RethinkIng Paul Maurice....

[Rich]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

is this the place you guys are talking about coaching? 'Cause Friedman's 30 Thoughts had a note today about how Ed Olczyk might be talking with the Jets about joining Maurice's staff....

He'd finally be able to bring the cup back to Winnipeg .... just like he promised 20+ years ago.

[Noeller]

Apparently EO wants to get back into coaching.....or, so says Friedge, anyhow...

[JCon]

 

7 minutes ago, Noeller said:

is this the place you guys are talking about coaching? 'Cause Friedman's 30 Thoughts had a note today about how Ed Olczyk might be talking with the Jets about joining Maurice's staff....

Who will help provide coverage for the horse racing?

[The Unknown Poster]

I immediately like the idea of Eddie O on the coaching staff.  And thats only because he was a Jet and a seemingly good guy. 

So now that my emotions are out of the way, what is the book on Eddie as a coach?  Can he help the Jets D?  Can he motivate and/or prepare them better?

And if we're hiring former Jets, when the heck is Dale going to officially join the organization?

[FrostyWinnipeg]

4 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I immediately like the idea of Eddie O on the coaching staff.  And thats only because he was a Jet and a seemingly good guy. 

So now that my emotions are out of the way, what is the book on Eddie as a coach?  Can he help the Jets D?  Can he motivate and/or prepare them better?

And if we're hiring former Jets, when the heck is Dale going to officially join the organization?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Olczyk#Coaching_record

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Olczyk#Coaching_record

Im not so much concerned with his record as his style and philosophy.  Those werent good Pens teams, despite having Mario.  And he's not going to be Jets HC.   Although I suppose he'd be the first one elevated....if this is even true.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Im not so much concerned with his record as his style and philosophy.  Those werent good Pens teams, despite having Mario.  And he's not going to be Jets HC.   Although I suppose he'd be the first one elevated....if this is even true.

Kompon, Huddy, Vincent as future Jets coach? Shudder.

Edited May 16, 2017 by FrostyWinnipeg

[DR. CFL]

unless fast Eddie is suited up in goal with a .930 save percentage and 1.90 goals against average , who cares and what difference is he going to make?

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

How do you figure? He was a waiver pickup and has essentially served as a stop gap and backup when Montoya wasn't re-signed. He had a good season back in 2014-15 but has been otherwise below average. He's been a known commodity for some time now.

Hellebuyck, OTOH, is part of the team's draft and development model, having played considerable time in the AHL and now in the NHL. He has shown he's capable of being a starter at the highest level but his workload was heavy in what was basically his sophomore season - hence the need for a proven veteran who can back him up/bail him out as needed. He's also three years younger and his ceiling remains to be seen.

He's shown he can play in the NHL. Yeah, I'll give him that. But he hasn't shown to be an elite goalie. Or that he can carry the load like other goaltenders in the league. For all we know he may ultimately show that he's a career backup.

[blue_gold_84]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He's shown he can play in the NHL. Yeah, I'll give him that. But he hasn't shown to be an elite goalie. Or that he can carry the load like other goaltenders in the league. For all we know he may ultimately show that he's a career backup.

He stepped up during the 2015-16 season when he was called up and played well for stretches this past season. He was obviously overworked after having his workload essentially doubled because the backup available couldn't accomplish anything.

Speculating on what he may become is pointless at this stage. He's still a young pup by goalie standards.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, blue_gold_84 said:

He stepped up during the 2015-16 season when he was called up and played well for stretches this past season. He was obviously overworked after having his workload essentially doubled because the backup available couldn't accomplish anything.

Speculating on what he may become is pointless at this stage. He's still a young pup by goalie standards.

That's on Cheveldayoff for the most part. He & Maurice obviously thought he could handle it. Then our GM did nothing as the season went on. Nothing. I'm not huge on Helle as I've seen a lot of goalies come & go with different NHL teams over the years. If he capable of stepping up then he will. if not, we'll find out. Big season coming up for him in 17-18.

