RethinkIng Paul Maurice....

[JCon]

4 hours ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

We need another goalie and 1/2 really good LHD.

Goalie is a 2nd rounder pick. The D guys you will have to trade O for.

Alzner is UFA but then Vanc likely to go after the local boy.

 

We need a whole really good LHD. 

[bearpants]

16 hours ago, Atomic said:

Decent goaltending would have got us in this year.  Next year, who knows?  We can't necessarily count on Scheifele putting up 80+ points, Laine putting up 35+ goals, Lowry scoring 15, Trouba having a career season, etc.  Morrissey had a fantastic rookie season but will he regress as a sophomore?  Wouldn't be the first time that happened.  My point is that teams don't develop on a linear upward slope.  We had an opportunity to be good this year, and blew it by totally bungling the goaltending situation.  Let's hope the opportunity comes again.

Why not?  You're assuming Schifele and Laine just had a "flash in the pan" season and they are not likely to trend upwards??

[SPuDS]

4 hours ago, bearpants said:

Why not?  You're assuming Schifele and Laine just had a "flash in the pan" season and they are not likely to trend upwards??

exactly.. why would we assume Schief would regress and Laine would peter out?  The league knows both of these guys and couldn't really do much about them.  If anything, I'd expect them to improve IF the core of the team improves as well.   If we get a goalie where we don't need to be pushing so hard to tie up or come from behind games, maybe they loosen up and score more? 

 

sure nothing is set in stone but I don't get this "can't rely.." mentality.  you CAN, thats why they get paid those large contracts.. because management believes they will continue to to play as well as before or better. 

 

 

[Atomic]

5 hours ago, bearpants said:

Why not?  You're assuming Schifele and Laine just had a "flash in the pan" season and they are not likely to trend upwards??

Not at all!  Not at all.  It's certainly possible that they both have great seasons next year, and I think we're all banking on it.  I definitely see Scheifele continuing his upward trend.  With Laine.... I'll just say it's hard to score in the NHL, and lots of guys have come in with a bang only to take a bit of a step back in their second year.  I can't see the future but what I do know is that the unexpected often happens and we can't bank on EVERYONE on the Jets continuing on an upward trend.  It just never works that way.

[Atomic]

42 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

exactly.. why would we assume Schief would regress and Laine would peter out?  The league knows both of these guys and couldn't really do much about them.  If anything, I'd expect them to improve IF the core of the team improves as well.   If we get a goalie where we don't need to be pushing so hard to tie up or come from behind games, maybe they loosen up and score more? 

sure nothing is set in stone but I don't get this "can't rely.." mentality.  you CAN, thats why they get paid those large contracts.. because management believes they will continue to to play as well as before or better. 

Long story short, SPuDS is still optimistic 

[Floyd]

4 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Long story short, SPuDS is still optimistic 

[bearpants]

1 hour ago, Atomic said:

Not at all!  Not at all.  It's certainly possible that they both have great seasons next year, and I think we're all banking on it.  I definitely see Scheifele continuing his upward trend.  With Laine.... I'll just say it's hard to score in the NHL, and lots of guys have come in with a bang only to take a bit of a step back in their second year.  I can't see the future but what I do know is that the unexpected often happens and we can't bank on EVERYONE on the Jets continuing on an upward trend.  It just never works that way.

I agree, it's impossible to "predict" what is going to happen and certainly not everyone will continue to progress... and maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I have a lot of confidence in those two, in particular, going forward... I think it's reasonable to expect Shefiele will be a 70-90 point per season player and Laine will be a 30-40 goal per season player for the foreseeable future...

[Atomic]

29 minutes ago, bearpants said:

I agree, it's impossible to "predict" what is going to happen and certainly not everyone will continue to progress... and maybe I'm being overly optimistic but I have a lot of confidence in those two, in particular, going forward... I think it's reasonable to expect Shefiele will be a 70-90 point per season player and Laine will be a 30-40 goal per season player for the foreseeable future...

Basically what I'm getting at is that the season actually went quite well for most of our players, aside from the major injury to Myers and Little missing a quarter of the season.  Uncommonly well, in fact.  You can't point to many players on this team that under-performed or missed a lot of games.  This season would have been a great time to make a run, but we just didn't have the goaltending, and that's a shame.  Who knows what next year brings?

[Brandon]

Based on Chevy's comments...  it looks like the team is looking for a new Hutch... back up goalie to play 20 - 30 games for them. 

I'd be shocked if they made the effort to sign a starter for next season. 

