US Politics

[17to85]

1 minute ago, HardCoreBlue said:

To your point my guess is he scores very low on his EQ and quite high on his IQ.  It’s been shown a persons EQ is a much better indicator for their behaviour than their IQ. That’s why high performing organizations place more emphasis on EQ than IQ. A certain level of IQ is needed but  high performing workplaces hire more on attitude. As John Maxwell put it. ‘People  may hear your words, but they feel your attitude.’

I totally buy that. I've done consulting work for almost 15 years now and I've worked for all sorts of people and I can tell you the worst people to work for are the assholes who don't recognize that you're a person with **** going on that isn't related to whatever project they've hired you for. 

[do or die]

Historically, both the alt-right and the religious right have shared certain "values"  You can also add the "economic nationalists" of the Steve Bannon ilk.

White "victimization" narratives
Bigotry
Racism
Antidemocratic and authoritarian impulses
Xenophobic and isolationist thought

These "ideals" used to stay  somewhat at the fringes of American political thought.  The GOP (even with some sympathies for this line of thought) used to at least keep most of this at arms length, in order to pursue electoral success.  

Now there is a President who has actually enabled this stuff to come out into the mainstream, and essentially hi-jack the Republican party.  Trump is willing to use and abuse any tool - judicial, legislative, or executive.....to hold and expand his power.  The failure of House and Senate Republicans to put up any resistance to all of this is simply epic. (and in terms of future democratic norms, totally inane and down right stupid)  The dangers of this approach, are becoming more glaringly apparent, by the day..... 

Only solution is to dump Trump and send GOP legislators into the hinterland, for quite a long time.

Edited June 2, 2020 by do or die

[bigg jay]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

So a typical guy in IT then?  

Why do people think that if someone is mega-rich that they are someone that the general public should listen and actually a give a **** on what they say. 

[Tracker]

Australian government wants to probe violent assault on journalists by police in Washington, DC

The “Justice for George Floyd” protests have found some police officers abusing not only nonviolent demonstrators, but also, journalists who were covering the protests — and some officials in the Australian government, according to the Straits Times, are investigating a police attack on two Australian journalists outside the White House on June 1.

A video, the Straits Times reports, shows Australian journalist Amelia Brace “being clubbed with a truncheon” by Washington, D.C. police and her cameraman Tim Myers, “being hit with a riot shield and punched in the face by police clearing Washington’s Lafayette Square of protesters on Monday.” And the disturbing incident has been widely broadcast in Australia.

Marise Payne, Australia’s minster of foreign affairs, noted, “We have asked the Australian embassy in Washington, D.C. to investigate this incident. I want to get further advice on how we would go about registering Australia’s strong concerns with the responsible local authorities in Washington.”

Brace and Myers were shot with rubber bullets and teargassed, as were many nonviolent protestors at Lafayette Square in Washington, D.C.

https://www.alternet.org/2020/06/australian-government-wants-to-probe-violent-assault-on-journalists-by-police-in-washington-dc/

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Trump is a bully who threatens lawsuits but never follows through because he cant handle a deposition. I think he'd take the election to SCOTUS because he wouldnt have to say anything.  And he desperately needs to avoid being a citizen again because he and perhaps his family are going to be inundated with criminal investigations.

And I think a lot of the GOP cant stand him.  They just love power more than they hate trump.  If Trump loses, they will be rats off the sinking ship and he'll be alone in the wilderness.  Especially if its a big loss.  GOP will see the way the wind is blowing and running harder to the left and becoming the part of racists will guarantee the end of the party.  Plus, Trump likely forms his own party anyway.  GOP will have to move to the centre to have a hope, especially if they see the future of the Dems as a further left-leaning party.  The battle for power will be in the middle.

I would not be surprised to see him have an exit strategy in place where he bolts the country to go to some extradiction-free zone. Saudi Arabia, Russia? He has properties in a lot of countries. 

[HardCoreBlue]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

Great reminder. You're not born with the 'ideals' of a deranged idiot (insert these multiple 'ideals' here).

Deranged idiots influence others to become deranged idiots. 

[Tracker]

If the GOP has any survival instincts at all left, they will take the initiative and move to impeach Trump themselves. After yet another debacle which has once again exposed Trump for the inept, racist, fascist fool that he is, his popularity ought to plummet like a stone in a well. However, this is the nouveau-alt-right America we are talking about, and maybe Trump's approval ratings will hold. If his rating fall, as they would in any sane country, the GOP may well kick into survival mode and throw Trump under the bus.

[Tracker]

2 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Great reminder. You're not born with the 'ideals' of a deranged idiot (insert these multiple 'ideals' here).

Deranged idiots influence others to become deranged idiots. 

You need to remember that any plant reflects the soil it has grown in, and this is the case for Trump.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 minute ago, Tracker said:

You need to remember that any plant reflects the soil it has grown in, and this is the case for Trump.

