US Politics

[CodyT]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

YES! Because if you shrug it off as both sides are bad it just enables them to be shitty and keep pushing the boundaries of their shittiness. A republican president tried to overthrow democracy! This isn't both sides, this is one side is a bunch of capitalist neoliberals, the other side is a group of fascists who see Russian dictatorship propped up by oligarchs as a swell idea. 

But both sides amirite?

I mean sure your right in principal.  You're right in the short term. But an overhaul change is required regardless.  Corrupt is still corrupt though. We shouldn't roll over and die because ones less corrupt than the other

I am a second generation ukranian here in Canada. I feel bad for my people because when the war comes to an end the usa will own our beautiful country. Yes, again, the lesser of two evils and necessary But talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Trump was blasted in his cnn town hall for saying he " wanted people to stop dying ". Man, take away whos saying that and he's right. Ukraine is caught in a war between USA and Russia .

[17to85]

1 minute ago, CodyT said:

I mean sure your right in principal.  You're right in the short term. But an overhaul change is required regardless.  Corrupt is still corrupt though. We shouldn't roll over and die because ones less corrupt than the other

I am a second generation ukranian here in Canada. I feel bad for my people because when the war comes to an end the usa will own our beautiful country. Yes, again, the lesser of two evils and necessary But talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Trump was blasted in his cnn town hall for saying he " wanted people to stop dying ". Man, take away whos saying that and he's right. Ukraine is caught in a war between USA and Russia .

If you don't hold politicians accountable they will never change, which us why they push the both sides crap. 

Also, Ukraine is in a war because of Russia.  Russia invaded a sovereign country. Not the USA,  not Nato, Russia. Trumps idea of ending the war is capitulation to an aggressor nation. He was impeached over that in fact. 

[CodyT]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

If you don't hold politicians accountable they will never change, which us why they push the both sides crap. 

Also, Ukraine is in a war because of Russia.  Russia invaded a sovereign country. Not the USA,  not Nato, Russia. Trumps idea of ending the war is capitulation to an aggressor nation. He was impeached over that in fact. 

Then why haven't we held Pelosi or McConnell accountable. Why have we not as a democracy decided that single handedly the most important law we need passed regarding elections is to take the money out. No campaign donations over 100 dollars. Why is this not discussed at all by the politicians.

It should all start right there. No more campaign donations in exchange for back room favours. This is an obvious and logical change. Why are we not livid about that?

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, CodyT said:

Then why haven't we held Pelosi or McConnell accountable. Why have we not as a democracy decided that single handedly the most important law we need passed regarding elections is to take the money out. No campaign donations over 100 dollars. Why is this not discussed at all by the politicians.

It should all start right there. No more campaign donations in exchange for back room favours. This is an obvious and logical change. Why are we not livid about that?

We tried this in Canada only to be reversed by the next gov't of the day. 

[JCon]

But, it's not illegal down in the US. What is illegal? Stealing classified documents and trying to overthrow the gov't. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

9 hours ago, CodyT said:

Ha. Because you can't put him in a box?

Put him here:

9 hours ago, CodyT said:

God, you guys are so predictable. What exactly do you know about him? He has a difference in view of you than covid. What else?

 

9 hours ago, CodyT said:

It's equally frightening for me in your unwavering support of Biden. Imagine the restraint I show without backhanded remarks

I don't see any of this "unwavering support of Biden" here on these forums. He is a deeply flawed candidate, but he is the best of the bunch.  

I think you should let yourself go a bit and add to the political commentary here, it is one sided and could use a fresh perspective. 

 

9 hours ago, CodyT said:

And yet nobody denies that the politicians are involved in insider trading, that the government is run by corporations and politicians take kick backs from the laws they pass. The thought that gains a response from you is that rfk would be an interesting candidate. That's what concerns you. Corruptions everywhere. Heard mentality.People have no sense of critical thinking anymore

it's the political climate these days, money in the form of superpacs have tilted the democracy on it's head. All that you have mentioned are concerns for me- and probably most of the posters on here. RFKjr is not going to change any of that, even if he became POTUS- not sure why you think that would be the case. 

 

9 hours ago, CodyT said:

For you guys it's cnn, for the right wings it's fox news. 

both are terrible, yet you watch both hear what they each say and more importantly what each omit. 

Reporting is in a sad state these days, but there are some great people out there doing great work. 

9 hours ago, CodyT said:

Rfk absolutely seems like a possible option if biden and trump are the standard. Pretty low bar, man

Sure, RFKjr is an option- just a very poor one. 

 

Besides, RFKjr syphons votes and gets trump elected. That is the end game- RFKjr will be used as a useful idiot in this election- regardless of what his platform is. 

[CodyT]

Just now, JCon said:

We tried this in Canada only to be reversed by the next gov't of the day. 

