US Politics

[JCon]

1 minute ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Wow... seriously- this is all the GQP has left?

 

How does one even continue to be a republican at this point?

Racism and knowing that you'll stay in power by making it impossible to vote unless you're a fellow racist? 

Edited April 23, 2021 by JCon

[Mark F]

This is frightening..

David Brooks nyt conservative.

"The decent know that they must become ruthless. They must become the stuff of nightmares,” Jack Kerwick writes in the Trumpian magazine American Greatness. “The good man must spare not a moment to train, in both body and mind, to become the monster that he may need to become in order to slay the monsters that prey upon the vulnerable.”

With this view, the Jan. 6 insurrection was not a shocking descent into lawlessness but practice for the war ahead. A week after the siege, nearly a quarter of Republicans polled said violence can be acceptable to achieve political goals. William Saletan of Slate recently rounded up the evidence showing how many Republican politicians are now cheering the Jan. 6 crowd, voting against resolutions condemning them."

crazy stuff.

https://digbysblog.net/

 

[Tracker]

10 minutes ago, Mark F said:

This is frightening..

David Brooks nyt conservative.

"The decent know that they must become ruthless. They must become the stuff of nightmares,” Jack Kerwick writes in the Trumpian magazine American Greatness. “The good man must spare not a moment to train, in both body and mind, to become the monster that he may need to become in order to slay the monsters that prey upon the vulnerable.”

With this view, the Jan. 6 insurrection was not a shocking descent into lawlessness but practice for the war ahead. A week after the siege, nearly a quarter of Republicans polled said violence can be acceptable to achieve political goals. William Saletan of Slate recently rounded up the evidence showing how many Republican politicians are now cheering the Jan. 6 crowd, voting against resolutions condemning them."

crazy stuff.

https://digbysblog.net/

 

More than sad- it gives an alarming insight into the fascist mindset of many GOP supporters. In American history, it has been estimated by American historians that only about 25% of American colonists wanted independence (mostly because Britain had outlawed slavery and the colonists feared they would be next to be deprived of their cheap and plentiful labour). The 25% launched into a rhetorical crusade exaggerating  grievances and predicting all manner of dire consequences if they remained a colony and managed to create enough of a furor that many of the undecided went along with the movement. That England had a king who spoke no English and was probably mentally ill did not help. 

Legal expert warns there's an under-the-radar GOP plot that could create a future 'democratic crisis'
   
Civil rights groups have been lambasting Republicans for the many voter suppression bills they have been proposing in state legislatures all over the U.S., warning that the bills are designed to make it more difficult to vote. But election law expert Rick Hasen, in a New York Times article published this week, warns that making voting harder or more of a hassle is not the worst part of these bills — or in the case of Georgia's so-called Election Integrity Act of 2021, an actual law.

The most "dangerous" part of Republican voter suppression bills, according to Hasen, is the type of power they would give Republicans over the administration of elections.

Hasen is worried that Republicans want to give themselves the ability to throw out democratic election results that they don't like.

"A new, more dangerous front has opened in the voting wars, and it's going to be much harder to counteract than the now-familiar fight over voting rules," Hasen warns. "

Legal expert warns there's an under-the-radar GOP plot that could create a future 'democratic crisis' - Alternet.org

[Tracker]

 

 

                                 

[HardCoreBlue]

13 hours ago, Tracker said:

 

 

                                 

In that case we should rephrase it to she's running to be grifter of California.

[Tracker]

I would bet my last dollar that if it wasn't profitable, none of the neo-fascist supporters would exist.

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, Tracker said:

I would bet my last dollar that if it wasn't profitable, none of the neo-fascist supporters would exist.

agree.

if they could make more money, they would be Marxists. 

some of the rightest of right wingers started as arch left wing. 

[the watcher]

19 hours ago, Tracker said:

More than sad- it gives an alarming insight into the fascist mindset of many GOP supporters. In American history, it has been estimated by American historians that only about 25% of American colonists wanted independence (mostly because Britain had outlawed slavery and the colonists feared they would be next to be deprived of their cheap and plentiful labour). The 25% launched into a rhetorical crusade exaggerating  grievances and predicting all manner of dire consequences if they remained a colony and managed to create enough of a furor that many of the undecided went along with the movement. That England had a king who spoke no English and was probably mentally ill did not help. 

