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Posted

Don't think I heard anything that hasn't been uttered somewhere before, by the media, talk show hosts, or in court filings against others. Would have loved to have heard an answer to the question "What does Trump fear most?" from Cohen, rather than backing off.

With respect to Trump doubling down even though he did not want the job and thinking he'd lose, that has always been his style. We've seen it when he's caught in an obvious lie with the factual counter-argument thrown in his face. His default is double-down rather than back-pedal.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Thats sort of the really dumb part.  Let's assume Trump was doing the Moscow project because he assumed he'd lose and it was too big of a deal to pass up.  I can accept that.  Its sort of disingenuous to your supporters, but we can accept he never expected to win nor wanted to win and that his primary focus was money money money so he kept running the operation.

Why lie?  Its not like supporters would turn on him if he said "sure, Im doing business in Russia.  Its what I do."  But he or someone close to him was **** scared of admitting that.   In retrospect, it stinks because it provided motivation for him to be indebted to Russia.  But had he just admitted it, I doubt anything changed and he doesnt have the stink of a cover-up.  IF he criminally conspired with Russia to impact the election, which is very possible, that's a different matter.  But that fact is true or false regardless of the outcome (he might have just felt no one would care had he lost).

But it almost doesnt make sense other than your point that he couldn't help himself.  If he didnt want to win, why help rig the election?  Because like everything else, he has to push the false narrative of being the best and winning at everything.  

I go back to the debate with Hillary where she was asked why Putin feared her more than Trump, and she said Putin would rather have a puppet than a President. Trump took real umbrage at that quote, with a "I know you are but what am I?" schoolyard retort. Trump is a carnival barker, but isn't the underlying suspicion (and fear) that Stephen Miller is really the guy pulling the strings in the White House with his (let's be charitable and call it) Nationalist agenda? His handlers probably recognized the conflict of interest hurt them more politically than it did Trump financially, and they wanted him in power, so they tell him to deny any connection, rather than say "so what if I do?" We have heard so often his policy position is often the last thing he heard on the news that day, so it's pretty easy to imagine him being manipulated by his underlings to suit their needs, and just parroting the lines they feed him. As long as they remind him how popular he is and feed his ego with these rallies, he will think they have his back and go along with what they say. And getting back to what he fears most, I don't think it is not being liked that worries him, it is being outed as a weakling, when he has to project this tough New Yorker bully mindset. So he doubles down rather than admit defeat. That's why the Pelosi play on the wall shutdown (and the staged Oval office meeting where they got him to own the shutdown on the record and hang himself with his own words) was such a political masterstroke. The ultimate dealmaker being out-manouvered on live TV.

Edited by TrueBlue4ever
Posted
8 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I go back to the debate with Hillary where she was asked why Putin feared her more than Trump, and she said Putin would rather have a puppet than a President. Trump took real umbrage at that quote, with a "I know you are but what am I?" schoolyard retort. Trump is a carnival barker, but isn't the underlying suspicion (and fear) that Stephen Miller is really the guy pulling the strings in the White House with his (let's be charitable and call it) Nationalist agenda? His handlers probably recognized the conflict of interest hurt them more politically than it did Trump financially, and they wanted him in power, so they tell him to deny any connection, rather than say "so what if I do?" We have heard so often his policy position is often the last thing he heard on the news that day, so it's pretty easy to imagine him being manipulated by his underlings to suit their needs, and just parroting the lines they feed him. As long as they remind him how popular he is and feed his ego with these rallies, he will think they have his back and go along with what they say. And getting back to what he fears most, I don't think it is not being liked that worries him, it is being outed as a weakling, when he has to project this tough New Yorker bully mindset. So he doubles down rather than admit defeat. That's why the Pelosi play on the wall shutdown (and the staged Oval office meeting where they got him to own the shutdown on the record and hang himself with his own words) was such a political masterstroke. The ultimate dealmaker being out-manouvered on live TV.

Yup and the one consistent thing about Trump is he routinely accuses his opponents of things he's done.  Major projecting. lol

Posted (edited)

Watched this thing.   Some observations.

