US Politics

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

45 minutes ago, pigseye said:

The only way to be certain is to report it right away so that police can obtain the forensic evidence they need to determine if the charges should proceed. Unfortunately, there is no way for police to gather the forensic evidence they need now, the entire investigation has been prejudiced for both parties. What evidence are you going to rely on, he said she said? 

It`s difficult so don`t try?

[kelownabomberfan]

3 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Damn... after reading that article rant, I can understand why she has so many ex-friends. 

 

So much to unpack in that rant, so much of it lies, misdirections, half truths, whataboutism, condescension, hypocrisy, hyperbole, and general "nananananahs".

When Julie was mashing out that manifesto of atodaso/hate/condescension/delusions, I picture her like this:

 

Well, now you know how some Americans feel.  You can choose to post extreme gifs and lob your own bombs at people like this, or you can listen to what they have to say and try to understand where they are coming from. Your call.

[Goalie]

27 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Well, now you know how some Americans feel.  You can choose to post extreme gifs and lob your own bombs at people like this, or you can listen to what they have to say and try to understand where they are coming from. Your call.

Or its just how 1 American feels. One who is obviously blind and delushional

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

34 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Well, now you know how some Americans feel.  You can choose to post extreme gifs and lob your own bombs at people like this, or you can listen to what they have to say and try to understand where they are coming from. Your call.

What is there to understand? Nothing she has written opens up any form of dialogue. The author is part of the problem. 

[The Unknown Poster]

5 hours ago, pigseye said:

I don't know if he is innocent or guilty but the timing is sure convenient. Why didn't they come forward when everyone else was? 

Everyone else who?  

Can you really think of no reason they came forward now?  Which isn’t true by the way. Dr ford disclosed to a therapist several years ago. The other accused didn’t come forward, people that knew her and Kav were actively talking about it. 

[The Unknown Poster]

5 hours ago, pigseye said:

The only evidence you have from 30 years ago is testimony which has been biased over the years, that is pure scientific fact. Now if she had made a police report of incident at the time, you;'d at least have a record of it occurring. 

Yeah maybe.  It funny how the victim wants an fbi investigation where she’s be subject to a felony charge if she lied and the accused, the president and the GOP don’t...

[Jacquie]

 

12 hours ago, pigseye said:

If they had reported it to the police to begin with these sexual predators could be stopped before they hurt someone else. What is so hard to understand? 

I would suggest you search the hashtag WhyIDidntReport on Twitter and read some of the stories of posted by women and men on why they didn't report. 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Jacquie

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, Jacquie said:

 

I would suggest you search the hashtag WhyIDidntReport on Twitter and read some of the stories of posted by women and men on why they didn't report. 

 

Pigseye is smart enough to know.  Its just the blame the victim mentality in support of powerful men who share the same political perspective.  The GOP wanted Clinton out of office for having an consensual affair.

[Mark F]

Have to wonder if some people in the Republican party are now wondering about their own position re charges recommended by Mueller inquiry.

When Mueller brings a charge, it seems to stick.

The once noisy, and highly visible Nunes character seems to have gone very quiet.

Same with the first daughter, (as she calls herself) and her wonderful husband.

[pigseye]

38 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Pigseye is smart enough to know.  Its just the blame the victim mentality in support of powerful men who share the same political perspective.  The GOP wanted Clinton out of office for having an consensual affair.

Clinton lied about it that was his only crime, although if it had happened today, the me too movement would have also be screaming for his head. He took advantage of his power over his subordinate.

The timing of the accusations just makes it look like a political smear job and yes I have a problem with people who don't report these crimes and let sexual predators continue to hurt more victims when they could have done something about it to stop it. A Doctor of all people should know this. 

As for the second accuser, Ramirez, CNN reported last night that Ramirez was phoning classmates because she wasn't even sure if it was Kavanaugh who exposed himself.

[JCon]

Hubby has been tied up with NAFTA negotiations. 

