US Politics

[bustamente]

Many indicted tonight but also

 

 

 

[the watcher]

It may have been mentioned earlier but one of the points in this article is that because these charges are at a State level, Trump would not be able to pardon himself and his co- conspirators should he be re-elected. 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/14/donald-trump-georgia-indictment-2020-election

[Wideleft]

4 things revealed by Trump’s Georgia indictment

Analysis by Aaron Blake

Staff writer

August 15, 2023 at 1:38 a.m. EDT

 

(Edited for brevity)

 

1. The ‘co-conspirators’ do get indicted — in Georgia, at least

The biggest way in which this indictment isn’t like the others? The Trump allies it ensnared.

Smith opted this month to bring a case against Trump alone while listing six unnamed (but mostly easily identifiable) associates as unindicted co-conspirators. Willis has gone in a different direction, also indicting 18 others she says took part in the criminal enterprise.

Those 18 include five of the six unindicted co-conspirators from the federal indictment, most notably former New York mayor and federal prosecutor Giuliani, who faces 13 counts of his own.

The others:

• Powell, who is accused of orchestrating a breach of voting machines in Coffee County, Ga.
• Trump lawyer John Eastman, a key figure in the alternate-elector plot
• Trump-aligned lawyer Kenneth Chesebro, another key figure in the alternate-elector plot
• Former Justice Department official Jeffrey Clark, whom Trump aimed to install as acting attorney general and who attempted to get the DOJ to bolster baseless claims about voter fraud

Others of note, who weren’t listed as co-conspirators in the federal indictment, include Meadows, Trump campaign legal adviser Jenna Ellis and state Republican Party Chairman David Shafer.

 

These aren’t the first non-Trump white-collar defendants to be prosecuted for their efforts to overturn the 2020 election — Michigan’s attorney general recently indicted 16 alternate Trump electors, including a former state party chair — but these are the first ones close to Trump.

The indictments could ramp up pressure on the defendants to provide information and possibly even serve as witnesses against Trump, either in Georgia or in the federal case, where charges could still be brought against them.

2. The indictment focuses on false statements, oaths

A core Trump defense in the federal Jan. 6 case is the idea that he was merely exercising free speech.

But that defense won’t work as easily in Georgia, which has a broad prohibition against making “a false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation … in any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of state government.”

 

That law figures heavily in the indictment, with the phrase “false statement” appearing more than 100 times, including as individual counts and as part of the alleged racketeering. (The indictment lists 161 overt acts as part of the latter.) Defendants like Trump and Giuliani are accused of making false statements about voter fraud publicly, in legal filings, in hearings in Georgia and elsewhere.

Another frequently included crime is solicitation of violation of public oath by a public officer. Essentially, this amounts to asking someone to violate their sworn duties, including by asking them to help overturn a legitimate election result. The most notable example: Trump’s Jan. 2, 2021, call to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger (R) during which he told Raffensperger he needed to “find” just enough votes to overturn the result. Meadows was also indicted over his role in the call.

Trump and others, including Giuliani, Eastman and Chesebro, are also charged in the alternate-elector plot with various conspiracies, including to commit forgery, a charge that was also brought against the Michigan alternate electors.

3. The crimes allegedly went well past Jan. 6

One of the more striking details comes in the 38th and 39th counts — the last charges against Trump — which date to Sept. 17, 2021, nearly eight months after Trump left office.

 

The charge has to do with a letter Trump sent to Raffensperger in which he enclosed a report alleging that 43,000 ballots in Atlanta-based DeKalb County were not properly handled using chain-of-custody rules. Trump suggested that Raffensperger “start the process of decertifying the election, or whatever the correct legal remedy is, and announce the true winner.”

The indictment accuses Trump and others of having “corruptly solicited Georgia officials, including the Secretary of State and the Speaker of the House of Representatives, to violate their oaths to the Georgia Constitution and to the United States Constitution by unlawfully changing the outcome of the November 3, 2020, presidential election in Georgia in favor of Donald Trump.”

After Trump left office, many Republicans urged him to stop talking about a “stolen election” for fear it would damage their party in the aftermath of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol. But Trump was unswayed. It wound up costing the GOP in the 2022 election, and now it’s cost Trump in the form of additional charges.

4. The political impact might not be the trial

The prosecution of Trump and the others in Fulton County will stand out for one distinct reason: Unlike the federal trials (unless the rules change), it should be televised.

 

That will seemingly bring a measure of transparency to the high-stakes proceedings and create appointment viewing — just as the House Jan. 6 committee hearings did last year but potentially with even greater numbers.

But unlike the other trials, that spectacle is less likely to play out when it matters politically. The many defendants and Trump’s already crowded legal calendar make this a strong candidate for getting delayed past the 2024 election. Willis says she will ask for a trial date within six months, but that’s ambitious.