Thought that some Democratic members were cheerleading, a bit too hard.   Cohen was a manipulative, greedy amoral person who both committed and aided in multiple felonies.   Was going to add arrogant, but a lot of that seems to have been beaten out of him, at this point  Mr. Cleaver he is not.    The idea...alluded to by both Cohen and a couple of Dem members, that he was some kind of regular joe, who got `caught up` in some sort of a ``vortex`` is laughable.    

That said, his testimony came through as pretty authentic - as the fixer who executed Trump`s wishes and schemes.  Mueller has and knows too much - any lying to that committee, would simply result in more jail time.   Cohen had nothing to gain and everything to lose by lying, yesterday

He very precisely detailed the methodology and method, on how he and Trump committed campaign finance felonies, paying off a Playboy bunny and a porn star.....as well as provided hard evidence, with some of the cheques.
Cohen put yet another torpedo into the Trump family and its phoney baloney Trump tower meetings narrative.   He also did the same for Trump and Stone`s `non-involvement`with Wikileaks.

As far as the Moscow Trump tower:
 

Quote

``Mr. Trump knew of and directed the Trump Moscow negotiations throughout the campaign and lied about it, and then made clear to me that he wanted me to lie to Congress``


Cohen also gave a bit of a road map towards a potential host of collateral crimes (something I had been waiting for) such as insurance, bank, and tax fraud.  He also mentioned that the Trump organizations CEO (who has a agreement with Mueller) could and would providing supporting evidence.

As far as Cohen describing Trump as being a racist, con man and a cheat........ strictly news at 11 stuff.

Watching the Republican members was a bit surreal.  They did not ask a single question about ANY of Cohen`s accusations,  and for the most part, didn`t really defend Trump.   Instead we got a box barrage of insults and immense faux outrage about having a ``liar`having the audacity to appear before the committee. (a first in American history or something!)   Not surprisingly, the Freedom Caucus Bobsey Twins.....Jim Jordan and Mark Meadows were front and center

Cohen did finally nail this topic for the Republican interrogators near the end:

Quote

“I did the same thing you are doing now for 10 years. I protected Mr. Trump for 10 years.” He added: “People who follow Mr. Trump blindly will suffer the same consequences I’m suffering.”

 

 

Edited by do or die
Posted (edited)

I agree with the cheerleading comment. They would justify it based on the partisan display by the GOP on the other side, which was just as skewed, which is why I just read his opening statement and took it on face value as the truth until someone caught him in a lie on cross-examination with the questions, like JWR in Canada. In this case, since the Repubs ASKED NO QUESTIONS about his statement and went the character assassination route, his story held up. Same with JWR in Canada. The only dent Cohen might have taken was the position that he did not want a White House job and didn't get it as motivation for lying now to get revenge on Trump. I think easy to admit you wanted it and were offered it but declined due to conflict (he did most of this but refused to admit that he wanted the job in the first place) when even a pro-Cohen media outlet like CNN refutes that part of his story. Easier to deflect talk of personal gain (like the book deal angle) by saying "You think I lied, covered up, got caught and am going to prison and would keep perpetuating that lie for more prison time because I can score a big book deal, and that seems like a fair trade off to you?"

Edited by TrueBlue4ever
Posted
11 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I agree with the cheerleading comment. They would justify it based on the partisan display by the GOP on the other side, which was just as skewed, which is why I just read his opening statement and took it on face value as the truth until someone caught him in a lie on cross-examination with the questions, like JWR in Canada. In this case, since the Repubs ASKED NO QUESTIONS about his statement and went the character assassination route, his story held up. Same with JWR in Canada. The only dent Cohen might have taken was the position that he did not want a White House job and didn't get it as motivation for lying now to get revenge on Trump. I think easy to admit you wanted it and were offered it but declined due to conflict (he did most of this but refused to admit that he wanted the job in the first place) when even a pro-Cohen media outlet like CNN refutes that part of his story. Easier to deflect talk of personal gain (like the book deal angle) by saying "You think I lied, covered up, got caught and am going to prison and would keep perpetuating that lie for more prison time because I can score a big book deal, and that seems like a fair trade off to you?"

it was a laughably shameful display by the GOP throughout.  If they applied the same standards and displayed the same faux outrage to Trump that they did Cohen, he'd be toast.  