Nice. Another great analogy. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

7 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If the GOP has any survival instincts at all left, they will take the initiative and move to impeach Trump themselves. After yet another debacle which has once again exposed Trump for the inept, racist, fascist fool that he is, his popularity ought to plummet like a stone in a well. However, this is the nouveau-alt-right America we are talking about, and maybe Trump's approval ratings will hold. If his rating fall, as they would in any sane country, the GOP may well kick into survival mode and throw Trump under the bus.

Remember that historically a President's approval ratings have jumped significantly during war time. The highest rated President of all time was Bush 1 during the Gulf War, at 94% or something like that. He would see it disappear within 2 years and he was gone, but the spike was there. Same for Bush 2 after 9/11, and we all see how that war turned out. Trump labelled himself as the "law and order" President, and if his show of force quells the insurrection, I still believe a lot of "oh, look how tough our President (and we as well) is!" followers boost his numbers. Common-sense? No. In keeping with the cowboy way of Americans? Absolutely.

I'm wondering what the protestors' next move is. More mayhem undercuts the President's attempt to prove his strength and that he has it under control, but he has crossed that line now and I think he'd push even harder now - out-and-out violence and death to protestors, violent and non alike, would not be off the table. And more looting only hurts their image and distorts the orignal point of the protest which is systemic racism and police brutality. So how to keep the message loud and the protest strong without devolving into anarchy, when both extreme sides of Antifa (because the non-peaceful approach isn't working and now you'll notice us) and white supremacist infiltrators (to undercut the legitimacy of the protest and paint BLM as domestic terrorists) are looking to cause a disturbance, and the general run-of-the-mill idiots who see an opportunity to steal and pillage for personal profit or just sh*ts and giggles will join in too. Then that gives the green light and moral high ground to the President, police, and military to yell "threat to all decent law-abiding Americans!" and go in in attack mode.

Who will be the unifying voice to lead the protestors but also demand peace and accountability like Dr. King did, but also can weed out the undesirables from within and keep them from subverting the message with looting and violence? I don't think that's really Biden's job here. He needs to be more a conciliator, not a counter-Government protest leader.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

What an ass

 

 

Hard to imagine...?

 

Don't get me wrong... I wasn't a huge supporter of many of Obama's policies, but he was all class.

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Wideleft]

3 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Remember that historically a President's approval ratings have jumped significantly during war time. The highest rated President of all time was Bush 1 during the Gulf War, at 94% or something like that. He would see it disappear within 2 years and he was gone, but the spike was there. Same for Bush 2 after 9/11, and we all see how that war turned out. Trump labelled himself as the "law and order" President, and if his show of force quells the insurrection, I still believe a lot of "oh, look how tough our President (and we as well) is!" followers boost his numbers. Common-sense? No. In keeping with the cowboy way of Americans? Absolutely.

I'm wondering what the protestors' next move is. More mayhem undercuts the President's attempt to prove his strength and that he has it under control, but he has crossed that line now and I think he'd push even harder now - out-and-out violence and death to protestors, violent and non alike, would not be off the table. And more looting only hurts their image and distorts the orignal point of the protest which is systemic racism and police brutality. So how to keep the message loud and the protest strong without devolving into anarchy, when both extreme sides of Antifa (because the non-peaceful approach isn't working and now you'll notice us) and white supremacist infiltrators (to undercut the legitimacy of the protest and paint BLM as domestic terrorists) are looking to cause a disturbance, and the general run-of-the-mill idiots who see an opportunity to steal and pillage for personal profit or just sh*ts and giggles will join in too. Then that gives the green light and moral high ground to the President, police, and military to yell "threat to all decent law-abiding Americans!" and go in in attack mode.

Who will be the unifying voice to lead the protestors but also demand peace and accountability like Dr. King did, but also can weed out the undesirables from within and keep them from subverting the message with looting and violence? I don't think that's really Biden's job here. He needs to be more a conciliator, not a counter-Government protest leader.

It's pretty hard to weed out undesirables who actually aren't part of your group/movement.  That would be a waste of energy.  They need to continue to register voters, fight measures to suppress voting, get people to the voting booths and stop the slide into tyranny.  They have to vote against racist sheriffs, mayors, district attorneys, county judges, congresspeople and senators.  Then they can catch their breath and start moving towards real change.

There is no quick easy fix here.

[HardCoreBlue]

31 minutes ago, Tracker said:

If the GOP has any survival instincts at all left, they will take the initiative and move to impeach Trump themselves. After yet another debacle which has once again exposed Trump for the inept, racist, fascist fool that he is, his popularity ought to plummet like a stone in a well. However, this is the nouveau-alt-right America we are talking about, and maybe Trump's approval ratings will hold. If his rating fall, as they would in any sane country, the GOP may well kick into survival mode and throw Trump under the bus.

