Reffing & Reviews

[BigBlue]

JCon said:  "

I don't have a problem with them imposing the rules. My point is that the refing is very inconsistent from play to play, week to week. The quality of refing is very low in the CFL. The poor refing is not incidentally because it can have, and has had, a direct impacted the result of the games."

I think the league could spend a lot more money on officiating such as :

1] Making the position a full time job

2] Continuous training of said officials and review using the latest technology

3] Imitate how the NFL trains and develops its officials ... hire the same way ... many college refs would love to become full time professionals ... also former Canadian football players would love to extend their time in the game...

Unless and until there is  a significant improvement in the quality and accuracy of the officiating calls, to protect themselves teams need more - - not less - - reviews. THIS IS CRUCIAL to the integrity of the game and the growth of our fan interest/base.

I know good reviews take more time but bad calls are too big a turn off to the marginal fans we need to grow our game. 

Here is what I propose:

1] a slight change in the rules to adjust for slight infractions away from the play  ... slight contact on a receiver, blocking on kick returns, holding and the like ... this means not over turning plays because the officials are using some common sense discretion  and "fairness" ie there are constant small infractions going on all over the field. Teams should not be able to take advantage of this.

2] adjusting for the speed of live play instead of the more accurate slow motion; for example  the Loffler hit on Arcenaux during the BC playoff game ... that call was a game changer ... in other words not over turning normal human judgment calls as a matter of practice ... over turn the egrecious errors in judgment only ... take away the picky technicality in favor of supporting normal judgment and on field pragmatic decisions giving back discretion to the official and NOT deferring decisions to the replay - - make the official make an on the spot decision instead of failing to decide in order to defer to the camera... this puts the burden on the official reviewer who should be the very best, not the very least, officials we have ( and who would be paid the best) meaning we have good discretion supporting the officials but knowing when to draw the line on a bad call.

The head referee may announce "the infraction was away from the play and will not be enforced"... or "the call was within the discretion of the official ruling at game speed and will not be over turned" ... etc.

3] Give teams unlimited reviews as long as they are right on the calls they protest. Teams get to be wrong on their request for reviews only twice ... and when they are wrong they will be charged a ten yard delay of game penalty ... this will deter teams from throwing the yellow flag unless they are sure of their protest ... throwing that flag will occur less just because it could be a game changer or because it is a blatant un-costly attempt to get lucky at a critical time.

I know more reviews slow the game but as long as they correct true officiating errors there is a certain satisfaction in justice being served. Fan frustration comes from the delays resulting from frivolous/marginal protests.

Who believes the extra reviews to get it right is  worth it to the well being of the league and the fans?

Edited November 25, 2016 by BigBlue

[Tracker]

Except for the "unlimited reviews" part. I agree with you.

[BigBlue]

34 minutes ago, tracker said:

Except for the "unlimited reviews" part. I agree with you.

Why would you ever want to not correct bad calls .... and as long as you are not making frivoulous protests you will be able to do so

[wbbfan]

4 hours ago, BigBlue said:

Why would you ever want to not correct bad calls .... and as long as you are not making frivoulous protests you will be able to do so

1, you cant control teams making hail marry and frivolous attempts, as we have well seen this year. 2. as we have seen since review began, the few challenges we have drastically slows down the pace of the game. 3. It encourages the border line calls too much. Minor, minor PI on a WR a mile away from the play over turns a pick 6 etc.

As long as you have a time out,  you should be allowed to challenge a play. Attempting to re challenge a play that was allready re viewed should be delay of game. Maybe if you lose 2 challenges in a row you get a delay of game too. So you get 1 free review per half. If you win, you get another. If you lose, you can challenge but it will cost a time out. 

Ive long felt that we NEED pro full time refs. Its a stupid hard job with a massive impact on the games. Having it be a 2nd part time job is awful. 

Return PI to football rules. not soft for flag football.

The problem with softening the calls away from the play is it opens up the game to cheap shots when the ball doesnt go in that direction. Really the solution to problems like our kick return TDs called back is to play more disciplined football. That, and getting rid of the ticky tack bull crap calls. 

 

[Tracker]

17 hours ago, BigBlue said:

Why would you ever want to not correct bad calls .... and as long as you are not making frivoulous protests you will be able to do so

Because we would be looking at 5 hour games,

[peggars]

CFL needs to pony down and hire 3 full on-field crews full time, get all teams to chip in 50% of the salary cost.  The part time bullcrap is what hurts the most.