 

[blue_gold_84]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That's on Cheveldayoff for the most part. He & Maurice obviously thought he could handle it. Then our GM did nothing as the season went on. Nothing. I'm not huge on Helle as I've seen a lot of goalies come & go with different NHL teams over the years. If he capable of stepping up then he will. if not, we'll find out. Big season coming up for him in 17-18.

 

Cheveldayoff's hands must be numb these days. He better make some moves this off-season.

[Jimmy Pop]

17 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He's shown he can play in the NHL. Yeah, I'll give him that. But he hasn't shown to be an elite goalie. Or that he can carry the load like other goaltenders in the league. For all we know he may ultimately show that he's a career backup.

FYP to include only the relevant part. 

I'm not sure why people expected a 23 yr old tender to be a legit #1 with no hiccups along the way. Seems like a problem with expectations, not with the goalie himself per se.  IMO Jets biggest blunder last season was not having a capable #2, not the decision to ride Helle itself. 

...now if he's not  getting that league avg save% this year and next, then we can talk about being a career backup.  Until then, who knows.  Scott Darling is 4 years older & just got a lot of $$$ and 4 years of term.  I'm not certain he's accomplished anything more of substance, other than being on a far better team. 

14 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

That's on Cheveldayoff for the most part. He & Maurice obviously thought he could handle it. Then our GM did nothing as the season went on. Nothing. I'm not huge on Helle as I've seen a lot of goalies come & go with different NHL teams over the years. If he capable of stepping up then he will. if not, we'll find out. Big season coming up for him in 17-18.

 

 Agreed.

They got themselves hamstrung worrying about the expansion draft and forgot the important things along the way....1) winning NOW kinda does matter to people and 2) Vegas would NEVER have picked Hutch to begin with. 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

I don't know why people wouldn't expect the goalie the Jets braintrust named as #1 to be able to win consistently. That's what he's getting paid for. To win. Again, this is on the Jets for totally overblowing what they thought they had with Hellebuyck. There's no accountability from ownership when it comes to brain farts by our GM. he seems to have a free pass to virtually be invisible. It's only another year wasted, what's the problem, it seems? No worries as the fans won't complain too much. What's to say Cheveldayoff still sits on his ass again this summer? Just like he does the other 9-10 months of the year. What will Chipman do? I think probably nothing.

Edited May 18, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[JCon]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I don't know why people wouldn't expect the goalie the Jets braintrust named as #1 to be able to win consistently. That's what he's getting paid for. To win. Again, this is on the Jets for totally overblowing what they thought they had with Hellebuyck. There's no accountability from ownership when it comes to brain farts by our GM. he seems to have a free pass to virtually be invisible. It's only another year wasted, what's the problem, it seems? No worries as the fans won't complain too much. What's to say Cheveldayoff still sits on his ass again this summer? Just like he does the other 9-10 months of the year. What will Chipman do? I think probably nothing.

Non of drivel makes sense. 

What do you expect Chipman to do? Call out his GM in the media? Fire him over the mistake? 

GMs make mistakes all the time. Only one GM will win the Stanley Cup this year, so every other GM should get fired? 

I mean, what did Bowman do this year? Blackhawks got swept in the first round. Needs to be fired, really. 

And, how would you know how Chipman holds Chevy accountable? Imagine a world where the owner doesn't tell Joe Public how he handles internal matters.

Also, Helle is being paid to play hockey for the Jets. One team wins and one team loses each night. It's not his fault the team assessed him as being further developed than he was. 

[SpeedFlex27]

Pro players get paid to win & not play. If they don't they won't play long. The only way an owner holds his GM accountable if he doesn't win is to fire him. Think Chipman is even remotely close to doing that? I don't. Even if the Jets have another losing season. One playoff season in 7? How can you even compare Stan Bowman to Cheveldayoff?