Nope. They are way past the point of no return. The ending will be more like the ending of what happened in Waco Texas some years back.

[Mr Dee]

1 minute ago, HardCoreBlue said:

The ending will be more like the ending of what happened in Waco Texas some years back.

And become known as what happened to Whacko..

[Wideleft]

3 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

Don't get me wrong... I wasn't a huge supporter of Obama, but he was all class.

 

I was a huge supporter of Obama even though I did not always agree with his go-slow approach or some of his decisions.  In retrospect, I realize that never in the history of that country was a man under so much pressure not to f things up.  

He still managed to leave the country in a far better place than when he started.  He's a good human being and I will always support those types.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

Whoa.... whoa... whoa... the hell?

 

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

Just now, Wideleft said:

I was a huge supporter of Obama even though I did not always agree with his go-slow approach or some of his decisions.  In retrospect, I realize that never in the history of that country was a man under so much pressure not to f things up.  

He still managed to leave the country in a far better place than when he started.  He's a good human being and I will always support those types.

True. I just wished he would have enacted better change when he had all three branches. Still miffed about his drone policy and how he handled Flint. But yeah- he's a genuinely good person.

[TrueBlue4ever]

17 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

It's pretty hard to weed out undesirables who actually aren't part of your group/movement.  That would be a waste of energy.  They need to continue to register voters, fight measures to suppress voting, get people to the voting booths and stop the slide into tyranny.  They have to vote against racist sheriffs, mayors, district attorneys, county judges, congresspeople and senators.  Then they can catch their breath and start moving towards real change.

There is no quick easy fix here.

That's the long game. What about short-term and these protests? Continue, and deal with the collateral damage of unrest and an authoritarian Government response, or back down now and move on to the long game, giving Trump a victory for now in his "law and order" actions?

[Jpan85]

If you want to see what kind of leadship the US has right now read this thread

 

[Tracker]

6 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

True. I just wished he would have enacted better change when he had all three branches. Still miffed about his drone policy and how he handled Flint. But yeah- he's a genuinely good person.

Obama was hamstrung by his own party, and there was not and is not all that much difference between the GOP and DNC. The Democrats are fearful of alienating those voters who have supported the GOP for generations and are unlikely to ever change. This has been the fallacy in the thinking of the Democrats- trying to woo the intractable voters. The Democrats and America would be best served to proceed vigorously with a progressive agenda, knowing full well that they will be vilified by every conceivable insult, threat and dire prediction the GOP, the 1%, big business and the evangelical right can throw at them for the next ten years. Trump exemplifies the  worst of America and the GOP and if the electorate is sickened by what their country is being deformed into, a moment may come when the sane majority will accept that "radical" change is the only remedy, or they will be reliving this horror in another 20 years, only even more violent and chaotic. 

[Wideleft]

3 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

That's the long game. What about short-term and these protests? Continue, and deal with the collateral damage of unrest and an authoritarian Government response, or back down now and move on to the long game, giving Trump a victory for now in his "law and order" actions?

If rumours are true that the other 3 cops are about to be arrested, then a pause should be declared.  That would take Trump right out of the equation.  If the charges don't stick, then we're in for another round.

[TrueBlue4ever]

Just now, Wideleft said:

If rumours are true that the other 3 cops are about to be arrested, then a pause should be declared.  That would take Trump right out of the equation.  If the charges don't stick, then we're in for another round.

That's actually a really good out strategy for the protestors. Can say they've been heard with the other 3 arrests, and they see the need for healing and unity that the President does not. Good call.

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, Tracker said:

Obama was hamstrung by his own party, and there was not and is not all that much difference between the GOP and DNC. The Democrats are fearful of alienating those voters who have supported the GOP for generations and are unlikely to ever change. This has been the fallacy in the thinking of the Democrats- trying to woo the intractable voters. The Democrats and America would be best served to proceed vigorously with a progressive agenda, knowing full well that they will be vilified by every conceivable insult, threat and dire prediction the GOP, the 1%, big business and the evangelical right can throw at them for the next ten years. Trump exemplifies the  worst of America and the GOP and if the electorate is sickened by what their country is being deformed into, a moment may come when the sane majority will accept that "radical" change is the only remedy, or they will be reliving this horror in another 20 years, only even more violent and chaotic. 

There has never been a better time to show people how different the country would be under Democrats.  I really don't think stark differences in policy would be a bad thing at this point.

[Tracker]

9 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

If rumours are true that the other 3 cops are about to be arrested, then a pause should be declared.  That would take Trump right out of the equation.  If the charges don't stick, then we're in for another round.

The problem is that a) they are not likely to come to trial for months, perhaps years and b) they are unlikely to be convicted.

[FrostyWinnipeg]