and stop suggesting Trump should go to jail, it’s not going to happen and it actually would be bad for all of us. Yea?

Well you can live in that space all you want and believe that’s the only reality but it’s a lot more complex than you put it here so using the word ignorant is a bit misguided imo.

[Tracker]

Jan. 6 Committee Says Donald Trump Associates Tried To Bribe Witnesses

WASHINGTON — The House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection said Monday that associates of former President Donald Trump tried to bribe at least one of the people it asked to testify.

The committee has previously said Trump contacted witnesses prior to their testimony, but at the latest hearing, Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.) detailed an apparent effort by associates of the former president to dissuade a witness from testifying with a cushy job.

“We’ve learned that a [witness] was offered potential employment that would make her, quote, ‘financially very comfortable’ as the date of her testimony approached, by entities that were apparently linked to Donald Trump and his associates,” Lofgren said.

“These offers were withdrawn or didn’t materialize as reports of the content of her testimony circulated,” she added. “The witness believed this was an effort to affect her testimony, and we are concerned that these efforts may have been a strategy to prevent the committee from finding the truth.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jan-6-committee-donald-trump-witnesses_n_63a0b1f1e4b0aeb2ace65914

[17to85]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

100% no. I don't understand why people refuse to see that an American president will not ever be sent to jail. That sets a precedent that corrupt system wants no part of. Regardless of what you see in the media.

And once again, 2 things can be true at the same time. Saying the dems are bad does not automatically = repubs are good. This dumb ass binary that people operate in is the problem. And until people start to understand rich donors donate to both sides, things won't change.

I have a hard time understanding how people like you assume that what I said somehow translates to Trump is innocent....honestly...how do you get there?

You're right (afawk anyway) that one party is trying to mess up that "democracy" down there. But if you somehow think that's where the corruption ends...you got some homework to do. Most presidents should be put on trail for war crimes. Democrats brought in 3 strikes. No one fixed the poison water issue in flint. Etc etc.

Just to clarify, in case you somehow get confused by what I'm saying. Republicans are mostly **** heads. Democrats are mostly **** heads. They're BOTH apart of a horribly corrupt system. I'm in no way taking away from the crimes of anyone...thinking that is imo ******* stupid, ignorant, and a huge ******* problem. If I'm being honest. People who think that way are as much of a problem as people who see past what Trump has done and maybe....(well maybe not) just as blinded by "their side".

You having a hard time with reading comprehension? Re-read what I wrote and try again.

When you both sides things what you are essentially doing is dismissing the difference in severity. Both parties are beholden to corporate interests ahead of the good of the people sure.... but this both sides nonsense is the equivalent of saying yes the Republicans stole a car... but the democrats speed they're all law breakers!

[Bigblue204]

56 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

So what you’re saying here is we need to agree with you on all of what you’re saying here when specifically talking of Donald Trump and wanting him held accountable for his illegal behaviours and if we don’t agree with you, we’re ignorant and part of the problem by only stating one side? So in essence we’re ******, he’s bad but so is everyone else and everyone needs to state that, the system is corrupt there is nothing anyone can do and stop suggesting Trump should go to jail, it’s not going to happen and it actually would be bad for all of us. Yea?

Well you can live in that space all you want and believe that’s the only reality but it’s a lot more complex than you put it here so using the word ignorant is a bit misguided imo.

Again, you're some how coming up with a bunch of stuff I never said lol. This started by someone saying both parties are corrupt...17to85 then questioned that, by asking what Biden is being charged with. I simply stated, being charged/not being charged does not equate to a moral/unmoral person. Many people who have been on the side of justice have been charged with a crime....likewise many  horrible things have been done because it was legal (see slavery). 

My argument has nothing to do with Trump. After I pointed out that breaking/not breaking laws isn't a deciding factor in one's potential for corruption etc....17to85 made the accusation that I must believe Trump is innocent....im assuming because I believe corruption exists on both sides (as history has shown). 

