US Politics

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Because they elected a right wing populist last time, and honestly given how shitty that worked out I think a left wing populist certainly would have had wide ranging appeal across all sorts of people. 

Honestly I know you think this moderate **** is where it's at, but there is no moderate in the United States, which is why populism is becoming more what people are looking for. 

 

Biden inspires no one. He will win because Trump is a tremendous **** up pissing everyone off, but he's a terrible candidate at this time. 4 years ago maybe he'd be better but he's losing his mind and same old same old isn't going to appeal to anyone other than the establishment. 

Its possible that Biden will flop.  But he's been the front runner from day one.  So all those left wing populists just werent carrying the polling.  Id get behind Warren.  But Crazy Bernie is just too easy to frame as a nut.  It swings moderates to Trump.  Remember, there are going to be a lot of right leaning voters that voted from Trump because he was the conservative candidate that will not want to vote for him this time.  Holding your nose and voting Dem is one thing.  Voting for Bernie?  Not happening.

Biden might flop and lose.  Bernie would have lost.  He'd have been a fantastic cheerleader for the left and for a lot of amazing and needed reforms and policies.  And everyone would cheer him on.  And they could feel really good about it.  And they'd lose.

If there is a sense that Bernie supporters wont vote for Biden, then they're crazy, plain and simple.  You dont vote for Trump or stay home (which is a vote for Trump) because you'd rather the alt right racist serial sexual abuser win than the Democrat who just isnt left enough.

Wait til the party really begins campaigning.  Who's voting against 4 more years of Obama?  No one and once he's in this thing, look out.

[Tracker]

12 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Yeah, I didnt love the Biden pick either.  Didnt like the optics of old white guy.  But his polling was top notch from day one.  And remember, his President, Obama, has said virtually nothing yet.  He will.

Biden will win and will be a one term President.  His VP pick is so important.  I think Kamala is a likely choice (but there are others).  Whomever becomes VP is the presumptive President in 2024.  

Kamala Harris is a probable pick for VP but I do not like her track record on civil rights.

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Tracker said:

Kamala Harris is a probable pick for VP but I do not like her track record on civil rights.

In terms of her law & order background?

[Tracker]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

In terms of her law & order background?

Yes. 

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Yes. 

Yeah, some aspects might work in her favour in terms of appealing to some of the moderates.  Her positions are pretty strongly aligned with the general Democrats.  I like that she supports a transition to Medicare for All.  She supported Bernie's plan and then came up with a, somewhat confusing, transitional plan.  But she wants to get there.  She has an F rating from the NRA so thats a good thing lol

Sen. Amy K is the other front runner for VP.

[17to85]

7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Its possible that Biden will flop.  But he's been the front runner from day one.  So all those left wing populists just werent carrying the polling.  Id get behind Warren.  But Crazy Bernie is just too easy to frame as a nut.  It swings moderates to Trump.  Remember, there are going to be a lot of right leaning voters that voted from Trump because he was the conservative candidate that will not want to vote for him this time.  Holding your nose and voting Dem is one thing.  Voting for Bernie?  Not happening.

Biden might flop and lose.  Bernie would have lost.  He'd have been a fantastic cheerleader for the left and for a lot of amazing and needed reforms and policies.  And everyone would cheer him on.  And they could feel really good about it.  And they'd lose.

If there is a sense that Bernie supporters wont vote for Biden, then they're crazy, plain and simple.  You dont vote for Trump or stay home (which is a vote for Trump) because you'd rather the alt right racist serial sexual abuser win than the Democrat who just isnt left enough.

Wait til the party really begins campaigning.  Who's voting against 4 more years of Obama?  No one and once he's in this thing, look out.

I think you are looking at this entirely too much as a left vs. right issue. 

That's why I bring up the populism. Populism transcends left or right.It's founded in people's emotions and feelings. Trump told a lot of people things would be great with his brand of populism. Turns out he's pissing people off. But you get a guy saying "my brand of populism is good for you" it can turn people on. Now the catch is that the media will never give a guy like Bernie a fair shake cause they're all deep pockets people who don't want to pay taxes, so a "moderate" is going to be the guy they pump. 

