US Politics

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Heard it last night on CNN, the statements are the only evidence and they will be available at the hearing, you don't need to drag people in just to reread their own statements, even Don Lemon agreed with this lol. 

I dont believe Mark Judge gave a sworn statement that carries a perjury charge...he should be there.  But the Senate is not the FBI.  You're conflating a show-hearing where the Senators have already said they plan to confirm Kav regardless, with a legitimate investigation.  Why do you fear an FBI investigation?

 

4 minutes ago, JCon said:

I blocked the other guy, so I didn't see his post but I'm kind of in agreement. I think that most of the claims are beyond the statute of limitations, so an FBI investigation is unnecessary. That being said, if the GOP thinks Kav is still worth putting on the bench, then yes, the FBI should collect as much evidence as possible to inform. 

Of course, there is enough evidence already to disqualify Kav. He should pull his name. GOP should not need anything further. At this point though, a confession by Kav of wrongdoing would not be enough to stop them from pushing this through. 

The civil suits will be interesting. 

In Maryland, it may not be outside of the Statute.  However, the reason the FBI should investigate is because they are the federal investigative agency.  They do back ground checks on prospective nominees and will do deeper investigations at the request of the White House.  They have the power to do a full investigation.  And when you are questioned by the FBI, you are obligated to tell the truth by law.  

There are too many accusers, witnesses and second-hand, third-hand etc accounts...too much stuff floating around on both sides, to not demand an FBI investigation to weed out the irrelevant stuff and focus on what actually happened.  What the White House fears, even in a "he said/she said" is an FBI report that calls Dr Ford "credible".

And oddly, we see here supporters of Trump dont want an investigation at all.  Imagine being okay with a potential sexual predator and liar being confirmed to SCOTUS.  Its not like if Kav s pulled, his replacement will be a liberal...lol  The line isnt being drawn at "Republican appointee", its being drawn at "lying, partisan, white nationalist, potential sexual predator."  I dont know...seems like a reasonable line to me.

Pull his nominee and go on to the next one.  Thats why there are confirmation hearings.  to weed out crap like this.  He's crap.  Next.

[kelownabomberfan]

59 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

But you posted it. 

Not sure what this means, but whatever, if everyone just wants to put their hands over their ears and scream "Lah lah lah" then it's another six years of Trump.  

[pigseye]

Who's stopping the FBI from investigating, all you have to do is report a Federal Crime to them: 

That agent can then write up what is called an administrative subpoena and submit it for approval. This is reviewed internally, with up to seven layers of oversight, until a budget and staffing assignment can be made and an official investigation begun.

[kelownabomberfan]

55 minutes ago, JCon said:

That's the irony. 

shrugs...as I said, this really doesn't help try and find a way to heal the divide.  But from what I am seeing, there doesn't appear to be a will on either side to do so.  Why all of the constant fighting?  Isn't it tiring?

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, kelownabomberfan said:

Not sure what this means, but whatever, if everyone just wants to put their hands over their ears and scream "Lah lah lah" then it's another six years of Trump.  

You posted a "letter" that was a partisan, smarmy attack on the "left" and then when people pointed it out for what it was, you lamented that we cant get along and cant "heal".  If you think opposers of Trump need to embrace the perspective of that "letter" to heal, you're being very close minded to what actually divides people.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

shrugs...as I said, this really doesn't help try and find a way to heal the divide.  But from what I am seeing, there doesn't appear to be a will on either side to do so.  Why all of the constant fighting?  Isn't it tiring?

What fighting?  Do you mean specifically here or do you mean in general in the US?  I dont see people fighting here.  People in the US have every right to protest.  Their President appears to be a racist, bigot with at least 17 credible allegations of sexual misconduct who was just laughed at by the UN assembly.  You're not sure why people have a problem with that?

[pigseye]

Just now, kelownabomberfan said:

Not sure what this means, but whatever, if everyone just wants to put their hands over their ears and scream "Lah lah lah" then it's another six years of Trump.  

 

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You posted a "letter" that was a partisan, smarmy attack on the "left" and then when people pointed it out for what it was, you lamented that we cant get along and cant "heal".  If you think opposers of Trump need to embrace the perspective of that "letter" to heal, you're being very close minded to what actually divides people.

I thought the left was the party of understanding and healing, why is this any different, reach out and practice what you preach. 

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Who's stopping the FBI from investigating, all you have to do is report a Federal Crime to them: 

That agent can then write up what is called an administrative subpoena and submit it for approval. This is reviewed internally, with up to seven layers of oversight, until a budget and staffing assignment can be made and an official investigation begun.

I believe you are incorrect.  First of all, a victim is not obligated to report a crime.  Of course, its always better when they do.  We've established that you do not believe there are any legitimate reasons that victims of sexual assault would not report those crimes and we've established that you're wrong on that count.  But assuming Dr Ford wanted to file charges, I believe the jurisdiction is the Maryland PD.  Its not a federal crime.

