The Expansion Draft

[Goalie]

1 minute ago, bb1 said:

Perreault Armia and Copp were already protected....?

If enstrom didnt agree to waive they wouldnt have been. 

[bb1]

12 minutes ago, Goalie said:

If enstrom didnt agree to waive they wouldnt have been. 

Yeah I know it was done so we could of lost ethier Dano or Enstrom. If you guys value these 2 players then yes it's a good deal. I think they are way overrated based on their play of the last 2 years. Obviously Chevy agrees with you guys that they are worth the price of a wasted year last year for a top 15 draft pick. See who we get and who we miss out on 13...shows you how much Vegas values these 2 guys though...

Edited June 22, 2017 by bb1

[The Unknown Poster]

12 minutes ago, bb1 said:

Perreault Armia and Copp were already protected....?

You're really having trouble understanding this.  They were protected BECAUSE Toby waived his NMC.  The Jets clearly wanted to retain Toby and Toby wanted to stay.  If he doesn't waive his NMC or the Jets are concerned about losing him, then they have to go 4-4 and then those guys AREN'T protected.

You can't look at half the deal and say it was bad.  You have to judge the entire thing. 

Before the draft people were talking about losing Dano PLUS possibility a pick to protect Enstrom.  Or sening Petan plus a pick and still losing Dano.  Chevy made out like a bandit.

The Jets arent in a "win now" mode but they should be in a "compete now" mode with their talent.  It was more important to retain their roster (either to use themselves on the ice or to retain assets for other deals).  A 13th pick doesnt help them at all until at least 2-3 years from now and there is no guarantee on that.  They STILL have a 24th pick which likely has the same 2-3 year trajectory as the 13th pick.

And they have plenty of time to recoup youth if they somehow feel they really lost out on someone this year.

Recap:  Jets lost ZERO players in the expansion draft and retained a first round selection.  It doesnt get much better.

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, bb1 said:

Yeah I know it was done so we could of lost ethier Dano or Enstrom. If you guys value these 2 players then yes it's a good deal. I think they are way overrated based on their play of the last 2 years. Obviously Chevy agrees with you guys that they are worth the price of a wasted year last year for a top 15 draft pick. See who we get and who we miss out on 13...shows you how much Vegas values these 2 guys though...

You can think what you want but still be wrong.  Dano and Entrom have more value to the Jets right now than 11 spots in the draft.

[Jimmy Pop]

It's not as if anyone's suggesting Enstrom is Bobby Orr here - - especially not now.

...having said that it was a mere 18 months ago Mike Babcock thought Toby was an elite defender.  

Quote

The well respected Mike Babcock praised Enstrom as an underrated and elite defender (note: paywall).

https://jetsnation.ca/2015/11/05/tobias-enstrom-gets-no-respect-around-here/

[Floyd]

No agenda here...  I just think our 13th pick had more trade value than Dano, Armia or Petan

Losing a $5.6 million contract frees up a lot of cap space to find a goalie and a young LHD... could afford Brendan Smith plus for Enstrom's contract

Moving out of the top 15 really does reduce the value of this pick - I guess we'll see who we lost out on and then discuss

I just don't see the value in giving away a top prospect to protect forwards that we already have no room for

 

[mbrg]

29 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You're really having trouble understanding this.

We made 2 deals, one with a player and another with a team, the net result of which is we dropped 11 spots in the draft and kept our entire roster intact.

Don't worry.  Most of us understand.

[bigg jay]

15 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You can think what you want but still be wrong.  Dano and Entrom have more value to the Jets right now than 11 spots in the draft.

Especially when it's a very shallow draft.  In a deep draft year you might regret moving down but this year ain't it.  It's going to be a crap shoot trying to guess who will be available where beyond the 1st 2 picks.  There's a very real chance that a guy the Jets have pegged around 13 is still available at 24.

Look at these final rankings and tell me who goes where (look at Owen Tippett for example - ranked as low as 4th and as high as 23rd & averaged out at 10th). 

http://thehockeywriters.com/2017-nhl-draft-final-consensus-rankings/

[Jimmy Pop]

8 minutes ago, Floyd said:

No agenda here...  I just think our 13th pick had more trade value than Dano, Armia or Petan

Losing a $5.6 million contract frees up a lot of cap space to find a goalie and a young LHD... could afford Brendan Smith plus for Enstrom's contract

Moving out of the top 15 really does reduce the value of this pick - I guess we'll see who we lost out on and then discuss

I just don't see the value in giving away a top prospect to protect forwards that we already have no room for

 

We have just under $20M to spend on Helle, Copp, maybe Tanev, maybe Chairot, maybe Trouba extension.  

Should be plenty of $$$ left. 

[The Unknown Poster]

13 minutes ago, Floyd said:

No agenda here...  I just think our 13th pick had more trade value than Dano, Armia or Petan

Losing a $5.6 million contract frees up a lot of cap space to find a goalie and a young LHD... could afford Brendan Smith plus for Enstrom's contract

Moving out of the top 15 really does reduce the value of this pick - I guess we'll see who we lost out on and then discuss

I just don't see the value in giving away a top prospect to protect forwards that we already have no room for

 

Let's not pretend the money matters.  it doesn't.  Right now, Toby is one of our top 2 LHD.  He might remain that this season too, we dont know.  So we let him go (and we didnt have a choice really as Toby has a NMC, so he decided) and then have to replace him anyway.  Cheaper?  Sure.  But its not like Toby leaves and we suddenly have $5.6 million windfall.  We'd spend a lot of that replacing Toby PLUS probably another D and everything else.