Feel free to go through every post I've ever made. Ive always said Trump is a con man. That's what he's always been. He should be held accountable. I'm not going to suddenly pretend democrats have no issues just because Trump is a pos. I don't care what you believe. But it is my opinion that if you aren't willing to see the corruption on the left both now and in the past, simply because the right is worse, THAT is a problem. A very serious problem.

 

 

Ok I think I understand where you misunderstood me. When i said Trump isn't going to jail. That does not mean, I don't want him to, or that I don't want the justice system to try and get him put away. It absolutely should. That would be the just thing. I said he isn't going to jail, BECAUSE the system is corrupted and it would set a precedent (among other things) that the system can not abide too. I want Trump in jail, but I have no reason to believe a corrupted system is going to follow through.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Bigblue204

[Bigblue204]

22 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

When you both sides things what you are essentially doing is dismissing the difference in severity. Both parties are beholden to corporate interests ahead of the good of the people sure.... but this both sides nonsense is the equivalent of saying yes the Republicans stole a car... but the democrats speed they're all law breakers!

No it isn't. And the dems have major issues. That comparison isn't fair imo. We say things like both are only accountable to the rich/corporations etc....as if that hasn't led to proxy wars and the horrors that come with that. Or over inflation of the for profit jail system. Both political parties have absolutely ruined lives if not just flat out killed people. 

Trump is an absolute idiot in how blatant he's been and is an obvious target, who again...needs to be held accountable. That doesn't mean people on the left aren't involved with just as serious incidents, they're just far better at hiding them or working within the system to get away with it.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Bigblue204

[17to85]

This whole thing started with some yutz both siding it saying Biden should be next... so we mock that and ask what Biden should be charged with and you ride in to trumpet the both sides are bad!! Crap as well. 

You refuse to see that hand waving it away as they're all bad is what allows Republicans to constantly push the envelope with what they get away with. Everyone needs to be held accountable. Period end of discussion. It's not political to say the Republicans are many times worse and need to be dealt with. Start holding people accountable and things will clean up. But you start with the biggest things. 

 

So go ahead, list the awful things democrats are doing that are just as bad as what the Republicans are doing. I'll wait. 

[Bigblue204]

47 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

This whole thing started with some yutz both siding it saying Biden should be next... so we mock that and ask what Biden should be charged with and you ride in to trumpet the both sides are bad!! Crap as well. 

You refuse to see that hand waving it away as they're all bad is what allows Republicans to constantly push the envelope with what they get away with. Everyone needs to be held accountable. Period end of discussion. It's not political to say the Republicans are many times worse and need to be dealt with. Start holding people accountable and things will clean up. But you start with the biggest things. 

 

So go ahead, list the awful things democrats are doing that are just as bad as what the Republicans are doing. I'll wait. 

"If you can't give examples that means it's nothing" is also a bs argument.

Again, show me where I said repubs don't need to be held accountable. I'll wait.

I 100% DID NOT both sides it. I said, Being charged/breaking laws/not breaking laws does NOT EQUATE TO GOODNESS/LAWFULNESS/ANTI CORRUPTION. I've since given examples throughout history that prove that. That's it. That was my original post.

The only time I mentioned trump, was when I was saying he would not be put in jail BECAUSE of corruption.

Everything else is all you people putting words in my mouth. You said I must think trump is innocent. Someone else said I think everyone must agree with me and that because everyone else is bad, no one should be accountable. lol. Read what I said....and tell me where I said everyone is bad so no one should be held accountable. I CAN show you where I said Repubs are worse right now. You seemingly ignore that though. I'm not ever going to back down and give either side a break because one side happens to be worse. That's ridiculous.

It's not both siding anything to say, just because you're not breaking a law doesn't mean your a good person. The most obvious example is Hitler. But there are many more.