Where the FBI has jurisdiction is investigating Federal employees, such as Kav.  In this case, they'd have to be instructed to do so.  We've heard Trump say "the FBI doesnt do that".  That is factually wrong.  They've actually done this exact same thing before, at the request of the White House.  The FBI stands ready to do so. But they must be directed by the only party able to direct them to investigate, the White House (or Sessions, which is essentially the same).'

Again, why do you not want an FBI investigation.  If they investigate and three days from now they say "meh, we cant make heads or tails of this", what was lost?  Nothing.  We know they wont say that.  I guess thats the issue.

As I said, its not about ditching a Trump-appointee.  The GOP wouldnt confirm Obama's nominee when he had every right to make one.  Yet they want to ram through a guy with multiple allegations of sexual impropriety?  Is that not deserving of a full investigation by a non-partisan body?

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, pigseye said:

 

I thought the left was the party of understanding and healing, why is this any different, reach out and practice what you preach. 

What are you talking about?  Firstly, Im not the "left".  Secondly, if you mean the left in general, you're suggesting that they, as the party of understanding and healing should embrace Trump and go along because....why?  And the inverse is that the GOP can continue to sow discord because they dont claim to be understanding? lol

I guess it would be easier for Trump supporters if people who object to his white nationalism just accepted it.  But I dont think thats going to happen.   I suppose the left could learn from the right in how to accept a President they dont like, right?

[blue_gold_84]

4 minutes ago, pigseye said:

I thought the left was the party of understanding and healing, why is this any different, reach out and practice what you preach. 

What a useless comment.

Another member posted some silly garbage "letter" from social media, and it served absolutely no purpose whatsoever save to stir the pot. Others here called it for being just that.

Try and pay attention to the discussion here instead of making pointless, inane statements.

[pigseye]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I believe you are incorrect.  First of all, a victim is not obligated to report a crime.  Of course, its always better when they do.  We've established that you do not believe there are any legitimate reasons that victims of sexual assault would not report those crimes and we've established that you're wrong on that count.  But assuming Dr Ford wanted to file charges, I believe the jurisdiction is the Maryland PD.  Its not a federal crime.

Where the FBI has jurisdiction is investigating Federal employees, such as Kav.  In this case, they'd have to be instructed to do so.  We've heard Trump say "the FBI doesnt do that".  That is factually wrong.  They've actually done this exact same thing before, at the request of the White House.  The FBI stands ready to do so. But they must be directed by the only party able to direct them to investigate, the White House (or Sessions, which is essentially the same).'

Again, why do you not want an FBI investigation.  If they investigate and three days from now they say "meh, we cant make heads or tails of this", what was lost?  Nothing.  We know they wont say that.  I guess thats the issue.

As I said, its not about ditching a Trump-appointee.  The GOP wouldnt confirm Obama's nominee when he had every right to make one.  Yet they want to ram through a guy with multiple allegations of sexual impropriety?  Is that not deserving of a full investigation by a non-partisan body?

First of all, yes I am biased but not for the reason you think. I'm biased because a knew a beautiful person who was raped and murdered by a sexual predator and it only came out after the fact that it wasn't the first time he had done this, the other victims only came forward after he was arrested. They could have prevented this senseless tragedy but chose not to, so yes I'm very biased, angry and pissed right off when I hear all the excuses for not coming forward when something like this happens, all it does is enable the predator until it reaches the inevitable end.

So it's not in the FBI's jurisdiction, have the Maryland PD investigate then, what difference does it make which law enforcement agency investigates, they will reach the same conclusions, or should.

[pigseye]

7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What are you talking about?  Firstly, Im not the "left".  Secondly, if you mean the left in general, you're suggesting that they, as the party of understanding and healing should embrace Trump and go along because....why?  And the inverse is that the GOP can continue to sow discord because they dont claim to be understanding? lol

I guess it would be easier for Trump supporters if people who object to his white nationalism just accepted it.  But I dont think thats going to happen.   I suppose the left could learn from the right in how to accept a President they dont like, right?

The letter was addressed to the left, Dems, Liberals, you know what I mean, not you in particular.

They shouldn't embrace him but when someone extends an olive branch why not grab it? Isn't that what it means to be human?

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, pigseye said:

First of all, yes I am biased but not for the reason you think. I'm biased because a knew a beautiful person who was raped and murdered by a sexual predator and it only came out after the fact that it wasn't the first time he had done this, the other victims only came forward after he was arrested. They could have prevented this senseless tragedy but chose not to, so yes I'm very biased, angry and pissed right off when I hear all the excuses for not coming forward when something like this happens, all it does is enable the predator until it reaches the inevitable end.

So it's not in the FBI's jurisdiction, have the Maryland PD investigate then, what difference does it make which law enforcement agency investigates, they will reach the same conclusions, or should.

Im legitimately very sorry to hear that.  Its tragic.  And yes, had his very first victim come forward, your friend might have been saved.  But you must know that had his very first victim come forward, she might have been vilified, called a ***** and received threats.  She might have been told it was her fault because of what she was wearing or drinking or where she was or how she "flirted".  And it might have made no difference at all.