Jets have no cap issues whatsoever.  Pavs contract out is the money for a new goalie +.  Toby has one year left.  Jets have no issues with honouring that contract and Toby fills a NEED right now, despite many people thinking otherwise.

Also, there was praise for Toby at the start of last season for his play.  He got hurt, his gf got cancer, his play dropped off (the Jets D corp was a mish mash of injuries and whatnot).  Ill cut him some slack.  Will he play up to $5.6 mm this season?  Probably not.  But for his selfless act of waiving his NMC, I have ZERO problem with paying that last year and keeping him here. 

The money literally doesnt matter whatsoever.

[kelownabomberfan]

22 minutes ago, Jimmy Pop said:

It's not as if anyone's suggesting Enstrom is Bobby Orr here - - especially not now.

...having said that it was a mere 18 months ago Mike Babcock thought Toby was an elite defender.  

https://jetsnation.ca/2015/11/05/tobias-enstrom-gets-no-respect-around-here/

Great, trade him to Toronto for JVR or Nylander.

[The Unknown Poster]

13 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Especially when it's a very shallow draft.  In a deep draft year you might regret moving down but this year ain't it.  It's going to be a crap shoot trying to guess who will be available where beyond the 1st 2 picks.  There's a very real chance that a guy the Jets have pegged around 13 is still available at 24.

Look at these final rankings and tell me who goes where (look at Owen Tippett for example - ranked as low as 4th and as high as 23rd & averaged out at 10th). 

http://thehockeywriters.com/2017-nhl-draft-final-consensus-rankings/

And we've talked about this before, that at some point you go from wanting to draft high to wanting to compete now.  The Jets won the draft last year.  That was gravy.  Sucked they ended up 13 this year, a middle pick.  They still have a low middle pick.  The value is what it is.  I doubt 10-20 years from now we will look back at the 2017 draft and decide dropping 11 spots was the difference maker...

Its funny because I mentioned Nicolas Hague who Bobby Mac had at 25.  Was my "off the grid" pick.  Now he's a lot more reasonable.  But there are others.  jets will get a decent player who has an opportunity to help us in 3 years.

[bearpants]

 

2 hours ago, Atomic said:

Surprised at how many people actually think going from 13 to 24 is a big deal.  If they gave up a first round pick outright... yeah that would be crazy.  But dropping 11 spots?  That's nothing.

this x1000... the NHL draft is basically a crapshoot after the first few picks... if look up the guys taken between 13-24 in the draft the last 5-10 years and you'll basically see no correlation between the success rate at 13 vs the success rate at 24.... 

 

35 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Great, trade him to Toronto for JVR or Nylander.

haha, yeah I'm sure that would go over well in Toronto... but I'd gladly take it 

[Rich]

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 minute ago, Rich said:

 

Eberle for Hamonic in 3...2...1

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Eberle for Hamonic in 3...2...1

Ryan Strome.

[Goalie]

Eberle was basically a cap dump. 

[bb1]

2 hours ago, Jimmy Pop said:

You're definition of marginal at best is just vastly different than those employed by NHL teams, that's all. 

We will see... Vegas didn't seem to interested ethier....if this was such a good deal for us.

[bb1]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You can think what you want but still be wrong.  Dano and Entrom have more value to the Jets right now than 11 spots in the draft.

We will see....Vegas seems to think the other way as well.

[Goalie]

15 minutes ago, bb1 said:

We will see....Vegas seems to think the other way as well.

Vegas took a bunch of crap. You see that roster? Its ugly. They are tanking. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

11 minutes ago, bb1 said:

We will see... Vegas didn't seem to interested ethier....if this was such a good deal for us.

Your definition of "marginal player" seems largely justified by "Vegas didn't pick them so that proves their lack of value". By that logic the following players are "marginal" too since Vegas didn't pick any of them either (to name but a few):

Matt Dumba, Marco Scandella, Eric Staal, Antii Raanta, Sami Vatanen, Brock Nelson, Ryan Strome, Kevin Shattenkirk, Patrick Sharp

[iHeart]

and the trades go on

http://www.tsn.ca/canadiens-acquire-d-schlemko-from-vgk-1.786293

[Jimmy Pop]

48 minutes ago, bb1 said:

We will see... Vegas didn't seem to interested ethier....if this was such a good deal for us.

According to whom?  Dreger was certain VGK would take Enstrom. Then we made a deal. 

 

[Jimmy Pop]

18 minutes ago, iHeart said:

and the trades go on

http://www.tsn.ca/canadiens-acquire-d-schlemko-from-vgk-1.786293

Cheap, 30 yrs old, LHD, good enough for 62 games on a playoff team.   All for a  5th.  Wish it was us....

[Goalie]

Just now, Jimmy Pop said:

According to whom?  Dreger was certain VGK would take Enstrom. Then we made a deal. 

 

Media guys just guess with the Jets. They have no clue.