*Gasp*, Cohen might write a book.  Trump is raking in millions from being President.

Posted
18 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

I agree with the cheerleading comment. They would justify it based on the partisan display by the GOP on the other side, which was just as skewed, which is why I just read his opening statement and took it on face value as the truth until someone caught him in a lie on cross-examination with the questions, like JWR in Canada. In this case, since the Repubs ASKED NO QUESTIONS about his statement and went the character assassination route, his story held up. Same with JWR in Canada. The only dent Cohen might have taken was the position that he did not want a White House job and didn't get it as motivation for lying now to get revenge on Trump. I think easy to admit you wanted it and were offered it but declined due to conflict (he did most of this but refused to admit that he wanted the job in the first place) when even a pro-Cohen media outlet like CNN refutes that part of his story. Easier to deflect talk of personal gain (like the book deal angle) by saying "You think I lied, covered up, got caught and am going to prison and would keep perpetuating that lie for more prison time because I can score a big book deal, and that seems like a fair trade off to you?"

It was amazing how unprepared they seemed. No one was capable of a cross-examination. They were truly unarmed. 

Even AOC used Cohen's testimony to set up a call for the Trump family tax returns. The GOP did nothing. A clear example of how poor they are at their jobs. 

Posted

In my above comments I neglected to mention Mark Meadows bringing in Donald Trump’s (only) African-American staffer Lynne Patton to the House Oversight Committee, and having her standing high up, in the asle, like some kind of trophy wife....to `prove`that Donald Trump is not a racist.

Hoorah

Posted
1 minute ago, do or die said:

In my above comments I neglected to mention Mark Meadows bringing in Donald Trump’s (only) African-American staffer Lynne Patton to the House Oversight Committee, and having her standing high up, in the asle, like some kind of trophy wife....to `prove`that Donald Trump is not a racist.

Hoorah

 

THE Mark "Not A Racist, Just play one on TV" Meadows 

 "2012 is the time we are going to send Mr. Obama home to Kenya or wherever it is."

Posted (edited)

Lying to perpetuate lies about previous lies.  
Don`t know how else to summarize this.   Trump, his administration, and many of his supporters, are really something else...........

Edited by do or die
Posted (edited)

 At the instigation and direction of Trump.....Cohen lied to the IRS, banks, creditors, the Congress and perhaps, the First Lady.     We now know, those were not lies, just process crimes.

Edited by do or die
Posted
1 minute ago, pigseye said:

It's getting right out of hand now, the Mueller Report can't come soon enough. 

What is getting out of hand?  Trump's meltdowns?  Congress is doing it's job and following evidence.  Regardless of the Mueller report, they are going to investigate as they should.

I can see the claim of political bias but it was also political bias for the GOP to ignore Trump's antics for two years.  Ofcourse, you've got the SDNY with numerous investigations too....unless they're politically bias.

If Congress ignored this stuff, they'd be in dereliction of their sworn oath.  You cant let a President operate as a mob boss.

Posted
9 minutes ago, pigseye said:

It's getting right out of hand now, the Mueller Report can't come soon enough. 

 

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What is getting out of hand?  Trump's meltdowns?  Congress is doing it's job and following evidence.  Regardless of the Mueller report, they are going to investigate as they should.

I can see the claim of political bias but it was also political bias for the GOP to ignore Trump's antics for two years.  Ofcourse, you've got the SDNY with numerous investigations too....unless they're politically bias.

If Congress ignored this stuff, they'd be in dereliction of their sworn oath.  You cant let a President operate as a mob boss.

I think that's what he means- the trump as mob boss and treating the presidency as a side hustle is getting out of hand. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

What is getting out of hand?  Trump's meltdowns?  Congress is doing it's job and following evidence.  Regardless of the Mueller report, they are going to investigate as they should.

I can see the claim of political bias but it was also political bias for the GOP to ignore Trump's antics for two years.  Ofcourse, you've got the SDNY with numerous investigations too....unless they're politically bias.

If Congress ignored this stuff, they'd be in dereliction of their sworn oath.  You cant let a President operate as a mob boss.

It's a complete gong show on both sides. Elections decide who governs, not the politicians.  

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