Also Chevy and Maurice have yet to make any sort of comments stating that the goal for next season is to be a play off team...  very low expectations and mostly about being young and how the team is young and how growing pains because we are young....  etc....

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

5 hours ago, Brandon said:

Based on Chevy's comments...  it looks like the team is looking for a new Hutch... back up goalie to play 20 - 30 games for them. 

I'd be shocked if they made the effort to sign a starter for next season.

Would not be surprised. Kinda eliminates just about every goalie mentioned on here lately.

MIght as well bring in Comrie as backup. We're used to that by now.

[Floyd]

7 hours ago, Brandon said:

Based on Chevy's comments...  it looks like the team is looking for a new Hutch... back up goalie to play 20 - 30 games for them. 

I'd be shocked if they made the effort to sign a starter for next season. 

Also Chevy and Maurice have yet to make any sort of comments stating that the goal for next season is to be a play off team...  very low expectations and mostly about being young and how the team is young and how growing pains because we are young....  etc....

 

[IC Khari]

 

[Atomic]

16 hours ago, Brandon said:

Based on Chevy's comments...  it looks like the team is looking for a new Hutch... back up goalie to play 20 - 30 games for them. 

I'd be shocked if they made the effort to sign a starter for next season. 

Also Chevy and Maurice have yet to make any sort of comments stating that the goal for next season is to be a play off team...  very low expectations and mostly about being young and how the team is young and how growing pains because we are young....  etc....

 

The return of Budaj?  Just poring over the list of UFA goalies and there aren't too many guys who fit that backup profile.  Darcy Kuemper, Peter Budaj, Curtis McElhinney... there are a few younger guys who had good years - Keith Kinkaid, Anders Nilsson, maybe even Jonathan Bernier?  But I'm not sure how they will be impacted by the expansion draft.

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Atomic said:

The return of Budaj?  Just poring over the list of UFA goalies and there aren't too many guys who fit that backup profile.  Darcy Kuemper, Peter Budaj, Curtis McElhinney... there are a few younger guys who had good years - Keith Kinkaid, Anders Nilsson, maybe even Jonathan Bernier?  But I'm not sure how they will be impacted by the expansion draft.

Im not ready to give up on Helle but if Chevy goes into next season with zero competition for the starter and a "hope" that Helle can be good, he probably should move on.  I like Chevy but that can change in a hurry.  Drafting well is nice.  Its a testament to your scouts and vision.  But a GM cant let his team flounder because he's afraid to make a move.

[Atomic]

21 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Im not ready to give up on Helle but if Chevy goes into next season with zero competition for the starter and a "hope" that Helle can be good, he probably should move on.  I like Chevy but that can change in a hurry.  Drafting well is nice.  Its a testament to your scouts and vision.  But a GM cant let his team flounder because he's afraid to make a move.

Very true.  I'd also say Chevy's draft record has been above average but not excellent.  If the plan is to build the team exclusively through "draft & develop", then we have to be damn near the best drafting team in the NHL.  I give him full marks for nailing his first round picks - Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers and Laine.  Jury is still out on Connor and Roslovic but they look good too.  However, there has to be some success in the later rounds as well.  Lowry and Copp are good, but nothing more than role-players.  

I can't help but look at Jake Guentzel... a third round pick for Pittsburgh who put up more than a point per game in the AHL and then continued a similar pace when he came to the NHL mid-season, and is now tearing it up in the playoffs.  Where is our Jake Guentzel?  If we are going to be full-out draft & develop, we need those kinds of success stories.

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Very true.  I'd also say Chevy's draft record has been above average but not excellent.  If the plan is to build the team exclusively through "draft & develop", then we have to be damn near the best drafting team in the NHL.  I give him full marks for nailing his first round picks - Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers and Laine.  Jury is still out on Connor and Roslovic but they look good too.  However, there has to be some success in the later rounds as well.  Lowry and Copp are good, but nothing more than role-players.  

I can't help but look at Jake Guentzel... a third round pick for Pittsburgh who put up more than a point per game in the AHL and then continued a similar pace when he came to the NHL mid-season, and is now tearing it up in the playoffs.  Where is our Jake Guentzel?  If we are going to be full-out draft & develop, we need those kinds of success stories.

One might argue that Pittsburgh has a very good AHL program.  Ours?  Well, stocking your AHL team with talented draft picks is one thing.  Giving it a coaching staff based on a guy you didnt want on your NHL staff is something else altogether.  Im being unduly harsh.  But I agree to a degree.  We need a couple of guys to come out of those later rounds and surprise us.