You can not discount the impact that media has on forming people's early opinions. However once you get through the bullshit of the campaigns to even be the nominee (which in my opinion do much more harm than good) you'd just have one guy touting his ideas to the public. Honestly I think Bernie is the pefect kind of crazy old man to cut through Trumps bullshit. I don't see Biden as that guy.

Bernie wasn't ever my favourite choice, but I think he was the right choice given how everything else played out and he is much needed by the United States right now. Biden is the status quo and will just lead to further republican shenanigans going forward. 

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I think you are looking at this entirely too much as a left vs. right issue. 

That's why I bring up the populism. Populism transcends left or right.It's founded in people's emotions and feelings. Trump told a lot of people things would be great with his brand of populism. Turns out he's pissing people off. But you get a guy saying "my brand of populism is good for you" it can turn people on. Now the catch is that the media will never give a guy like Bernie a fair shake cause they're all deep pockets people who don't want to pay taxes, so a "moderate" is going to be the guy they pump. 

You can not discount the impact that media has on forming people's early opinions. However once you get through the bullshit of the campaigns to even be the nominee (which in my opinion do much more harm than good) you'd just have one guy touting his ideas to the public. Honestly I think Bernie is the pefect kind of crazy old man to cut through Trumps bullshit. I don't see Biden as that guy.

Bernie wasn't ever my favourite choice, but I think he was the right choice given how everything else played out and he is much needed by the United States right now. Biden is the status quo and will just lead to further republican shenanigans going forward. 

You could be right and if Bernie was the nominee, I'd have been all for it.    I actually think Biden being pretty bland will not work for him but also not work against him.  He will always seem calm, measured and competent next to Trump.  And he's very good at coming across as an aw shucks grandfatherly type.  Yeah, that sounds boring when we have more dynamic options.  But the VP will be dynamic (I hope).  And again, wait for Obama to get in this thing.

Any time Biden makes a mistake and Trump gets one on him, Obama can give a speech and take all of Trumps venom.  And people will not like that.  The key thing is, if this is a middle of the road, relatively boring and traditional campaign, Biden wins easily.  No cheating.  No health issue (which is possible for both guys).  No scandal (important for Biden because Trump's base doesnt care obviously).

[17to85]

7 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

He will always seem calm, measured and competent next to Trump.

a hyperactive 5 year old would be seen as calm measured and competent next to Trump. 

[Tracker]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You could be right and if Bernie was the nominee, I'd have been all for it.    I actually think Biden being pretty bland will not work for him but also not work against him.  He will always seem calm, measured and competent next to Trump.  And he's very good at coming across as an aw shucks grandfatherly type.  Yeah, that sounds boring when we have more dynamic options.  But the VP will be dynamic (I hope).  And again, wait for Obama to get in this thing.

Any time Biden makes a mistake and Trump gets one on him, Obama can give a speech and take all of Trumps venom.  And people will not like that.  The key thing is, if this is a middle of the road, relatively boring and traditional campaign, Biden wins easily.  No cheating.  No health issue (which is possible for both guys).  No scandal (important for Biden because Trump's base doesn't care obviously).

Trump called it right when he said he could shoot someone in the street and his base would still vote for him. He, as all malignant narcissists, has no compunction in lying, cheating, or sacrificing anyone else to gain his ends. Adolph Hitler had the excuse of being a drug-addled meth-head, but Trump is wholly responsible for the death and division he is causing. He would have no hesitancy in advocating violence to his followers.

[Tracker]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

a hyperactive 5 year old would be seen as calm measured and competent next to Trump. 