Legal expert warns there's an under-the-radar GOP plot that could create a future 'democratic crisis'
   
Civil rights groups have been lambasting Republicans for the many voter suppression bills they have been proposing in state legislatures all over the U.S., warning that the bills are designed to make it more difficult to vote. But election law expert Rick Hasen, in a New York Times article published this week, warns that making voting harder or more of a hassle is not the worst part of these bills — or in the case of Georgia's so-called Election Integrity Act of 2021, an actual law.

The most "dangerous" part of Republican voter suppression bills, according to Hasen, is the type of power they would give Republicans over the administration of elections.

Hasen is worried that Republicans want to give themselves the ability to throw out democratic election results that they don't like.

"A new, more dangerous front has opened in the voting wars, and it's going to be much harder to counteract than the now-familiar fight over voting rules," Hasen warns. "

Legal expert warns there's an under-the-radar GOP plot that could create a future 'democratic crisis' - Alternet.org

The comparison to pre- war Germany gets scarier all the time. The Germans weren't  an evil people. They were going through hard times in the depression . People were desperate for answers and solutions . They were given a target, some people to blame it on. They were promised jobs and a return of their national pride.  At first some restrictions on the people causing problems for their society seemed reasonable . Bit by bit the horrors that followed became the normal. At some point previously reasonable people looked down the barrel of a gun at a 5 year old child.......and squeezed the trigger.  I have studied enough history to know it can happen again. The world worries me now.

[Tracker]

31 minutes ago, the watcher said:

The comparison to pre- war Germany gets scarier all the time. The Germans weren't  an evil people. They were going through hard times in the depression . People were desperate for answers and solutions . They were given a target, some people to blame it on. They were promised jobs and a return of their national pride.  At first some restrictions on the people causing problems for their society seemed reasonable . Bit by bit the horrors that followed became the normal. At some point previously reasonable people looked down the barrel of a gun at a 5 year old child.......and squeezed the trigger.  I have studied enough history to know it can happen again. The world worries me now.

 

31 minutes ago, the watcher said:

The comparison to pre- war Germany gets scarier all the time. The Germans weren't  an evil people. They were going through hard times in the depression . People were desperate for answers and solutions . They were given a target, some people to blame it on. They were promised jobs and a return of their national pride.  At first some restrictions on the people causing problems for their society seemed reasonable . Bit by bit the horrors that followed became the normal. At some point previously reasonable people looked down the barrel of a gun at a 5 year old child.......and squeezed the trigger.  I have studied enough history to know it can happen again. The world worries me now.

Agreed. Trump and his cabal probably wanted the January 6th insurrection to be their "Reichstag incident" but it did not happen by a narrow margin. America will likely never know how close their country came to having Trump as their furher.  And he would have reveled in "saving America" from lawless ANTIFA terrorists by holding office "only until things settled down" while he and his stormtroopers destroyed all opposition. 

[Tracker]

Historian: The real patriots invaded the nation’s capital fifty years ago
   
They called their trip to Washington, D.C., an "invasion." Vowing not be "deterred or intimidated by police, government agents, [or] U.S. marshals," they arrived outfitted for war in fatigues and jungle boots with weapons and gas masks firmly in hand. Calling themselves "concerned citizens" and "patriots," they announced their intention to "protect the flag" by "stop[ing] all business as usual, until the government recognizes and responds positively to our demands."

No, these were not the self-professed patriots who stormed the U.S. Capitol Building on January 6, 2021.

This was back in 1971 when President Richard Nixon claimed to be fulfilling his campaign promise of "peace with honor" by lowering the number of American ground troops in Vietnam. Much to the horror of thousands of recently returned GIs, the civilian branch of the most vocal and sustained antiwar movement in American history took the bait and stopped protesting.

And thus, on the evening before Patriots' Day, twelve hundred members of Vietnam Veterans Against the War ("VVAW") arrived in Washington from around the country for what they called Operation Dewey Canyon III in a pointed rebuke of the recent American expansion of the air war into Laos under code names Operation Dewey Canyon I and II.