It's disgusting and shameful. And we wonder why people are skeptics of the government. I've had to walk back my thoughts on covid quite a bit-- and thats fine.

 

But what frightened me, and I'm sure others is the facts that I listed previously. 2/3 of congress taking financial contributions from pharmaceuticals. The record profits these companies made. It's hard not to feel the same about the military industrial complex. Somebody's making these weapons, and somebody's getting rich off them. Necessary? That may be. 

But was it necessary in, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Venezuela, Libya, etc etc etc. All in the name of "freedom" 

If there is profit involved it's hard to get behind the government. The western people, Canada included are so busy fighting for their party or their person that we don't even consider the basic flaws in our democracy. Money out of politics? No ******* Brainer. Politicians shouldn't be allowed to make stock exchange trades? No ******* Brainer.

I understand that the democrats are the better party. Bernie Sanders one of my favorite politicians is part of it. But when we  universally agree that corporate runs government, why would people care? 

It's like saying, dad beats me up so I'm going to stay with mom because she just steals from me 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 minute ago, CodyT said:

It's like saying, dad beats me up so I'm going to stay with mom because she just steals from me 

Good analogy- sadly, staying with mom would be the better of the two **** choices. 

[17to85]

Hold everyone accountable,  which is why you need to view things on a scale of how bad they are. 

As I said, both sides is the poison they use to get away with it. If everyone stopped the both sides crap and didn't vote for Republicans after all the **** they tried under Trump and got away with you can be damned sure that politicians would respect voters wishes.

[Tracker]

5 hours ago, CodyT said:

I mean sure your right in principal.  You're right in the short term. But an overhaul change is required regardless.  Corrupt is still corrupt though. We shouldn't roll over and die because ones less corrupt than the other

I am a second generation ukranian here in Canada. I feel bad for my people because when the war comes to an end the usa will own our beautiful country. Yes, again, the lesser of two evils and necessary But talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Trump was blasted in his cnn town hall for saying he " wanted people to stop dying ". Man, take away whos saying that and he's right. Ukraine is caught in a war between USA and Russia .

You are very much in the minority in your opinions regarding the Russian attacks on Ukraine. Appeasement does not guarantee peace- Esst Germany is an example of a puppet government following Russian dictates with thousands of Germans killed and/or imprisoned. Trump has been a Russian asset for a couple of decades and if he was sane, he would have said the way to instantly stop the killings in Ukraine is for the Russians to simply leave. If your logic about the US "owning" Ukraine if the Russians leave was sound, that would have happened in Romania, Chechia, Bulgaria, Poland and so forth, BUT IT HAS NOT!

Edited August 21, 2023 by Tracker

[Mark F]

12 minutes ago, Tracker said:

You are very much in the minority in your opinions regarding the Russian attacks on Ukraine.

not following this, 

is someone saying Ukraine should not defend its legal borders?  Borders set out in a treaty that Russia is a signatory to?  A treaty is just a few decades old?

further to that, Ukraine had nuclear weapons, which they turned over to Russia as part of the treaty.

doubt that Putin would be warring with Ukraine if they still had those.

 

And What would such a person say if Russia invaded Western Canada?  
 

Russian propaganda is everywhere. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mark F

[CodyT]

2 minutes ago, Tracker said:

You are very much in the minority in your opinions regarding the Russian attacks on Ukraine. Appeasement does not guarantee peace- Esst Germany is an example of a puppet government following Russian dictates with thousands of Germans killed and/or imprisoned. Trump has been a Russian asset for a couple of decades and if he was sane, he would have said the way to instantly stop the killings in Ukraine is for the Russians to simply leave. If your logic about the US "owning" Ukraine if the Russians leave was sound, that would have happened in Romania, Chechia, Bulgaria, Poland and so forth, BUT IT HAS NOT!

Ultimately, I too, just want people to stop dying. I don't want my grandparents friends and former neighbour's to be killed. I am in the minority in my belief but not alone. Many ukranians want to see an end to the war and a territorial compromise. Don't get it confused though, I don't believe Russia has any right to the land. I just want innocent civilians, and young men and women to stop dying. Both Russian and Ukranian. 

Many ukranians also on the other hand, carry an immense amount of pride and would rather be killed than share land with the Russians. It is a very complex web. 

There is a lot to unpack with this war, and political and financial motive certainly play a part in it. I am greatful for the American and Canadian populations support, as I believe the masses have really shown up for the ukranian people. You may view me as a constant skeptic, but when there's 140 billion dollars of military weapons someone's profiting and isn't looking for the war to end, or for people to stop dying. Don't quote me on this but black rock and other American banks have already sunk their teeth into the revitalization of Ukraine. For personal gain. 