[blue_gold_84]

Winning is a team accomplishment; a goaltender alone doesn't determine wins and losses. Did you watch the Jets play this past season? Or the one before? One of the worst defensive zone teams in the game... Embarrassingly inept at times. Besides one apparent aberration of a season in 2014-15 (and then they were exposed in the playoffs), their 200 ft. game has been exceptionally poor. Not a single netminder on this team since relocation has received adequate defensive support on a consistent basis. Until that changes, it'll be difficult for any goalie to be successful.

Look at the top teams in the league: strong special teams, especially the PK; a complete 200 ft. game, with an emphasis on solid defensive zone coverage; depth across the roster, namely on the blueline. The Jets simply aren't there yet in regard to any of those aspects, and that is a symptom of inheriting a dumpster fire franchise. I understand the impatience and wanting to win now, but that's just not how it works with this particular team at this time. TNSE is building through drafting and developing in the hopes to have sustained success. It's frustrating but fans only see a part of what's actually taking place.

I'm not sure what anything thinks is accomplished by firing everyone, either.

[JCon]

14 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Pro players get paid to win & not play. If they don't they won't play long. The only way an owner holds his GM accountable if he doesn't win is to fire him. Think Chipman is even remotely close to doing that? I don't. Even if the Jets have another losing season. One playoff season in 7? How can you even compare Stan Bowman to Cheveldayoff?

No, pro players do not get paid to win. If they did, everyone would be paid in the playoffs and have huge incentive based contracts. They're paid to be at the rink. The teams are banking on them have the drive and talent to get better and make the team better.

What was Chevy's budget last year? Maybe he wanted to get a better back-up goalie but couldn't afford him.

How would Chevy know how much Trouba was going to cost. I bet he figured he would be paying him twice as much starting a long term deal.

The expectation of the club, as was stated before the season even started, was for the group to develop. The unspoken idea was that the Jets were not going to make the playoffs. Mission accomplished, unfortunately.

Chevy couldn't trade in the offseason for a quality (ie expensive) back-up or sign one and risk losing them this spring. He managed his budget, expecting to pay Trouba more and hoping Helle would play 60 games, with Hutch the rest and everything would work out.

You don't think Chipman went into this season knowing the risk in net? You don't think Chipman went in knowing that this was a development year? Chevy's done exactly what they've asked, with the budget they've provided. Why would they fire him? He may have even exceeded their expectations.

[SpeedFlex27]

7 hours ago, JCon said:

No, pro players do not get paid to win. If they did, everyone would be paid in the playoffs and have huge incentive based contracts. They're paid to be at the rink. The teams are banking on them have the drive and talent to get better and make the team better.

What was Chevy's budget last year? Maybe he wanted to get a better back-up goalie but couldn't afford him.

How would Chevy know how much Trouba was going to cost. I bet he figured he would be paying him twice as much starting a long term deal.

The expectation of the club, as was stated before the season even started, was for the group to develop. The unspoken idea was that the Jets were not going to make the playoffs. Mission accomplished, unfortunately.

Chevy couldn't trade in the offseason for a quality (ie expensive) back-up or sign one and risk losing them this spring. He managed his budget, expecting to pay Trouba more and hoping Helle would play 60 games, with Hutch the rest and everything would work out.

You don't think Chipman went into this season knowing the risk in net? You don't think Chipman went in knowing that this was a development year? Chevy's done exactly what they've asked, with the budget they've provided. Why would they fire him? He may have even exceeded their expectations.

I have no idea what Chipman & Chevy were thinking about our goaltending situation with Hellebuyck as Chipman would defer to Cheveldayoff who is The Invisible Man as far as being GM of the Jets. If you think professional athletes get paid to play & not win then you're pretty naïve. Pro athletes have a short window of time to perform or they're gone. The careers of their coaches & GM's are on the line so he has to produce. Helle has this upcoming season to show he belongs. If he struggles again, he'll be sent down to the Moose, or conceivably traded away & someone else will take his place.

Edited May 19, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[JCon]

9 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I have no idea what Chipman & Chevy were thinking about our goaltending situation with Hellebuyck as Chipman would defer to Cheveldayoff who is The Invisible Man as far as being GM of the Jets. If you think professional athletes get paid to play & not win then you're pretty naïve.