[The Unknown Poster]

13 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Clinton lied about it that was his only crime, although if it had happened today, the me too movement would have also be screaming for his head. He took advantage of his power over his subordinate.

The timing of the accusations just makes it look like a political smear job and yes I have a problem with people who don't report these crimes and let sexual predators continue to hurt more victims when they could have done something about it to stop it. A Doctor of all people should know this. 

As for the second accuser, Ramirez, CNN reported last night that Ramirez was phoning classmates because she wasn't even sure if it was Kavanaugh who exposed himself.

Yes, my point being that the conservatives who are pooh-poohing legitimate claims of a sexual attack  wanted Clinton for having a consensual affair.  If you feel it was egregious of Clinton for using his position to have that affair (and I dont disagree because of the obvious power imbalance) how can you shrug off these claims?

At the very least you should be saying this is why the FBI should be tasked with investigating and why Kav should not be confirmed until he's cleared.  

Your position about victims not coming forward...well, you seem to be accusatory towards them as if they did something wrong so they got what they deserved.  But this isnt voodoo, its far too easy to read about the effects of these attacks on women and why so many do not come forward.  You can't have it both ways:  Either 1) Come forward  and 2) so we can call you a liar, a *****, threaten your life and put you on trial.  

If you want women to come forward, then the way Dr Ford has been treated is the exact opposite way you'd treat women.  Unless you condemn Trump, Kav and their people in their treatment of her, you dont really want women to come forward.  You just want a hollow excuse for why we shouldnt believe her.

And by the way, Ramirez being unsure of the identity of the man who assaulted her does not mean her account is untrue.  Thats like saying its okay to rape an unconscious woman because she wont know its you.   If you want to discuss her specifically, at least tell the whole story, that she didnt come forward at all....it was people she knew that openly talked about the time Kav did that to her and she was approached by media to tell her story.  The fact that she might not have known it was Kav until witnesses told her, well, many victims dont know the identity of their attackers.

Again, sounds like something that warrants investigation by the proper authorities, no?  If Kav was innocent, he'd want the FBI to quickly and completely clear him.  He'd want the eye witness (his own buddy) to testify.  The facts are, the GOP wants this confirmation rammed through to avoid an investigation because they dont want any more stories coming out.  Why is that??

If he's innocent, then investigate, clear him and charge any and all parties who maliciously set out to harm him.  Funny how they dont want to...

[kelownabomberfan]

12 hours ago, Goalie said:

Or its just how 1 American feels. One who is obviously blind and delushional

As I said, this is being forwarded around on FB right now.  A friend forwarded it to me because they said that as they live near the border they had Canadian friends who have now distanced themselves from her, and she finds it so stupid that people are letting politics get in the way of personal human relationships.  That was her point.  She doesn't get it.  I sure as heck haven't let her Trump feelings get in the way of continuing to be friends, not sure why others can't as well.

Edited September 26, 2018 by kelownabomberfan

[kelownabomberfan]

12 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

What is there to understand? Nothing she has written opens up any form of dialogue. The author is part of the problem. 

Fair enough.  Then I guess there is no hope of ending the divisiveness.  As long as both sides point at each other and say "they are the problem" there will never be any healing.  Sigh.

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Fair enough.  Then I guess there is no hope of ending the divisiveness.  As long as both sides point at each other and say "they are the problem" there will never be any healing.  Sigh.

But you posted it. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Yowza 

To me, regardless of politics (again, Im a conservative but not an alt right, with left leaning social beliefs), we really should all agree that this confirmation process should be halted and a complete FBI investigation conducted.  Why not?

Edited September 26, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

But you posted it. 

That's the irony. 

[The Unknown Poster]

15 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

As I said, this is being forwarded around on FB right now.  A friend forwarded it to me because they said that as they live near the border they had Canadian friends who have now distanced themselves from her, and she finds it so stupid that people are letting politics get in the way of personal human relationships.  That was her point.  She doesn't get it.  I sure as heck haven't let her Trump feelings get in the way of continuing to be friends, not sure why others can't as well.