At first the public was confused. The men who descended on the nation's capital in olive drab, some with bandoliers strapped across their chests, did not look anything like the closely clipped GIs featured in the military recruiting posters plastering America's post offices. These guys had beards and long hair.

"Son, I don't think what you're doing is good for the troops," a Daughter of the American Revolution complained to one them, as the veterans marched past the DAR's Memorial Hall.

"Lady, we are the troops," was the ready reply.

After four days spent in such peaceable pursuits as lobbying their congresspeople, laying funeral wreaths at Arlington National Ceremony for both the American and the Vietnamese dead, holding a candlelight vigil at the White House, and testifying in front of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the veterans announced their plan to descend on the Capitol Building, which the Nixon administration decided to surround, preemptively, with a version of the same kind of barrier fence that encircles it now.

Historian: The real patriots invaded the nation’s capital fifty years ago - Alternet.org

[Bigblue204]

On 2021-04-24 at 1:40 PM, the watcher said:

The comparison to pre- war Germany gets scarier all the time. The Germans weren't  an evil people. They were going through hard times in the depression . People were desperate for answers and solutions . They were given a target, some people to blame it on. They were promised jobs and a return of their national pride.  At first some restrictions on the people causing problems for their society seemed reasonable . Bit by bit the horrors that followed became the normal. At some point previously reasonable people looked down the barrel of a gun at a 5 year old child.......and squeezed the trigger.  I have studied enough history to know it can happen again. The world worries me now.

nevermind in America. My uncle in Kenora needs to carry papers proving he's going to....work....just incase he gets pulled over due to the lockdown. That has RED FLAGS all over it.

[Mark F]

4 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

nevermind in America. My uncle in Kenora needs to carry papers proving he's going to....work....just incase he gets pulled over due to the lockdown. That has RED FLAGS all over it.

will your uncle, and his family be sent to a brutal prison labour camp if he doesnt carry his "papers"?

what complete  nonsense you posted.

[Bigblue204]

14 minutes ago, Mark F said:

will your uncle, and his family be sent to a brutal prison labour camp if he doesnt carry his "papers"?

what complete  nonsense you posted.

What did I say that's nonsense? He has to carry those. Did you think the Nazi's became who they were, immediately?

I'm not allowed to use the German comparison? When will it be ok? 

I'm not saying anything really needs to be done, or that those who rallied at the forks aren't idiots. However, I will not be shamed into not speaking about some commonalities these two situations have. The governments are (even if it's for the good) taking an increased role in all of our daily lives. I hope we remember so that when this is over, we can return to the all the freedoms we had and not settle for what this society has become. Because we know what humans are capable of when we don't force government to step aside.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Bigblue204

[Mark F]

29 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I'm not allowed to use the German comparison? When will it be ok? 

hard to believe this is a serious remark.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Mark F

[Bigblue204]

11 minutes ago, Mark F said:

if this is a serious comment, youmareppp

If you think never discussing what happened is healthy. That's fine. I'll speak my mind.

I'm not saying we are in the grip of the 3rd reich. I'm not saying anyone is being persecuted. I'm saying the comparisons to how the ball got rolling in 1930 are there, even if they're small and look different. I don't think it's bad to talk about, and I dont think it's healthy to assume the government will relinquish the power it takes.

[17to85]

38 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

and I dont think it's healthy to assume the government will relinquish the power it takes.

What power are we talking about? The power of trying to protect people from a virus? People have proven they can't act towards the common good without government forcing them to do it.

[Mark H.]

It's becoming less and less about protecting people from a virus.  

I can't have a visitor in my house, but I can meet them at Tim's for a coffee

Only 10 people can attend church, but 100s and 1000s can attend schools

Virus protection my ass (donkey reference)

[HardCoreBlue]

2 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

It's becoming less and less about protecting people from a virus.  

I can't have a visitor in my house, but I can meet them at Tim's for a coffee

Only 10 people can attend church, but 100s and 1000s can attend schools

Virus protection my ass (donkey reference)

Then what’s it about?