[Dragon37]

1. Not all refs are full time in the NFL and being full time doesn't guarantee anything. I have often heard the reffing in the NFL isn't any better. How good or bad refs are will not be improved by paying them more. It is also a completely unnecessary cost to the league. Do you really want to pay timekeepers and the guys who work the sticks paid all year? 

2. Scrap reviews. Reffing is a human venture and as such is fraught with mistakes. You simply cannot see everything and, in many cases, the refs get the call right. Yeah it sucks when they miss calls but that's life.

3. Only change rules if they require it and they should be only further defined.

4. Stop changing rules to continually benefit the offenses. For example, I also like seeing offenses challenged by a strong defensive line which has been all but eliminated by constant holding. The officials have already been forced to enforce PI and, frankly, it has improved the play of defenders. Now enforce holding so that those hard working DL can work their magic and we can have better OL.

 

[Mark F]

6 hours ago, Dragon37 said:

Not all refs are full time in the NFL

It's amazing, considering the amount of money available, that they skimp on this. makes me wonder how stupid they are.

NBA, NHL, baseball, all have full time refs.

and the NFL has lots of ref problems and complaints too.

At least try to make it better.

NFL ratings are going down.... probably a number of reasons, one of them probably horrible reffing.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Mark F
posted b.c. (before coffee)

[Rich]

NFL refs make close to 200k a year. I don't think their pay is the issue. 

The issue is a fair number of them are judges, lawyers, own their own businesses, etc.  And if the NFL forces them to become full time, they will lose a number of their experienced refs as they are forced to choose their career. 

NFL needs to either bite the bullet and lose them or start the transition where new refs are full time going forward. 

[Fatty Liver]

5 hours ago, Dragon37 said:

1. Not all refs are full time in the NFL and being full time doesn't guarantee anything. I have often heard the reffing in the NFL isn't any better. How good or bad refs are will not be improved by paying them more. It is also a completely unnecessary cost to the league. Do you really want to pay timekeepers and the guys who work the sticks paid all year? 

2. Scrap reviews. Reffing is a human venture and as such is fraught with mistakes. You simply cannot see everything and, in many cases, the refs get the call right. Yeah it sucks when they miss calls but that's life.

3. Only change rules if they require it and they should be only further defined.

4. Stop changing rules to continually benefit the offenses. For example, I also like seeing offenses challenged by a strong defensive line which has been all but eliminated by constant holding. The officials have already been forced to enforce PI and, frankly, it has improved the play of defenders. Now enforce holding so that those hard working DL can work their magic and we can have better OL.

 

It's no coincidence that with the increased holding allowed by the O-line, QB injuries are down significantly this year from the last two.  I believe the league tolerates this compromise in order to keep their star players healthy and in the game.

[BigBlue]

On 11/26/2016 at 9:43 AM, tracker said:

Because we would be looking at 5 hour games,

Thats not even close to true .... specious thinking ... maybe five or ten minutes in certain games ... about the same in most ... but we won't know unless and until we test it out .... perhaps in preseason games

Edited November 27, 2016 by BigBlue

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, BigBlue said:

Thats not even close to true .... specious thinking ... maybe five or ten minutes in certain games ... about the same in most ... but we won't know unless and until we test it out .... perhaps in preseason games

I may have exaggerated for effect but since they went to this appeal process, the games have been noticeably longer 20-30 minutes.With an unlimited amount of appeals.....

[BigBlue]

7 hours ago, tracker said:

I may have exaggerated for effect but since they went to this appeal process, the games have been noticeably longer 20-30 minutes.With an unlimited amount of appeals.....

I think you would have to prove your 20-30 minutes ... but even if that were true I don't mind the time because I love football, every second of it ... besides there is a certain satisfaction in seeing an official judged wrong ... and they will be judged right a maximum of 4 times per game under the scenario I am suggesting ... more importantly, the more overturned calls there is (to the point of embarassment) the more likely it is the CFL will finally decide to improve its officiating

[Dee Urban Hermit]

20 hours ago, Dragon37 said:

2. Scrap reviews. Reffing is a human venture and as such is fraught with mistakes. You simply cannot see everything and, in many cases, the refs get the call right. Yeah it sucks when they miss calls but that's life.

I have been considering something like this. I'm not sure if these reviews are really making the game any better, the fans seem to be getting tired of it. No reviews, the game is called live. We all make mistakes and so do the refs, just let them play!