If players got paid to win, all the contracts would would reflect that. They don't. Players get paid whether they win or lose. 

 

If Chevy didn't have the budget to pay a goaltender, then who's fault is it? 

[SpeedFlex27]

25 minutes ago, JCon said:

If players got paid to win, all the contracts would would reflect that. They don't. Players get paid whether they win or lose. 

 

If Chevy didn't have the budget to pay a goaltender, then who's fault is it? 

As GM, Chevey sets the budget in the areas he wants to spend & I imagine Chipman signs off on it. So, that would be Chevy. Players get paid to win. They don't win then they don't last. Contracts do reflect that.

Edited May 19, 2017 by SpeedFlex27

[JCon]

18 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

As GM, Chevey sets the budget in the areas he wants to spend & I imagine Chipman signs off on it. So, that would be Chevy. Players get paid to win. They don't win then they don't last. Contracts do reflect that.

Chevy gets a number from Chipman each year. Chevy doesn't pick the number, he just works within it. Considering he thought he would be paying Trouba a lot more, so probably budgeted that way.

 

Ron Hainsey played over 900 NHL games before playing in a single playoff game. He got paid and has never won. 

[SpeedFlex27]

32 minutes ago, JCon said:

Chevy gets a number from Chipman each year. Chevy doesn't pick the number, he just works within it. Considering he thought he would be paying Trouba a lot more, so probably budgeted that way.

 

Ron Hainsey played over 900 NHL games before playing in a single playoff game. He got paid and has never won. 

Sure, some guys play a long time but they're journeymen. Bouncing from one team to another. They make a very good living as they have the skill set to help a team as a fourth line centre, winger or defenseman. Look at Dennis Wideman in Calgary. He's made a career of being a borderline NHL defenseman. So, some guys do make it a career but most don't. Anyway, you & I disagree & that's fine. You look at things differently than I do. I have no problem with that. Probably time to move on before our conversation becomes a merry go round.

[blue_gold_84]

3 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I have no idea what Chipman & Chevy were thinking about our goaltending situation with Hellebuyck as Chipman would defer to Cheveldayoff who is The Invisible Man as far as being GM of the Jets. If you think professional athletes get paid to play & not win then you're pretty naïve. Pro athletes have a short window of time to perform or they're gone. The careers of their coaches & GM's are on the line so he has to produce. Helle has this upcoming season to show he belongs. If he struggles again, he'll be sent down to the Moose, or conceivably traded away & someone else will take his place.

Glad you're not in any way employed by the Jets. You'd have shipped off Scheifele three years ago had you applied the same kind of poor logic. Hellebuyck, who is basically a sophomore at the NHL level, hasn't even hit the age where most goalies finally start to show, BTW. 

It's also pretty insulting to call the GM "The Invisible Man," not to mention very inaccurate. Consider what he was given back in 2011 and what he's managed to do since then. Just because he doesn't make trades at every trade deadline doesn't mean he's done absolutely nothing.

Fans who expected a turnaround with this franchise and a suddenly perennial playoff team - in the NHL's smallest market - are not being realistic at all.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Glad you're not in any way employed by the Jets. You'd have shipped off Scheifele three years ago had you applied the same kind of poor logic. Hellebuyck, who is basically a sophomore at the NHL level, hasn't even hit the age where most goalies finally start to show, BTW. 

It's also pretty insulting to call the GM "The Invisible Man," not to mention very inaccurate. Consider what he was given back in 2011 and what he's managed to do since then. Just because he doesn't make trades at every trade deadline doesn't mean he's done absolutely nothing.

Fans who expected a turnaround with this franchise and a suddenly perennial playoff team - in the NHL's smallest market - are not being realistic at all.

Neither are fans who think it's fine to wait a decade for a consistently winning team. Scheifle wasn't made the #1 centre on the Jets in his rookie year, either.

Edited May 19, 2017 by SpeedFlex27