It's my opinion that if you become a president of a corrupt nation, you are likely a pretty horrible person in general. There's obviously degrees to that - Trump vs Biden for example. Should Biden be charged with something...not that I'm aware of. Does that mean he's not currently corrupt and deserving of jail time..? I have a hard time believing he isn't.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Bigblue204

[GCn20]

21 hours ago, bustamente said:

The whole American political system is corrupt and that includes both Republicans and Democrats.

Yep, American politics is an absolute cesspool no matter the stripe. Just gross.

[blue_gold_84]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Yep, American politics is an absolute cesspool no matter the stripe. Just gross.

Sure. It's a complete ****-show down there. However, there's a pretty marked difference between being a slimy and corrupt politician and being a slimy and corrupt politician while also being an alleged criminal, irrespective of party.

Trump is alleged to have committed several crimes while in office, which is separate issue from the corruption of elected officials within the political landscape of the United States.

[Tracker]

The 1/6 Committee Has Big Bombshells To Drop

Call records, with the exception of ones that the committee has found relevant to the probe, would likely remain secret as well, according to the chair.

Even so, the panel’s introductory materials gave tantalizing clues about what’s to come. The committee’s executive summary referenced just over 80 of the panel’s interviews and documents collected from 34 agencies or witnesses; among them, Christoffer Guldbrandsen, a documentarian who captured footage of Trump ally Roger Stone, and Bernard Kerik, who advised Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani in his bid to collect evidence to challenge the 2020 results.

The summary also reflects voluminous contacts among key players in Trump’s alleged plot that were not previously known but could be of interest to federal prosecutors. For example, the document describes numerous contacts that then-DOJ officials Jeffrey Clark and Ken Klukowski had with Trump campaign attorney John Eastman in the closing days of 2020 and into early 2021.

The people who should be very nervous about the report are those who were involved in the operational commission of crimes to steal an election. Jeffrey Clark, Roger Stone, Rep. Scott Perry (R-PA), Rudy Guiliani, and Trump’s lawyers and members of his campaign team should expect that evidence of criminal activity will be in the report.

https://www.politicususa.com/2022/12/20/the-1-6-committee-has-big-bombshells-to-drop.html

[17to85]

Still not seeing how you're not both siding the argument. 

[Bigblue204]

51 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Still not seeing how you're not both siding the argument. 

I certainly am now. But my original comment that made you somehow accuse me of assuming trump was innocent, was in no way both siding the argument.

[Wideleft]

3 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

It's my opinion that if you become a president of a corrupt nation, you are likely a pretty horrible person in general. There's obviously degrees to that - Trump vs Biden for example. Should Biden be charged with something...not that I'm aware of. Does that mean he's not currently corrupt and deserving of jail time..? I have a hard time believing he isn't.

You really should answer for this line of discussion.  No way anyone will take you seriously if you don't explain it. 

First of all, the sentences don't square. 

Secondly, it's a bold statement that requires at least some evidence supporting it.

[Bigblue204]

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

You really should answer for this line of discussion.  No way anyone will take you seriously if you don't explain it. 

First of all, the sentences don't square. 

Secondly, it's a bold statement that requires at least some evidence supporting it.

Please take me seriously when I say I don't give two shits about whether or not anyone agrees with me on this board. Your opinions are yours and mine are mine. No one is convincing anyone of anything at this point it seems. Feel free to continue on believing presidents are nice and clean. You have far more faith in humanity than I do.

The sentences square away if you understand that you can be a horrible person do horrible things and never break a law.

 

[Wideleft]

4 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Please take me seriously when I say I don't give two shits about whether or not anyone agrees with me on this board. Your opinions are yours and mine are mine. No one is convincing anyone of anything at this point it seems. Feel free to continue on believing presidents are nice and clean. You have far more faith in humanity than I do.

The sentences square away if you understand that you can be a horrible person do horrible things and never break a law.

 

Then I'm going to ask you for a second time:  What should Biden be charged with?

[Wideleft]

10 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Your opinions are yours and mine are mine.