On the other other side of this, what about the American and Canadian people? The Americans are struggling to get by. In Hawaii I saw the government supplied 700 dollars to each person for aid. 700 bucks lol. 140 billion to fight wars, and 14 million for Hawaii. 

For now Putin is the enemy, but who's next. The USA has been at war since the becoming of its existence. I should be fact checked on that but I *think* literally since its inception

[17to85]

3 minutes ago, CodyT said:

Ultimately, I too, just want people to stop dying. I don't want my grandparents friends and former neighbour's to be killed. I am in the minority in my belief but not alone. Many ukranians want to see an end to the war and a territorial compromise. Don't get it confused though, I don't believe Russia has any right to the land. I just want innocent civilians, and young men and women to stop dying. Both Russian and Ukranian. 

Many ukranians also on the other hand, carry an immense amount of pride and would rather be killed than share land with the Russians. It is a very complex web. 

There is a lot to unpack with this war, and political and financial motive certainly play a part in it. I am greatful for the American and Canadian populations support, as I believe the masses have really shown up for the ukranian people. You may view me as a constant skeptic, but when there's 140 billion dollars of military weapons someone's profiting and isn't looking for the war to end, or for people to stop dying. Don't quote me on this but black rock and other American banks have already sunk their teeth into the revitalization of Ukraine. For personal gain. 

On the other other side of this, what about the American and Canadian people? The Americans are struggling to get by. In Hawaii I saw the government supplied 700 dollars to each person for aid. 700 bucks lol. 140 billion to fight wars, and 14 million for Hawaii. 

For now Putin is the enemy, but who's next. The USA has been at war since the becoming of its existence. I should be fact checked on that but I *think* literally since its inception

God where do you get your talking points? It's a greatest hits of right wing gobbledygook to try and confuse people into supporting their poor positions. Let me guess, it's not guns it's mental health right?

[CodyT]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

God where do you get your talking points? It's a greatest hits of right wing gobbledygook to try and confuse people into supporting their poor positions. Let me guess, it's not guns it's mental health right?

No, it's guns. Lol. I love canadas gun laws. No need for weapons at all 

And to further that -- the Bush administration might be the biggest culprits of all in growing the military industrial industry into gigantic business. So you call me right winged --? Yet I'm a Bernie Sanders traditional lefty. I just don't recognize that party anymore

Edited August 21, 2023 by CodyT

[Mark F]

9 minutes ago, CodyT said:

the becoming of its existence

😂

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mark F

[CodyT]

8 minutes ago, Mark F said:

you can read the treaty here. It is not long.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 3007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

Also….

“At the time of Ukraine’s independence from the Soviet Union in 1991, Ukraine held the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, including an estimated 1,900 strategic warheads, 176 intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs), and 44 strategic bombers. By 1996, Ukraine had returned all of its nuclear warheads to Russia in exchange for economic aid and security assurances, and in December 1994, Ukraine became a non-nuclear weapon state-party to the 1968 nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT). The last strategic nuclear delivery vehicle in Ukraine was eliminated in 2001 under the 1991 Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START). It took years of political maneuvering and diplomatic work.”

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/Ukraine-Nuclear-Weapons#:~:text=At the time of Ukraine's,)%2C and 44 strategic bombers.

 

 

 

What is your point? I already recognize that Russia has violated the terms of several agreements and treaties. I'm telling you I want people to stop getting killed. Tired of innocent 20 year Olds getting shipped off to die. 

Whats the end game here? How long will this war go on? How many people have to die? It's easy to say continue on no matter what, when you don't have a gun in your hand and your home hasn't been blown up.

Has anyone in this group ever even visited Ukraine? 

[17to85]

Honestly they could end the war pretty quickly if they wanted to... Nato could put a boot so far up putins ass they'd knock his teeth out, but they don't want to so instead we get a proxy war. But trying to appease dictators doesn't work. It just enables them.

[CodyT]

20 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Honestly they could end the war pretty quickly if they wanted to... Nato could put a boot so far up putins ass they'd knock his teeth out, but they don't want to so instead we get a proxy war. But trying to appease dictators doesn't work. It just enables them.

Good point. 

[Wideleft]

19 hours ago, CodyT said:

Then why haven't we held Pelosi or McConnell accountable. Why have we not as a democracy decided that single handedly the most important law we need passed regarding elections is to take the money out. No campaign donations over 100 dollars. Why is this not discussed at all by the politicians.

It should all start right there. No more campaign donations in exchange for back room favours. This is an obvious and logical change. Why are we not livid about that?

Adam Schiff of the Democratic Party has introduced an amendment every year since 2013 to address the Republican Controlled Supreme Court's Citizen United ruling.

But they're both equally bad.