Although I'd say usually those diamonds in the rough take longer to develop so we're still seeing some of it maybe.  Also, doesn't Pitts have a few ubndrafted players playing strong roles?  Sure, playing with Crosby and Malkin sounds easy but they have to hold up their end of the deal.

Chevy gets the credit for going "off the board" with Scheif and hitting a home run.  Had he not been as good as he is, what's Chevy's reputation like?

 

[Atomic]

9 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

One might argue that Pittsburgh has a very good AHL program.  Ours?  Well, stocking your AHL team with talented draft picks is one thing.  Giving it a coaching staff based on a guy you didnt want on your NHL staff is something else altogether.  Im being unduly harsh.  But I agree to a degree.  We need a couple of guys to come out of those later rounds and surprise us.

The AHL program needs work for sure.  You can't just have a team full of losers and expect prospects to come out of there flying high with confidence.

However I'm not sure that was the rationale for hiring Pascal Vincent, although that's certainly how the fans perceived the move...

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Atomic said:

The AHL program needs work for sure.  You can't just have a team full of losers and expect prospects to come out of there flying high with confidence.

However I'm not sure that was the rationale for hiring Pascal Vincent, although that's certainly how the fans perceived the move...

I assume he was hired because the previous coach was coaching a system not in line with what the NHL team was coaching.  So there was a learning curve for players being called up.  Now they all play the same way.  Thats fine.  I mean, its the AHL.  The jets will be fine as far as talent goes I think.

I guess Im more sour.  My #2 team is the Pens.  And twice they looked like it might be time to blow it up and they instead made ballsy moves that werent even "big" moves and won the cup.  Maybe three times actually.  When they hired the previous coach and turned their season around and won the cup.  And then firing the GM and the moves Rutherford made mid season to win the cup again.  There's a GM not sitting around.  This season people sort of snickered at their moves at the deadline and maybe their aging veteran D will die off as the Playoffs progress but with Letang out, its worked out well.  Adding young guys that compliment Crosby, Malkin and Kessel.

And Chevy did nothing.  And its not like it snuck up on us.  Team D has been the achiles heel for the entirety of the Jets time here.  AND goaltending.  Okay, Helle was given the ball.  But they knew Trouba was holding out.  They knew Buff was struggling to play 30 minutes a game.  They knew Helle and Hutch were below average.  They knew Myers was hurt long term.  Not a single sniff of effort from our GM. 

I dont subscribe to the notion that ownership handcuffs the GM financially.  I really dont.  But what excuse can there be for not bringing in a veteran D man?  Or a veteran back up?  In December/January when there was still a chance?

[Floyd]

If you look at the Forbes business overview of the Jets, sure looks like the internal cap is about $62-65 million...

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Floyd said:

If you look at the Forbes business overview of the Jets, sure looks like the internal cap is about $62-65 million...

 

Maybe.  But I dont buy its a hard cap.  Owners make big money through playoffs.  Adding a couple of cheaper players to get to the playoffs is easy money.  Sure, there are no gurantees.  But if Chipman is screaming in his box he cant also be telling Chevy no when he wants to add a 2 million player.

[sweep the leg]

25 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Chevy gets the credit for going "off the board" with Scheif and hitting a home run.  Had he not been as good as he is, what's Chevy's reputation like?

What's the point of asking this question? Take away a guy's successes and he's going to be unsuccessful.

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

What's the point of asking this question? Take away a guy's successes and he's going to be unsuccessful.

The point was in the question. 

[Floyd]

3 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Maybe.  But I dont buy its a hard cap.  Owners make big money through playoffs.  Adding a couple of cheaper players to get to the playoffs is easy money.  Sure, there are no gurantees.  But if Chipman is screaming in his box he cant also be telling Chevy no when he wants to add a 2 million player.

Chevy seems to be gunshy of the cap as well...  maybe overthinking it a bit too much?  Or maybe it really is that hard to get players to sign in Winnipeg...

Basically, he's accidentally created the mid-2000s oilers...  now he needs to sign a Talbot and a Lucic.

[sweep the leg]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The point was in the question. 

Fair enough. The answer is his reputation would be worse if his picks had turned out worse.

[Atomic]

4 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

What's the point of asking this question? Take away a guy's successes and he's going to be unsuccessful.

I think it's not really a question.  It's more.... Chevy's entire positive reputation is based off having a few high first-round picks finding success in the league.  Other than that, he has done next to nothing.  In 6 years as GM he has brought in 3 roster players - Armia, Perreault, and Myers.  He has not won a playoff game.  He has made the playoffs only once.  He has never had a post-second round pick make the team, let alone have a real impact.  Honestly his record has been pretty pathetic by almost any measure aside from first-round picks.