A ferret on crystal meth would look calm and competent by comparison.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Tracker

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, do or die said:

Down voting was a big reason all Republicans wanted Bernie.....so they could tar all Democrat candidates, for House and Senate, with the ole crazed socialist label.  Biden would work best as some sort of rational, calming daddy figurehead.....spark and fire (as well as the bare knuckles) will have to be provided by the VP pick

Yeah- it seems the Democratic party is focusing more on retaining the House and trying to get the Senate instead of taking the Presidency. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

39 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Its possible that Biden will flop.  But he's been the front runner from day one. 

Except for the first couple of weeks when there was actual voting where he couldn't finish top 3

 

[TrueBlue4ever]

I could not see Bernie winning against Trump. Not because he is crazy or that his ideas aren’t good for the country. The simple thing is that this is the US. Trump got elected for a number of reasons, but one of the big ones is the simple mindset of the USA that “we are #1” (the only thing Dems and Repubs could truly agree on) And are the best at everything, especially our democracy and economy, from which we derive our strength, even if the outside world knows it’s patently false. They are not #1 in education, health care, standard of living. They are #1 in Incarceration rates and population percentage believing in God, and #2 in per capita gun deaths. They don’t think like the rest of the world does. They have had capitalism drummed into their heads for so long that no matter how much sense saving the planet or universal health care or social safety nets make (and this pandemic is making a pretty good case for this stuff) I don’t think that matters much to a “me first, my personal rights supersede everything else” mentality that feels overwhelming at times in the states. A moderate voice that doesn’t scare people is what will win in the US for Democrats, not a radical shift to the left to counter the hard right shift. JMO. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by TrueBlue4ever

[Floyd]

2 hours ago, do or die said:

Down voting was a big reason all Republicans wanted Bernie.....so they could tar all Democrat candidates, for House and Senate, with the ole crazed socialist label.  Biden would work best as some sort of rational, calming daddy figurehead.....spark and fire (as well as the bare knuckles) will have to be provided by the VP pick

Except people don't want that...  these are extreme times - people want change

Even with Kamala Harris, Biden is going to get creamed - Dems making all the same mistakes as 2016 - and everyone is kind of making all the same justifications for their candidate

 

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Except people don't want that...  these are extreme times - people want change

Even with Kamala Harris, Biden is going to get creamed - Dems making all the same mistakes as 2016 - and everyone is kind of making all the same justifications for their candidate

 

If all the people want change, why did Biden keep topping polls and winning primaries?  YOU want change.  That doesnt translate to everyone.  Although obviously the majority do want change, but they want change they trust.  Why did Obama win?  Not because he embraced far left ideas, regardless of how good they might be.  The "change" candidate was nothing like Bernie.

[Floyd]

41 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I think you are looking at this entirely too much as a left vs. right issue. 

That's why I bring up the populism. Populism transcends left or right.It's founded in people's emotions and feelings. Trump told a lot of people things would be great with his brand of populism. Turns out he's pissing people off. But you get a guy saying "my brand of populism is good for you" it can turn people on. Now the catch is that the media will never give a guy like Bernie a fair shake cause they're all deep pockets people who don't want to pay taxes, so a "moderate" is going to be the guy they pump. 

You can not discount the impact that media has on forming people's early opinions. However once you get through the bullshit of the campaigns to even be the nominee (which in my opinion do much more harm than good) you'd just have one guy touting his ideas to the public. Honestly I think Bernie is the pefect kind of crazy old man to cut through Trumps bullshit. I don't see Biden as that guy.

Bernie wasn't ever my favourite choice, but I think he was the right choice given how everything else played out and he is much needed by the United States right now. Biden is the status quo and will just lead to further republican shenanigans going forward. 

Agree totally.  Except this time I think Trump has an advantage because this is a 'war-time' situation... Americans will not want wholesale change.

I think we are once again under-estimating not how much people hate Trump but how much they hate politicians in the states...

Trump will get votes because large blocks of the country will not be affected by covid, he will throw some money at people, he's stealing $10 trillion for the stock market so its already bumping up and most importantly - it seems like when he speaks its genuine - even if its crazy awful mean lies...  

Biden starts stumbling even while reading his teleprompter - its not good - Trump will lure him into a Howard Dean moment and sink him

I'd be surprised if we don't see Trump with the Republican congress and senate - scary thought.