That doesn’t mean it won’t matter politically. As noted above, the charges against Trump allies could matter when it comes to how the federal prosecution takes shape. Trump’s attacks on witnesses could create problems under Georgia’s witness intimidation laws, which allow bail only if there is “no significant risk of intimidating witnesses.”

And there remains the possibility of Trump’s winning the 2024 election and facing this trial as a sitting president.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/15/takeaways-trump-georgia-indictment/

[bustamente]

By the time this goes to trial if it goes to trial I think the out of the 18 plus Trump conspirators there will be 10 or less that get tried, there is serious jail time involved here and many of the lesser names are going to flip. As for the trial going through as crazy as it sounds Fani Willis could be fired and a new DA installed who could sweep this all under the rug.

[Wideleft]

5 minutes ago, bustamente said:

By the time this goes to trial if it goes to trial I think the out of the 18 plus Trump conspirators there will be 10 or less that get tried, there is serious jail time involved here and many of the lesser names are going to flip. As for the trial going through as crazy as it sounds Fani Willis could be fired and a new DA installed who could sweep this all under the rug.

Yup.  Maddow mentioned the new law passed by the Georgia State Government that would allow that.

Sickening.

[the watcher]

4 minutes ago, bustamente said:

By the time this goes to trial if it goes to trial I think the out of the 18 plus Trump conspirators there will be 10 or less that get tried, there is serious jail time involved here and many of the lesser names are going to flip. As for the trial going through as crazy as it sounds Fani Willis could be fired and a new DA installed who could sweep this all under the rug.

Can she be fired even though she was elected to the position ?

Here's a Guardian article on her: 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/14/donald-trump-prosecutor-fulton-county-georgia-district-attorney-fani-willis

[bustamente]

1 minute ago, the watcher said:

Can she be fired even though she was elected to the position ?

Here's a Guardian article on her: 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/14/donald-trump-prosecutor-fulton-county-georgia-district-attorney-fani-willis

The optics would look real bad and the cover that Trump has gotten and continues to get from high powered Republicans makes you think that anything is possible. Look no further then what has happened in Florida and what has happened to prosecutors that don't tow the line.

[the watcher]

3 minutes ago, bustamente said:

The optics would look real bad and the cover that Trump has gotten and continues to get from high powered Republicans makes you think that anything is possible. Look no further then what has happened in Florida and what has happened to prosecutors that don't tow the line.

I had thought after the insurrection( or the attempted coup), that America's last hope was their judiciary branch. But I had pretty much given up on that notion. Perhaps this is it's last chance . If she gets booted down the road it's a big statement. I suppose the other way out for Trump and cohorts would be to go after Georgia's extensive RICO law

 

[Wideleft]

17 minutes ago, the watcher said:

Can she be fired even though she was elected to the position ?

Here's a Guardian article on her: 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/14/donald-trump-prosecutor-fulton-county-georgia-district-attorney-fani-willis

The Guardian on the new law:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/05/georgia-brian-kemp-bill-remove-local-prosecutors#:~:text=Georgia governor signs bill that allows removal of district attorneys,-This article is&text=Georgia's governor%2C Brian Kemp%2C signed,be adequately enforcing the law.

[the watcher]

6 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The Guardian on the new law:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/05/georgia-brian-kemp-bill-remove-local-prosecutors#:~:text=Georgia governor signs bill that allows removal of district attorneys,-This article is&text=Georgia's governor%2C Brian Kemp%2C signed,be adequately enforcing the law.

What a F##ked up country. I had totally missed that bit of anti- democratic crap. Thanks.

[iHeart]

 

[bustamente]

Republicans seem to like recording themselves being criminals

 

[Tracker]

Judge Faces Death Threats, Jurors Doxxed Amid Multiple Trump Indictments

“If Trump doesn’t get elected in 2024, we are coming to kill you," a Texas woman allegedly said in a voicemail to U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan.
A woman in Texas was arrested Wednesday after she allegedly threatened to kill the federal judge overseeing an election interference case against former President Donald Trump. The news came just hours after media outlets reported that the purported names and addresses of grand jurors in the Georgia vote tampering indictment had been shared on far-right message boards.

The episodes reflect the charged political divide over the legal whirlwind surrounding Trump and growing concerns about the safety of those involved in prosecuting him. Trump has regularly lambasted special counsel Jack Smith as “deranged” and attacked the judges assigned to his cases. In a message posted on his Truth Social platform earlier this month, he warned: “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!”
Prosecutors said Wednesday that authorities had arrested Abigail Jo Shry, 43, of Alvin, Texas, for allegedly calling the federal courthouse in Washington, D.C., where U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan has chambers. The judge is overseeing Trump’s federal indictment related to his efforts to remain in power, including the events surrounding the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

According to court documents, Shry left a threatening message on Aug. 5, calling the judge a “stupid slave” and saying Chutkan would be “targeted personally, publicly, your family, all of it.” The call was made two days after Trump was arraigned in the Jan. 6 case.