If the first victim doesnt come forward, wouldn't you hope the second victim does?  Or third?  Someone...anyone, right?   What if, no one came forward about Kav and five years from now, he's at a party, drunk or whatever and sexually assaults someone.  But he's on the SCOTUS.  Would you then say "well damn those previous victims for not coming forward."

Yes, its unlikely Kav would rape someone now...we certainly hope he wouldnt.  But if you look at your own position, would you not be 100% supportive of the victims coming forward to stop this man?

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, pigseye said:

The letter was addressed to the left, Dems, Liberals, you know what I mean, not you in particular.

They shouldn't embrace him but when someone extends an olive branch why not grab it? Isn't that what it means to be human?

The letter wasnt an olive branch.  And that person doesnt speak for the entity of the "right".  What olive branch is being extended when the President of the United States tells Americans to disregard a victim of sexual assault because she was drunk?  Or to disregard another victim because she's a liar?

What we see today is vastly different than past admins.  It got nasty and racist with Obama.  But generally, whether it was H.W., W, Clinton, Obama, there were disagreements, not a sense of deep, deep divide.  Its not about politics.  Its far more.  

[The Unknown Poster]

Hmmmm

 

[17to85]

10 minutes ago, pigseye said:

The letter was addressed to the left, Dems, Liberals, you know what I mean, not you in particular.

They shouldn't embrace him but when someone extends an olive branch why not grab it? Isn't that what it means to be human?

Well just using the supreme court picks in the us... Obama picked a centre-right nominee that everyone agreed was a good pick. Republican controlled Senate wouldn't even give him a hearing or a vote simply because it was an Obama nominee. Now they got a real **** head nominee and from the get go have been avoiding proper vetting and ignoring red flags just to ram him through because he's hard line right enough. There is no olive branch from Republicans. Democrats try and compromise but the Republicans lie cheat and steal their way to the top. The whole party is rotten to the core and there is no working with them.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Well just using the supreme court picks in the us... Obama picked a centre-right nominee that everyone agreed was a good pick. Republican controlled Senate wouldn't even give him a hearing or a vote simply because it was an Obama nominee. Now they got a real **** head nominee and from the get go have been avoiding proper vetting and ignoring red flags just to ram him through because he's hard line right enough. There is no olive branch from Republicans. Democrats try and compromise but the Republicans lie cheat and steal their way to the top. The whole party is rotten to the core and there is no working with them.

Read one interesting take on why the GOP is so determined to ram this guy through.  They dont feel there is enough time to confirm a replacement before the mid-terms, will lose in the mid-terms, will be blocked from confirming someone next year due to impeachment hearings, will be blocked from doing so in 2020 (the McConnel rule) and will lose 2020.  So their chance to jam the SCOTUS hard right is now or...possibly not for a long long time.

[The Unknown Poster]

I’m a bit more skeptics of this one. But it certainly deserves proper investigation. 

 

Edited September 26, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[17to85]

23 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Read one interesting take on why the GOP is so determined to ram this guy through.  They dont feel there is enough time to confirm a replacement before the mid-terms, will lose in the mid-terms, will be blocked from confirming someone next year due to impeachment hearings, will be blocked from doing so in 2020 (the McConnel rule) and will lose 2020.  So their chance to jam the SCOTUS hard right is now or...possibly not for a long long time.

They just want to stack the bench with hard line right wingers while they can, they're not even being subtle about it. It's the end game for Republicans because then it doesn't matter who is in the white house they can sti impose their regressive social standards on the country.

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You posted a "letter" that was a partisan, smarmy attack on the "left" 

this just isn't helping.  Anyone.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

this just isn't helping.  Anyone.

I agree.  Im not sure why you did it.  Seemed an odd thing to do in the midst of pressing news about multiple allegations against Trump's SCOTUS nominee.  

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

 

Another member posted some silly garbage "letter" from social media, and it served absolutely no purpose whatsoever save to stir the pot. Others here called it for being just that.

Try and pay attention to the discussion here instead of making pointless, inane statements.

That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it, but that "silly garbage" represents a significant number of people in the US.  My point, which seems to be lost in a sea of vitriol, is that you can either choose to listen, and understand their views, or you can call them :silly garbage".  Plan B is going to lead to another victorious 4 years for Trump.  Because these same people were feeling alienated and victimized in 2016.  Now that has racheted up 1000%.  I personally don't understand it myself.  Is there no way to communicate back and forth without using words like "silly garbage" to describe each others' views?

[kelownabomberfan]

Just now, The Unknown Poster said:

I agree.  Im not sure why you did it.  

and that's why Trump is going to win.

[kelownabomberfan]

30 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

They just want to stack the bench with hard line right wingers while they can, they're not even being subtle about it. It's the end game for Republicans because then it doesn't matter who is in the white house they can sti impose their regressive social standards on the country.

and the response to that would be - who should be on the supreme court?  I am not in favor of this guy for sure, but who do you want instead?

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, kelownabomberfan said:

and that's why Trump is going to win.

If Trump wins because you posted a partisan "letter" on a sports forum, you should be buying a Lotto Max ticket this week.