[17to85]

1 minute ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Why did Obama win? 

Wasn't his whole campaign based around hope and change?

Trump won because he was the anti-establishment candidate. 

 

The people deep down, they want change. The establishment they want status quo. Hillary was that, Biden is that. It jsut doesn't resonate with a populace that is feeling every more disenfranchised. 

[Floyd]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

If all the people want change, why did Biden keep topping polls and winning primaries?  YOU want change.  That doesnt translate to everyone.  Although obviously the majority do want change, but they want change they trust.  Why did Obama win?  Not because he embraced far left ideas, regardless of how good they might be.  The "change" candidate was nothing like Bernie.

You don't remember much about pre-White House Obama...  Change and Hope was a far left campaign.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, Floyd said:

You don't remember much about pre-White House Obama...  Change and Hope was a far left campaign.

huh?  Obama ran on change and hope.  Mostly words.  And the idea was change from W.  Easy to get behind for most people.  He didnt run on universal health care and cancelling all student debt and other far left ideas.  Obama was a lot of sizzle and didnt need much steak.  Obama sure wasnt Bernie.  

You're making the mistake of painting Biden as a same old same old.  The Dems winning, regardless of who it is, is a BIG change.  Heck, a normal republican beating Trump would be a big change.  I like Bernie too, but he was not going to win.  And guess what, he didnt get the nomination.  He didnt have the support.  Vocal minority doesnt translate to majority support.

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Wasn't his whole campaign based around hope and change?

Trump won because he was the anti-establishment candidate. 

 

The people deep down, they want change. The establishment they want status quo. Hillary was that, Biden is that. It jsut doesn't resonate with a populace that is feeling every more disenfranchised. 

Conflating "hope" and "change" with "far left" is not accurate.  Change from W.  Hope for a better future.  How is that different than Biden...the guy who was in Obama's White House?  All the Dems are "hope" and "change".  

[Floyd]

24 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

huh?  Obama ran on change and hope.  Mostly words.  And the idea was change from W.  Easy to get behind for most people.  He didnt run on universal health care and cancelling all student debt and other far left ideas.  Obama was a lot of sizzle and didnt need much steak.  Obama sure wasnt Bernie.  

You're making the mistake of painting Biden as a same old same old.  The Dems winning, regardless of who it is, is a BIG change.  Heck, a normal republican beating Trump would be a big change.  I like Bernie too, but he was not going to win.  And guess what, he didnt get the nomination.  He didnt have the support.  Vocal minority doesnt translate to majority support.

Not much to say if you somehow believe that Obama's campaign wasn't populist and wasn't about more than "I'm not GWB'...  

He was a fringe candidate at the start who gained momentum because there was substance - that's why he destroyed the 'safe' candidate in Hillary.

Obama's healthcare plan back then was considered just as 'crazy' as Bernie's plan is now... 

Biden has no platform - he's a weak candidate who relies on Obama showing up and doing everything for him.  If he wins, its ALL on Obama - but I don't see it.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

BTW, if anyone sees the Grey Cup on TSN let me know cause i still have not seen it except for the last 5 minutes.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

36 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

BTW, if anyone sees the Grey Cup on TSN let me know cause i still have not seen it except for the last 5 minutes.

you can watch it on youtube

 

[The Unknown Poster]

3 hours ago, Floyd said:

Not much to say if you somehow believe that Obama's campaign wasn't populist and wasn't about more than "I'm not GWB'...  

He was a fringe candidate at the start who gained momentum because there was substance - that's why he destroyed the 'safe' candidate in Hillary.

Obama's healthcare plan back then was considered just as 'crazy' as Bernie's plan is now... 

Biden has no platform - he's a weak candidate who relies on Obama showing up and doing everything for him.  If he wins, its ALL on Obama - but I don't see it.

If you don’t know the huge difference between Obama and Bernie, well....

[The Unknown Poster]

That’s trump at his most popular due to the crises.