[bearpants]

For the people who think full-time officials is a good idea, here's a good read for you...

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/11/09/nfl-officials-refs-full-time-bills-seahawks-mailbag

I personally think the best option would be a team of off-field officials reviewing every game, in real time... when the wrong call is made the "off-field" officials would need to quickly signal to the on-field officials to change the call... I'm not sure how well that would work logistically but it seems like there would be enough time to quickly review every play in real time... it would basically be like a constant booth review, as long as they don't take 5 minutes to decide every time...

If not that, then let's just go back to the old-school (by modern standards) method... challenges for catches, in-bounds, etc.... and accept that there will be missed calls

[Mr Dee]

If anybody watched the Vanier Cup on Saturday, you would have been entertained by the play, all the scoring and the reffing. If there were bad calls it didn't seem to affect the game. There were no challenges or play reviews. And you know what?...everybody lived. 

It can be done without these sideline distractions..

 

[Bigblue204]

I honestly think you should get one review, and one review only. No matter the turn out. You get one review. And can use it to review any play you want.

[JCon]

23 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I honestly think you should get one review, and one review only. No matter the turn out. You get one review. And can use it to review any play you want.

Which would be nice, if you could see the entire game first, then decide what you want to challenge.

But given the obvious calls that the leagues best refs missed yesterday, I think the current system is best.

[Esks1975]

How many obvious calls do you think they missed? I think there was one. On the last play of the game. I also think that the on field officials were right about the PI that got called on review. Calgary should have lost that challenge. 

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Which would be nice, if you could see the entire game first, then decide what you want to challenge.

But given the obvious calls that the leagues best refs missed yesterday, I think the current system is best.

You can say that about the way it's done now too.

And messing up calls is a part of football. I was all for trying to get the calls done right every time. But it's becoming something that distracts from the game itself. There's always going to be missed calls. The only way to stop that would be to allow challenging of every play with unlimited challenges. And I won't watch that.

A QB missing a throw happens, RB's drop the ball, WR's run wrong routes, Refs miss calls. These mistakes will always be a part of the game. It's time to stop thinking we can make it perfect and just except the human aspect of it.

I'm for the current way as well, but I'd prefer 1 and done challenges, open to all plays.

Challenging plays won't improve the reffing (as we've all seen) paying them properly and holding them accountable will.

[basslicker]

Too many reviews nowadays.  It bogs down the game. 

[wbbfan]

On 11/27/2016 at 8:33 AM, Mark F said:

It's amazing, considering the amount of money available, that they skimp on this. makes me wonder how stupid they are.

NBA, NHL, baseball, all have full time refs.

and the NFL has lots of ref problems and complaints too.

At least try to make it better.

NFL ratings are going down.... probably a number of reasons, one of them probably horrible reffing.

Nba nhl and baseball play 80-162 games vs 18. With games often every other day for teams in baseball and hockey. With 30+ teams you need a TON of refs working full time. Vs having a couple days a week.

6 hours ago, basslicker said:

Too many reviews nowadays.  It bogs down the game. 

Its too rewarding to take a hail mary review on PI. And the refs do too poor of a job getting the reviews done in the allotted time. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

The chuck and challenge has become a feature of every teams playbook.  It's way out of hand.  It's also just ridiculous to watch replays in super slo-mo.

[JCon]

9 hours ago, Esks1975 said:

How many obvious calls do you think they missed? I think there was one. On the last play of the game. I also think that the on field officials were right about the PI that got called on review. Calgary should have lost that challenge. 

Which challenge? The one where Jorden was clearly knocked down in the end zone, near the ball, right in front of the ref that required the replay booth to make a call? That was the most egregious of the blown calls. It was right in front of them. Horrendous. 

Then there was Van's "fumble" that they called. Despite the fact that there was no one near him when he landed and clearly landed on his arm, which caused the fumble, the refs, who were probably not watching at all, called it a fumble. I mean, it was loose, so it was probably a fumble, right? 

Those two stand out the most, where the refs made, clearly, the wrong call and have zero excuse for making it. No one obstructed their view and it was in the play. 

I have no problems where it's really close. But when it's so obvious and they've completely missed it? Those are happening several times per game.

The coaches need the challenge because the refing is so poor. So, so poor. 

[Esks1975]

The most egregious of the blown calls was Jorden knocking down the DB in the end zone? The on-field officials correctly made that call. How that was changed to PI was truly amazing.