And Jan. 6 seditionists have their opinions and the FluTruxKlan had their opinions - that doesn't make them right nor does it raise the level of discourse from a deep hole.  Don't get upset if your "opinions" aren't challenged and don't get upset if some of us think they're garbage, because even you seemingly can't defend them.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Wideleft

[Bigblue204]

3 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

And Jan. 6 seditionists have their opinions and the FluTruxKlan had their opinions - that doesn't make them right nor does it raise the level of discourse from a deep hole.  Don't get upset if your "opinions" aren't challenged and don't get upset if some of us think they're garbage, because even you seemingly can't defend them.

I've defended what I've said multiple times. Im not defending, what YOU think I've said. I'm now done. I don't give a **** if you like it or not or if you agree or not. Tough nuts. Enjoy your day.

[17to85]

So what makes Biden a horrible person? Cause honestly he seems to be pretty clean for a guy who has spent that long in then government.  The fact that all the dirt the Republicans can find is about his son says everything.  

So again, just assuming Biden is a shitty person  because both sides. You see where you lost the room right?

[Wideleft]

38 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I've defended what I've said multiple times. Im not defending, what YOU think I've said. I'm now done. I don't give a **** if you like it or not or if you agree or not. Tough nuts. Enjoy your day.

[HardCoreBlue]

32 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Please take me seriously when I say I don't give two shits about whether or not anyone agrees with me on this board. Your opinions are yours and mine are mine. No one is convincing anyone of anything at this point it seems. Feel free to continue on believing presidents are nice and clean. You have far more faith in humanity than I do.

The sentences square away if you understand that you can be a horrible person do horrible things and never break a law.

 

Absolutely true but there are certain people (not just politicians obviously) who do more horrible things than others, who do more horrible things consistently than others and who do more horrible things than others that have a lot more negative impact on people.

Some people are good people who have done horrible things and have learned from doing these horrible things. That's where I would put the masses of people that come from all walks of life. Then there are genuinely horrible people who constantly do horrible things running roughshod over anyone who get in their way with little self-awareness of the grossness of their behaviour, legal and/or illegal. This is where I would place Donald J Trump based on the mountain of information about him (illegal and non illegal behaviours) that is available to the general public that many posters here have shared here over time.   

I don't think most on this board have said nor implied others outside of Trump (left, right or middle of the political spectrum) are squeaky clean and don't deserve scrutiny whether they are under investigation or not.

It just seems Trump is in an exclusive group of having high legal levels of grossness, corrupt and horrible behaviours  mixed in with a mountain of alleged illegal behaviours. To lump others (like Biden for example) who don't fit with this exclusive group can feel like it's downplaying the severity of his actions whether it was meant to do that or not. If Biden does indeed fit into this exclusive group, then it's reasonable to back it up with comparable information we have on Trump reporting on his legal and illegal horrible behaviours.

 

 

[Tracker]

Trump May Have Committed Tens Of Millions Of Dollars In Tax Crimes

Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-TX) of the House Ways and Means Committee said that Trump’s tax returns suggest that he had tens of millions of dollars in unsubstantiated claims.
Rep. Doggett said on CNN, “I think you will see tens of millions of dollars in these returns that were claimed without adequate substantiation. The extent to which the IRS made an effort to get that substantiation, I invite you to look at the reports. But I think you’ll be surprised by how little there is, and I have my doubts that another taxpayer could go into audit and provide as little as was provided here and expect to have a completed audit. 

 

[HardCoreBlue]

40 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Trump May Have Committed Tens Of Millions Of Dollars In Tax Crimes

Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-TX) of the House Ways and Means Committee said that Trump’s tax returns suggest that he had tens of millions of dollars in unsubstantiated claims.
Rep. Doggett said on CNN, “I think you will see tens of millions of dollars in these returns that were claimed without adequate substantiation. The extent to which the IRS made an effort to get that substantiation, I invite you to look at the reports. But I think you’ll be surprised by how little there is, and I have my doubts that another taxpayer could go into audit and provide as little as was provided here and expect to have a completed audit. 

 

Someone has some splaining to do at the irs.