US Politics

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

interesting read and very poignant.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/07/opinions/reasoning-with-trump-voters-mallicote/index.html

 

Quote

We should, however, address their stated rationale for voting the way they did. So to those good and decent people who voted for Donald Trump, here is what I wrote on Facebook and would like to say today:

You voted for Trump because Hillary Clinton was going to be in Wall Street's pocket. Trump wants to repeal Dodd-Frank and eliminate the Fiduciary Rule, letting Wall Street return to its pre-2008 ways.

You voted for Trump because you thought the Clinton Foundation was "pay for play." Trump has refused to wall off his businesses from his administration, and personally profits from payments from foreign governments.

You voted for Trump because of Clinton's role in Benghazi. Trump ordered the Yemen raid without adequate intel, and tweeted about "FAKE NEWS" while Americans died as a result of his carelessness.

You voted for Trump because Clinton didn't care about "the little guy." Trump's cabinet is full of billionaires, and he's taking away your health insurance so he can give them a multi-million-dollar tax break.

You voted for Trump because he was going to build a wall and Mexico was going to pay for it. American consumers will pay for the wall via import tariffs.

You voted for Trump because Clinton was going to get us into a war. Trump has provoked our enemies, alienated our allies and given ISIS a decade's worth of recruiting material.

You voted for Trump because Clinton didn't have the "stamina" to do the job. Trump hung up on the Australian Prime Minister during a 5 p.m. phone call because "it was at the end of a long day and he was tired and fatigue was setting in."

You voted for Trump because foreign leaders wouldn't respect Clinton. Foreign leaders, both friendly and hostile, are openly mocking Trump.

You voted for Trump because Clinton lies and "he tells it like it is." Trump and his administration lie with a regularity and brazenness that can only be described as shocking.

Let's be honest about what really happened.

The reality is that you voted for Trump because you got conned. Trump is a grifter and the American people were the mark. Hey, it happens, and there's no shame in being taken in by a pro. But now that you know the score, quit insisting the conman is on your side.

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by wanna-b-fanboy

[The Unknown Poster]

But thats the problem.  Social media means people get their news in 140 characters and they dont check facts.  And thats a new reality.  Someone like Trump probably makes thing better because a lot of people that voted for him clearly regret it...so in the future perhaps they wont be so quick to believe the 140 character rhetoric.

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

interesting read and very poignant.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/07/opinions/reasoning-with-trump-voters-mallicote/index.html

 

 

The most hilarious thing was Trump, in his golden palace as the blue collar candidate. 

They forgot, you voted for Trump because you're a racist and he promised to make America White Again.

[JCon]

14 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

But thats the problem.  Social media means people get their news in 140 characters and they dont check facts.  And thats a new reality.  Someone like Trump probably makes thing better because a lot of people that voted for him clearly regret it...so in the future perhaps they wont be so quick to believe the 140 character rhetoric.

Not a problem but, rather, an opportunity for Trump!

Propaganda was made for taglines, short clips and sound bites. It's perfect for Twitter.

This is great article from the Atlantic, which I'm not if it's been posted yet here. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/03/how-to-build-an-autocracy/513872/

It doesn't describe what will happen but what could happen. It's a bit over the top in how generalizes the impact of 4 years of Trump but it gives you a sense of a roadmap that he could follow and how voters could follow him. It's interesting, scary, not that far fetched and still unlikely.

[kelownabomberfan]

24 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

They forgot, you voted for Trump because you're a racist and he promised to make America White Again.

The people I know who voted for Trump aren't racists, and I find it offensive that all people who voted for Trump are being generalized in this way.  If you want to know why Trump won, this is one of the many reasons, the generalization that if you don't think and do as you are told by those who think they know best, you are a bigot or a racist or insert insult here.  And it looks like those who were stunned that Trump won didn't learn a thing from the loss, and are still pointing fingers and making excuses rather than trying to grasp why they lost.  Stop making these kinds of generalist statements about people just because they didn't vote the way you wanted them to vote.  It is a losing strategy.  Building bridges rather than burning them wins elections.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

The people I know who voted for Trump aren't racists, and I find it offensive that all people who voted for Trump are being generalized in this way.  If you want to know why Trump won, this is one of the many reasons, the generalization that if you don't think and do as you are told by those who think they know best, you are a bigot or a racist or insert insult here.  And it looks like those who were stunned that Trump won didn't learn a thing from the loss, and are still pointing fingers and making excuses rather than trying to grasp why they lost.  Stop making these kinds of generalist statements about people just because they didn't vote the way you wanted them to vote.  It is a losing strategy.  Building bridges rather than burning them wins elections.

Clearly facetious remark...lol  How long did it take you to meet every Trump voter and ascertain they werent racist?  Im quite certain some of his voters are.

The shy Trump supporters tie themselves in knots looking for ways to defend him.

Edited February 8, 2017 by The Unknown Poster

[kelownabomberfan]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Clearly facetious remark...lol  The shy Trump supporters tie themselves in knots looking for ways to defend him.