People have different reasons for distancing themselves from people.  One of my best friends is gay but he was generally a conservative for years.  As he got more involved in the gay community, he began moving towards the left.  I recall him being very anti-trump well before the election and I recall telling him that he shouldn't be too hasty that Trump's stated position had been supportive of gays.  Of course, my open mind to Trump has allowed me to complete be disgusted with him.

The suggestion that its sad when anti-Trump people distance themselves from their trump loving friends, I think diminishes the historic level of disgust people feel.  

Many people would consider it reasonable to distance themselves from friends they come to see as racist, bigoted, ignorant, misogynistic etc.  We can probably agree on that.  So if people in the US see their President that way, it should be no surprise they'd distance themselves from people who support that.  

I liked W. and I recall having many debates and discussions with friends and others and it was never nasty.  I've been at parties with Trump supporters and to be honest, you can have ten people of various political spectrum discussing something and the Trump supporter is like a grenade in the midst.  

[JCon]

I haven't heard one reason to support Trump, from a Trump supporter, that is anything but "owning Libs", "but Clinton", and "but the economy". 

And the economy is rolling, thanks to Obama and Trump's tax cuts, but there is no evidence that it's sustainable due to mounting debt at mid-late '00s levels and inflation due to incoherent trade policies. 

 

The fact that white nationalism is on the rise and being promoted from the WH is enough for anyone. The overwhelming evidence that Russia interfered with the election to get Trump elected and the following inaction to prevent them from interfering again. The demonizing of Canada and Europe, while praising dictators like Putin, Kim, Duterte, etc is unconscionable.

Everything people warned about has happened or is happening. 

And, lastly, the constant interference in the Mueller investigation, which continues to get indictment after indictment, plea after plea, is enough to show you what type of person Trump is. He's a coward and bully. And history will show the level of corruption he and his administration have been involved in.

No, I'm done with 'Murica and anyone who says, "whatabout..." 

[pigseye]

27 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Yowza 

To me, regardless of politics (again, Im a conservative but not an alt right, with left leaning social beliefs), we really should all agree that this confirmation process should be halted and a complete FBI investigation conducted.  Why not?

The sworm statements are the only evidence and will be available at the hearing, what more is there to investigate? 

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, pigseye said:

The sworm statements are the only evidence and will be available at the hearing, what more is there to investigate? 

You cant be serious.   Are you not aware of the number of witnesses that have been named, especially Kav's best friend who would be his best witness but he doesnt even want him there for some reason.  We're talking about trained investigators who are experts in questioning people and conducting these sorts of investigations.  Its ridiculous to rely on people coming forward publicly when doing so puts them in jeopardy.  But an investigation could point to other witnesses who would be obligated under threat of felony charge, to tell the truth.

I mean...man...so any time there is a crime, the people involved should just write out their versions and mail it to a judge and thats that?  No investigations needed? lol

The only reason you'd not want an investigation is because you fear the outcome.  Anyone falsly accused of a serious crimes wants to be exonerated.  If they wont talk to the feds, if they dont want their witnesses talking to the feds...there's a problem.

If you think Kav is telling the truth and everyone else, including his room mate, is lying, why wouldnt you want that investigated?

EDIT: And how do you know the statements are the "only evidence"?  Who said that?  Just today we have a new witness, a new victim and Kav's High School calendar.  Are we to take it all at face value?  Does it not warrant a check of its veracity?  There could be other evidence out there, other witnesses....thats why you do investigations.

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[pigseye]

10 minutes ago, JCon said:

I haven't heard one reason to support Trump, from a Trump supporter, that is anything but "owning Libs", "but Clinton", and "but the economy". 

And the economy is rolling, thanks to Obama and Trump's tax cuts, but there is no evidence that it's sustainable due to mounting debt at mid-late '00s levels and inflation due to incoherent trade policies. 