13 hours ago, CodyT said:

What is your point? I already recognize that Russia has violated the terms of several agreements and treaties. I'm telling you I want people to stop getting killed. Tired of innocent 20 year Olds getting shipped off to die. 

Whats the end game here? How long will this war go on? How many people have to die? It's easy to say continue on no matter what, when you don't have a gun in your hand and your home hasn't been blown up.

Has anyone in this group ever even visited Ukraine? 

Name me a time when Russia wasn't shipping someone off to die or suffer - wartime or not.

Giving Putin what he wants will not make life better for any Ukrainians who prefer an independent Ukraine.

[Tracker]

21 hours ago, 17to85 said:

YES! Because if you shrug it off as both sides are bad it just enables them to be shitty and keep pushing the boundaries of their shittiness. A republican president tried to overthrow democracy! This isn't both sides, this is one side is a bunch of capitalist neoliberals, the other side is a group of fascists who see Russian dictatorship propped up by oligarchs as a swell idea. 

But both sides amirite?

You stated that Trump tried to overthrow democracy in America. In reality, he has not stopped.

[Tracker]

20 hours ago, CodyT said:

Ultimately, I too, just want people to stop dying. I don't want my grandparents friends and former neighbour's to be killed. I am in the minority in my belief but not alone. Many ukranians want to see an end to the war and a territorial compromise. Don't get it confused though, I don't believe Russia has any right to the land. I just want innocent civilians, and young men and women to stop dying. Both Russian and Ukranian. 

Many ukranians also on the other hand, carry an immense amount of pride and would rather be killed than share land with the Russians. It is a very complex web. 

There is a lot to unpack with this war, and political and financial motive certainly play a part in it. I am greatful for the American and Canadian populations support, as I believe the masses have really shown up for the ukranian people. You may view me as a constant skeptic, but when there's 140 billion dollars of military weapons someone's profiting and isn't looking for the war to end, or for people to stop dying. Don't quote me on this but black rock and other American banks have already sunk their teeth into the revitalization of Ukraine. For personal gain. 

On the other other side of this, what about the American and Canadian people? The Americans are struggling to get by. In Hawaii I saw the government supplied 700 dollars to each person for aid. 700 bucks lol. 140 billion to fight wars, and 14 million for Hawaii. 

For now Putin is the enemy, but who's next. The USA has been at war since the becoming of its existence. I should be fact checked on that but I *think* literally since its inception

This is not about American militant attudes- they will reap what they have sown sooner or later. In the past 200 years, the Russians have invaded and "pacified" pretty much every one of their neighbouring countries and still occupy some of them. Have you forgotten the Holodmor, or that right after WW2, Russians seized and forcibly relocated hundreds of thousands of Lithuanians, Poles, Hungarians, Ukrainians and others to Siberia and in the past few months, the UN has documented over 1000 Ukrainian children who have been kidnapped and given to Russian and Byelorussian homes. If you think capitulation to the Russians will stop the killings, you are deluded beyond words. The experiences of Chechens gives overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

[Tracker]

MARK MEADOWS FLIPPED ON TRUMP AND PROVIDED JACK SMITH 1/6 AND CLASSIFIED DOCS EVIDENCE

Discovery materials show that Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows flipped and provided evidence to Special Counsel Jack Smith in both of the federal criminal cases.
The New York Times reported:

But when prosecutors working for the special counsel, Jack Smith, challenged Mr. Trump’s executive privilege claims before a judge, Mr. Meadows pivoted. Even though he risked enraging Mr. Trump, he decided to trust Mr. Smith’s team, according to a person familiar with the matter. Mr. Meadows quietly arranged to talk with them not only about the steps the former president took to stay in office but also about his handling of classified documents after he left.

Mr. Meadows’s discussions with investigators did not surprise some on the Trump team. Mr. Trump, his advisers, and his allies had been deeply suspicious of Mr. Meadows for months. But having recently received discovery material from Mr. Smith’s team — evidence the prosecutors gathered during the inquiry — the Trump team now has visibility into what Mr. Meadows told investigators, according to people familiar with the matter.

There have been signs for quite a while that Meadows had flipped on Trump. The former White House chief of staff stopped taking Trump’s calls, never went on media to defend the former president, and wasn’t indicted for the plot to overturn the 2020 election. Mark Meadows has been in self-protection mode for a long time.

Meadows tried to play the game of cooperating with prosecutors but not agreeing to a formal deal. Mark Meadows doesn’t want to burn his MAGA bridges but also does not want to go to prison.

Donald Trump demanded total loyalty from the people around him, but the witnesses against the former president in his criminal trials will be MAGA Republicans.

Mark Meadows is saying he just followed orders as he tries to pin it all on Donald Trump.

[bustamente]

 

[Mark F]

Holy Crap.  

Jack Smith , Fani Willis.... 

remarkable.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Mark F

[bustamente]