Not sure who these shy Trump supporters are, but I think most Trump supporters out there are just keeping quiet.  There is no point wading into any discussions as they are just shouted down, much like they were during the election itself.  And if you bother to show up at a protest to show any support you are hit in the face with pepper-spray or smoked in the head with a flag pole.  As I've said before, America is quite fractured right now, and both sides seem to be doing their darnedest to ensure that no healing is done whatsoever, as there appears to be zero interest in even trying.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Not sure who these shy Trump supporters are,

I think the voters that were conned are a little shy (re: embarrassed). you know the ones that:

Quote

voted for Trump because Hillary Clinton was going to be in Wall Street's pocket. Trump wants to repeal Dodd-Frank and eliminate the Fiduciary Rule, letting Wall Street return to its pre-2008 ways.

voted for Trump because you thought the Clinton Foundation was "pay for play." Trump has refused to wall off his businesses from his administration, and personally profits from payments from foreign governments.

voted for Trump because of Clinton's role in Benghazi. Trump ordered the Yemen raid without adequate intel, and tweeted about "FAKE NEWS" while Americans died as a result of his carelessness.

voted for Trump because Clinton didn't care about "the little guy." Trump's cabinet is full of billionaires, and he's taking away your health insurance so he can give them a multi-million-dollar tax break.

voted for Trump because he was going to build a wall and Mexico was going to pay for it. American consumers will pay for the wall via import tariffs.

voted for Trump because Clinton was going to get us into a war. Trump has provoked our enemies, alienated our allies and given ISIS a decade's worth of recruiting material.

voted for Trump because Clinton didn't have the "stamina" to do the job. Trump hung up on the Australian Prime Minister during a 5 p.m. phone call because "it was at the end of a long day and he was tired and fatigue was setting in."

voted for Trump because foreign leaders wouldn't respect Clinton. Foreign leaders, both friendly and hostile, are openly mocking Trump.

voted for Trump because Clinton lies and "he tells it like it is." Trump and his administration lie with a regularity and brazenness that can only be described as shocking.

^^ those guys ^^

[kelownabomberfan]

12 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I think the voters that were conned are a little shy (re: embarrassed). you know the ones that:

^^ those guys ^^

I get it, but yet the people I know didn't vote for Trump for any of those reasons.  I think those are invented reasons by people who don't want to accept the fact that the Democrats alienated millions of people in the US.  It's much easier to just call all of those people alienated by the DNC "stupid" and "dupes" and "racists" rather than look inwardly at what they did wrong, and what has to change to make their party electable.  Right now the DNC is in a complete shambles, and seems to be moving backwards rather than forwards.

Here's one guy who was solid DNC through and through, and now he's walking away.  He explains why in this video.  You can call him a "racist" or a "bigot", but I don't believe that he is alone.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by kelownabomberfan

[sweep the leg]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I get it, but yet the people I know didn't vote for Trump for any of those reasons.  I think those are invented reasons by people who don't want to accept the fact that the Democrats alienated millions of people in the US.

So your American friends are ok with white nationalism, but draw the line at political correctness?

[kelownabomberfan]

9 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

So your American friends are ok with white nationalism, but draw the line at political correctness?

why don't you ask some Americans yourself why they voted for Trump.   I think they would bristle at the very concept that they support white nationalism.  But it's their country, so you should ask them, not me.

[kelownabomberfan]

Here's one response I received when I asked a Trump supporter I know, directly, your exact question:

Quote

I voted for Trump because there have been promises of doing something about the border between the US and Mexico since BILL CLINTON. And not one thing was done. Personally I don't give a flying bleep what color a person's skin is. I care whether they are here legally. My Grandparents came here legally. A lot of my friends parents came here legally (from Mexico!) Borders are there for a reason. If you aren't going to enforce those laws then you might as well just forget all of them!

So there you go.  White nationalism?  I don't know.
 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

38 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

why don't you ask some Americans yourself why they voted for Trump.   I think they would bristle at the very concept that they support white nationalism.  But it's their country, so you should ask them, not me.

I think Sweep is just a bit confused, cuz you constantly reference your USAnsfriends or USAns that you talk to. More often then not explaining to us that they are done with Political correctness and SJWs. Now there is a white Nationalist sentiment coming out of the woodwork and into the mainstream, emboldened by the Trump movement. So, I think Sweep equated that these USAns friends or those USAns that you talk to having No tolerance for SJW syndrome and PCness yet can back A president who has emboldened the White Nationals and elevated a former Executive Chairman of an ALTright, White nationalist-leaning website to the US security Council. 

Edited February 8, 2017 by wanna-b-fanboy

[kelownabomberfan]

17 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I think Sweep is just a bit confused, cuz you constantly reference your USAnsfriends or USAns that you talk to. More often then not explaining to us that they are done with Political correctness and SJWs.