 

The fact that white nationalism is on the rise and being promoted from the WH is enough for anyone. The overwhelming evidence that Russia interfered with the election to get Trump elected and the following inaction to prevent them from interfering again. The demonizing of Canada and Europe, while praising dictators like Putin, Kim, Duterte, etc is unconscionable.

Everything people warned about has happened or is happening. 

And, lastly, the constant interference in the Mueller investigation, which continues to get indictment after indictment, plea after plea, is enough to show you what type of person Trump is. He's a coward and bully. And history will show the level of corruption he and his administration have been involved in.

No, I'm done with 'Murica and anyone who says, "whatabout..." 

And Trudeau blames all his failures on Harper and the Conservatives

Canada's economy has stalled and is losing jobs and investment

Nationalism has been on the rise since before Trump and started in Europe due to ill conceived immigration policies

We were warmed that Trudeau just wasn't ready and guess what, he wasn't

With the recent revelation that the AG wanted to Watergate Trump, they are just as complicit in the whole mess

Welcome to politics in the 21st century, it's not about what's best for a country anymore. 

[blue_gold_84]

14 minutes ago, JCon said:

And the economy is rolling, thanks to Obama and Trump's tax cuts, but there is no evidence that it's sustainable due to mounting debt at mid-late '00s levels and inflation due to incoherent trade policies. 

https://www.newsweek.com/stock-market-1134867

Quote

Financial experts noted several ominous economic indicators, including skyrocketing student loans and U.S. household debts, that could predict a crash "worse than the Great Depression," according to a report in the New York Post. 

Goldman Sachs predicted that this year's U.S. fiscal outlook would be "not good," and that U.S. household debt had been increasing since the 2008 housing crisis led to American taxpayers bailing out the big banks. 

In 2018, experts said, a $247 trillion global debt will be the greatest cause of the next cataclysmic financial crash. Additionally, low wages and the U.S. national debt's steady rise are expected to drag down the economy. 

What's taking place is simply not sustainable. Unless Newsweek is just part of the Libtard Media...?

sidenote: how in the blue **** is the entire planet in $247 trillion dollars of debt?!

[pigseye]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You cant be serious.   Are you not aware of the number of witnesses that have been named, especially Kav's best friend who would be his best witness but he doesnt even want him there for some reason.  We're talking about trained investigators who are experts in questioning people and conducting these sorts of investigations.  Its ridiculous to rely on people coming forward publicly when doing so puts them in jeopardy.  But an investigation could point to other witnesses who would be obligated under threat of felony charge, to tell the truth.

I mean...man...so any time there is a crime, the people involved should just write out their versions and mail it to a judge and thats that?  No investigations needed? lol

The only reason you'd not want an investigation is because you fear the outcome.  Anyone falsly accused of a serious crimes wants to be exonerated.  If they wont talk to the feds, if they dont want their witnesses talking to the feds...there's a problem.

If you think Kav is telling the truth and everyone else, including his room mate, is lying, why wouldnt you want that investigated?

EDIT: And how do you know the statements are the "only evidence"?  Who said that?  Just today we have a new witness, a new victim and Kav's High School calendar.  Are we to take it all at face value?  Does it not warrant a check of its veracity?  There could be other evidence out there, other witnesses....thats why you do investigations.

 

Heard it last night on CNN, the statements are the only evidence and they will be available at the hearing, you don't need to drag people in just to reread their own statements, even Don Lemon agreed with this lol. 

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I mean...man...so any time there is a crime, the people involved should just write out their versions and mail it to a judge and thats that?  No investigations needed? lol

I blocked the other guy, so I didn't see his post but I'm kind of in agreement. I think that most of the claims are beyond the statute of limitations, so an FBI investigation is unnecessary. That being said, if the GOP thinks Kav is still worth putting on the bench, then yes, the FBI should collect as much evidence as possible to inform. 

Of course, there is enough evidence already to disqualify Kav. He should pull his name. GOP should not need anything further. At this point though, a confession by Kav of wrongdoing would not be enough to stop them from pushing this through. 

The civil suits will be interesting.