[Mark H.]

3 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Then what’s it about?

Appearances. 

[Brandon]

57 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Appearances. 

Not at all... it's about money.   Having your buds over at your house generates very little to the economy.  Keeping stores/restaurants open even at a limited capacity is much better for the economy.  

I do agree though that church should be 100% closed.    Schools are open because it's child care to help the working people stay at work.   

I'm not saying it's morally correct,  but to me it makes sense.  

[Sard]

8 hours ago, Brandon said:

Not at all... it's about money.   Having your buds over at your house generates very little to the economy.  Keeping stores/restaurants open even at a limited capacity is much better for the economy.  

I do agree though that church should be 100% closed.    Schools are open because it's child care to help the working people stay at work.   

I'm not saying it's morally correct,  but to me it makes sense.  

I believe that it's restrictions targeting where they are seeing transmissions.  The schools that are seeing transmissions are being shifted to remote learning, but they aren't forcing everyone to go that way if there are school populations that aren't being affected.  The majority of cases were being seen when people were visiting each others' homes, so that is what they are cracking down on.

[Wideleft]

15 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

What did I say that's nonsense? He has to carry those. Did you think the Nazi's became who they were, immediately?

I'm not allowed to use the German comparison? When will it be ok? 

I'm not saying anything really needs to be done, or that those who rallied at the forks aren't idiots. However, I will not be shamed into not speaking about some commonalities these two situations have. The governments are (even if it's for the good) taking an increased role in all of our daily lives. I hope we remember so that when this is over, we can return to the all the freedoms we had and not settle for what this society has become. Because we know what humans are capable of when we don't force government to step aside.

We are seeing right now what happens when people elect "politicians" who are anti-government and it ain't good.

[Bigblue204]

14 hours ago, 17to85 said:

What power are we talking about? The power of trying to protect people from a virus? People have proven they can't act towards the common good without government forcing them to do it.

If you're ok with the government restricting who you can or can't have at your private residence, that's fine. It makes me (even though I'm for it, and understand it's needed at this current time) uncomfortable and I won't not talk about it.

And yes, I've been saying for a long time these rules are for the idiots among us who don't understand how a virus operates or just basic manners even.

[MOBomberFan]

6 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

If you're ok with the government restricting who you can or can't have at your private residence, that's fine. It makes me (even though I'm for it, and understand it's needed at this current time) uncomfortable and I won't not talk about it.

And yes, I've been saying for a long time these rules are for the idiots among us who don't understand how a virus operates or just basic manners even.

Are you suggesting that the government might continue to dictate household visitors when there is no reason for it? What is their ulterior motive?

If we are vaccinated and the pandemic is effectively over and they are still restricting household visitors then trust me, I'll help you light the torches and gather the pitchforks. Til then it seems a bit alarmist worrying aloud about it.

[Bigblue204]

2 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

Are you suggesting that the government might continue to dictate household visitors when there is no reason for it? What is their ulterior motive?

If we are vaccinated and the pandemic is effectively over and they are still restricting household visitors then trust me, I'll help you light the torches and gather the pitchforks. Til then it seems a bit alarmist worrying aloud about it.

No, I actually don't think THIS government would do that, as you're right...we know it's not normal and wouldn't accept it. My worry is the normalizing of this with the lack of education around the reasons why. *worst case scenario time* why don't we do this for flu season? It kills people, even children...I've come close to this with my family...So even I'm like...I can see a reason to have a government mandate on visitors during a really bad flu season...but maybe in a decade someone suggests it would be a good way to keep people working etc...so now during flu season these measures are taken...then after that it's for some other reason and so on and so on...until over the course of decades it's completely normal for us to ask the government who we can visit. *worst case scenario over*

And yes this is absolutely alarmist, but I'd rather have the conversation or at least acknowledge it then completely ignore it and pretend the government isn't creeping into our homes. I am a worst case scenario person at heart after all. 

Again I do think that worst case scenario won't play out, I can even quote sources showing how similar moves in the 1920s didn't end up dragging society down that path...but again I won't pretend like it can't happen.