Yes, I think that was part of it, but my one friend I just quoted seems to be more concerned about the border and the flood of illegals across it.  I think the Democrats just ignoring that issue was to their detriment.  As Canadians we are kind of sheltered by the US acting as a buffer for the illegal immigrant flow over the border.  I realize that you guys are having a hard time with Bannon, but most of the US people I talk to don't know who is and care even less.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Yes, I think that was part of it, but my one friend I just quoted seems to be more concerned about the border and the flood of illegals across it.  I think the Democrats just ignoring that issue was to their detriment... I realize that you guys are having a hard time with Bannon, but most of the US people I talk to don't know who is and care even less.

But that's just it, that is what sweep is saying (as well as many people)- as long as he represents less SJW and PCness, they can gloss over the White nationalist, bigotry, racism, misogynistic and pettiness. 

Not knowing who Bannon is and not being concerned... They should- he's the guy making USA policy.

[kelownabomberfan]

12 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

Not knowing who Bannon is and not being concerned... They should- he's the guy making USA policy.

I will ask them.  I don't think they will agree with your assessment that he's the guy making USA policy.  I also don't think that they would concur on your assessment vis a vis the racism, misogyny and bigotry you profess exists.  

[bigg jay]

56 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Yes, I think that was part of it, but my one friend I just quoted seems to be more concerned about the border and the flood of illegals across it.  I think the Democrats just ignoring that issue was to their detriment.  As Canadians we are kind of sheltered by the US acting as a buffer for the illegal immigrant flow over the border.  I realize that you guys are having a hard time with Bannon, but most of the US people I talk to don't know who is and care even less.

Ironic considering the number of illegal immigrants in the USA were at a record high under Bush but decreased under Obama.  Did your friend happen to vote Democrat the two previous elections for the Republican failure to act?

[kelownabomberfan]

20 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Ironic considering the number of illegal immigrants in the USA were at a record high under Bush but decreased under Obama.  Did your friend happen to vote Democrat the two previous elections for the Republican failure to act?

Do you have stats to support that statement re the decrease in Illegals?  Just curious where you got that information from.  I can ask my friend regarding the Democrat vote, but first the initial premise that somehow the Obama administration reduced illegals has to be proven.  And then the point would also have to be made that until Trump came along, no one was even discussing illegal immigration, let alone solutions to the issue.

[bigg jay]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/number-of-illegal-immigrants-in-u-s-holds-steady-at-11-million-1474394518

Illegal immigration peaked at 12.2 million in 2007 under Bush and of those, 6.9 million were from Mexico.  The numbers under Obama dropped to 11 million (5.8 million from Mexico).  

Obama also deported more illegals than any other president so you can't really say he wasn't doing anything about it.  Trump is targeting Mexican illegals at a time when their numbers are shrinking but numbers from other places like Asia & Africa are rising.

Edited February 9, 2017 by bigg jay
Fixed typo

[kelownabomberfan]

9 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/number-of-illegal-immigrants-in-u-s-holds-steady-at-11-million-1474394518

Illegal immigration peaked at 12.2 million in 2007 under Bush and of those, 6.9 million were from Mexico.  The numbers under Obama dropped to 11 million (5.8 million from Mexico).  

Obama also deported more illegals than any other president so you can't really say he wasn't doing anything about it.  Trump is targeting Mexican illegals at a time when their numbers are shrinking but numbers from other places like Asia & Africa are rising.

OK thanks for that.  I'll ask my friend what she thinks of this.

On another note - more intolerance from the "tolerant left" today...this makes me sad...

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/02/08/tim-scott-reads-bigoted-insults-tweeted-to-him-for-supporting-sessions-nomination/

[HardCoreBlue]

12 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/number-of-illegal-immigrants-in-u-s-holds-steady-at-11-million-1474394518

Illegal immigration peaked at 12.2 million in 2007 under Bush and of those, 6.9 million were from Mexico.  The numbers under Obama dropped to 11 million (5.8 million from Mexico).  

Obama also deported more illegals than any other president so you can't really say he wasn't doing anything about it.  Trump is targeting Mexican illegals at a time when their numbers are shrinking but numbers from other places like Asia & Africa are rising.

I'm sensing that this is a hard number to track accurately (whether high or low) when I read the word undocumented.

 

[Fatty Liver]

4 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I will ask them.  I don't think they will agree with your assessment that he's the guy making USA policy.  I also don't think that they would concur on your assessment vis a vis the racism, misogyny and bigotry you profess exists.  

I bet for every smart American that you know there are at least 2 or 3 million that are dumb as rocks.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

5 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I will ask them.  I don't think they will agree with your assessment that he's the guy making USA policy.  I also don't think that they would concur on your assessment vis a vis the racism, misogyny and bigotry you profess exists.  

They can can disagree with me as much as they want- they are still wrong. Anyone paying attention to the last year would see this. This is not an Alternative Fact.

[kelownabomberfan]

23 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

They can can disagree with me as much as they want- they are still wrong. 

OK, I will let her know that.  Just wait until we get Sarah Palin as our ambassador!  It just gets better and better!

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I bet for every smart American that you know there are at least 2 or 3 million that are dumb as rocks.

Dumb as rocks.  A bit harsh no?  These are our neighbours we're talking about.  Some of whom make a living in our fair city playing their hearts out on our football field for our entertainment.

Edited February 9, 2017 by kelownabomberfan