“You are in our sights, we want to kill you,” Shry allegedly said in a voice message. “If Trump doesn’t get elected in 2024, we are coming to kill you.”

Shry also threatened to kill Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas), who, like Chutkan, is Black.  Shry admitted to investigators that she left the message but said she didn’t plan to travel to Washington. She has been jailed in Texas after the court note
Media outlets also reported that on the same day, the purported names and addresses of the grand jurors who indicted Trump in Fulton County, Georgia, this week had been posted on a fringe website alongside threats of intimidation and violence. Unlike in many other states, Georgia publicizes the names of jurors in an attempt to keep criminal proceedings transparent.

The full list of those grand jurors was included on the 98-page indictment released late Monday. Media Matters for America noted that users on the message board had posted a list of the names, calling it a “hit list,” while another wrote that they should be followed and photographed.

[Wideleft]

59 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Judge Faces Death Threats, Jurors Doxxed Amid Multiple Trump Indictments

“If Trump doesn’t get elected in 2024, we are coming to kill you," a Texas woman allegedly said in a voicemail to U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan.
A woman in Texas was arrested Wednesday after she allegedly threatened to kill the federal judge overseeing an election interference case against former President Donald Trump. The news came just hours after media outlets reported that the purported names and addresses of grand jurors in the Georgia vote tampering indictment had been shared on far-right message boards.

The episodes reflect the charged political divide over the legal whirlwind surrounding Trump and growing concerns about the safety of those involved in prosecuting him. Trump has regularly lambasted special counsel Jack Smith as “deranged” and attacked the judges assigned to his cases. In a message posted on his Truth Social platform earlier this month, he warned: “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!”
Prosecutors said Wednesday that authorities had arrested Abigail Jo Shry, 43, of Alvin, Texas, for allegedly calling the federal courthouse in Washington, D.C., where U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan has chambers. The judge is overseeing Trump’s federal indictment related to his efforts to remain in power, including the events surrounding the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

[HardCoreBlue]

2 hours ago, Wideleft said:

Another example that 99% of humans think they are on the right side of truth and goodness. When in fact that percentage is much lower and depends on the issue and severity of the issue. Study after study on terrorist groups consistently find they truly believe what they’re doing is good. We’ve all been guilty of doing this with varying levels of severity but some are way more consistent in where they are at in demonstrating or not demonstrating behaviours based on truth and fact regardless of how they may feel and believe about something.

[bustamente]

Anyone who threatens a Judge, Jury or Lawyers and those threats are proven in court so find themselves in jail, threats are not free speech and it's about people find this out. 

[Sard]

6 minutes ago, bustamente said:

Anyone who threatens a Judge, Jury or Lawyers and those threats are proven in court so find themselves in jail, threats are not free speech and it's about people find this out. 

Uttering threats to some random person is one thing... Uttering threats to interfere with or influence a court proceeding is on a whole other level.  As you say, if it is provable in court (which is pretty easy with the trail of evidence that is out there), then they should definitely be going to jail.  One would hope that it would discourage others from doing the same.

[Tracker]

16 minutes ago, Sard said:

Uttering threats to some random person is one thing... Uttering threats to interfere with or influence a court proceeding is on a whole other level.  As you say, if it is provable in court (which is pretty easy with the trail of evidence that is out there), then they should definitely be going to jail.  One would hope that it would discourage others from doing the same.

That is not the mindset  of fanatics. EVERYONE and EVERYTHING that is against them is interpreted by them as proof of an overwhelmingly powerful but secretive cabal that only an anointed few can recognize.

[Sard]

2 minutes ago, Tracker said:

That is not the mindset  of fanatics. EVERYONE and EVERYTHING that is against them is interpreted by them as proof of an overwhelmingly powerful but secretive cabal that only an anointed few can recognize.

Sadly, you're not wrong.

[HardCoreBlue]

29 minutes ago, Tracker said:

That is not the mindset  of fanatics. EVERYONE and EVERYTHING that is against them is interpreted by them as proof of an overwhelmingly powerful but secretive cabal that only an anointed few can recognize.

Especially disconcerting when they are in positions of power, eg., US Senators.

[the watcher]

9 hours ago, Wideleft said:

Hey, she is completely right. She's bat **** crazy.

[MOBomberFan]

16 hours ago, the watcher said:

Hey, she is completely right. She's bat **** crazy.

World's most self aware MAGA booster

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, MOBomberFan said:

World's most self aware MAGA booster

I was thinking the exact same thing. Finally some great self-awareness, however unfortunately said person didn't use that awareness of themselves to right the ship and present a better version of themselves.

They instead threatened to kill someone because of their bat **** craziness. 

[Mark F]

but the people that plotted the coup, are  not crazy.

and she probably isnt either. just stupid.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Mark F

[Goalie]

Hitching your wagon to a dude who tried to make America Russia is something I'll never understand 

Do these clowns realize that Trump tried to **** democracy?