Maximum Value for our 1st & 5th picks

[Floyd]

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I thought Richards was a free agent but he's not on the list. I guess he's been signed for 3 years. I know so little about the guy. Could he take Kohlert's spot? 

I believe the book on Richards was that he was a one trick pony and otherwise not really a great route runner.  Two years of injuries is not helping his cause...  I think the Bombers make a splash and sign Coombs.

As for max value on our picks...  I'd trade #1 overall for Trevor Harris - I think Ottawa will need to ship him out, no way Hank gives up the starting role now... or ever...

Very early draft list for Bombers at 5...  Senior, Gray, Bladek, Vandervoort, Herdman

 

 

[Noeller]

19 minutes ago, Floyd said:

 

As for max value on our picks...  I'd trade #1 overall for Trevor Harris

 

This is one of the most insane statements I've ever seen on this board. Wow. I'm not sure I'd trade the #1 for anyone outside of BLM and even then...... 

Other than lose his job to Shitty Burris, what the hell has Harris done?? 

[wbbfan]

20 hours ago, bigg jay said:

 It seems to me the Bombers were set on going OL not picking BPA.  The rankings for OL were Duvernay-Tardiff, Foucault, Lavertu, Goosen.  The top 2 are NFL players who have never played a single down in the CFL and the 3rd guy went 1st overall - leaving Goosen as the highest ranked OL available.  Not quite the reach when you look at it from a team need standpoint.

If you're going to mention that he was ranked 9th & 15th, then you should also mention that he was ranked 5th overall in the January rankings.

Thats what the point was. Aside from this last draft we havent seemed to draft BPA with walters. I didnt list the 5th because it was the January rankings before the season he played. The other two were the post season and post combine/work out listing. Why would i list his ranking before the last season of college he played?

17 hours ago, bearpants said:

I agree that right now, Richards over Durant looks like a bad decision... but I have no problem with Goossen, Briggs, and Waggoner...

Richards THEN was considered a big reach over durant who had fallen out of the first round. As shown, they were reaches. And the original point was that this administration does do things that are considered off board. 

17 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Can anyone tell me who has had a perfect draft and had made no mistakes. Its the draft every pick is not going to work out.

Its not hind sight when your reaching to select players rated rounds below when they are picked.... which was the point.....

15 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Walters has said plenty of times that he believes in taking OL early in the draft so it's not like he totally subscribes to the BPA philosophy. 

I havent seen that. Can you post a link? Would sound about right though. 

9 hours ago, Floyd said:

Complaining about picking a guy who is our starting centre for the foreseeable future... hmm.

Walters jumped the gun on Waggoner... should have offered a 2nd rounder and if he doesn't get him, you still have your first

Richards sounds like he was picked with advice from Bellefuile - nuff said.

 

Its the decision not the out come, but hes the weak spot easily in the line. Struggles to pick up and assign blitz and switch off, etc. 

[wbbfan]

43 minutes ago, Noeller said:

This is one of the most insane statements I've ever seen on this board. Wow. I'm not sure I'd trade the #1 for anyone outside of BLM and even then...... 

Other than lose his job to Shitty Burris, what the hell has Harris done?? 

No joke. He was on fire for the first 4 weeks of the season then was awful. Hes one of the last guys id want. 

[Noeller]

6 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

No joke. He was on fire for the first 4 weeks of the season then was awful. Hes one of the last guys id want. 

Seems to be Trevor Harris's MO so far in his career...

[TBURGESS]

A first round draft pick is the minimum any team has to pay for a QB with starting experience. Toronto gave up the #1 pick and more for Drew Freakin' Willy for gods sake. Saying you wouldn't give up the #1 pick for any QB other than BLM is the same as saying you'd never trade for another teams QB.

[Floyd]

Seems not too long ago that suggesting we sign Messam/Burris/Reilly/etc  was 'the most insane thing ever written on this board'... etc etc etc blah blah blah

First overall is the price of a starting Quarterback and now Harris knows what its like to win.  Harris is just going to get better and better - I think he really hits his stride over the next 3-4 years.

Nichols didn't exactly finish the season 'on fire'...  but whatever, keep the first overall and then complain about Walters pick next year... 

[Mr Dee]

Even if we were seriously interested in Harris, there would be no way the RedBlacks are going to trade their future QB. They have no QB depth.

Burris, O'Brien and Brock Jensen. That's it.

And my thinking is leaning towards a Burris retirement.

 

[bigg jay]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

I didnt list the 5th because it was the January rankings before the season he played. The other two were the post season and post combine/work out listing. Why would i list his ranking before the last season of college he played?

Incorrect, he was ranked 15th (September 2013), then 5th (January 2014) and then finally 9th (April 2014). 

[rebusrankin]

In the last three years, Walters had landed a starter in each draft: Gossen, Chungh and Loffler and contributors in: Waggoner, Corney, Briggs, Courture, Normand and Jones. Seems to have swung and missed on Richards and Morgan. Overall, I'll take it.

[wbbfan]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Seems to be Trevor Harris's MO so far in his career...

yeah pretty much. Soo much potential but hes the QB version of joe first half flemming. Or chris brazzell.

50 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

A first round draft pick is the minimum any team has to pay for a QB with starting experience. Toronto gave up the #1 pick and more for Drew Freakin' Willy for gods sake. Saying you wouldn't give up the #1 pick for any QB other than BLM is the same as saying you'd never trade for another teams QB.

That may well be true. The fact its the top pick changes things though imop. To making a terrible terrible deal doesnt set the market. But your probably right about the starting point being around a first pick. BLM despite being the ****** player of the year and playing on the king maker team in calgary has a value higher then can be quantified. reilly isnt far behind BLM if he is at all. He does a lot more with a lot less imop. Jonathon jennings ended the season and went into the play offs looking real bad. But hes still really young and has worlds of potential. BLM and reilly are worth a kings ransom. Jennings is worth a good bit more then TO paid for willy. The rest are hard to define due to various circumstances. But the next tier of starters are still worth a first. Though more of a gamble. And collaros / harris arent guys id want to gamble on. Or hank. 

You have to consider what glenn was traded for. when he was dealt to us, i think most of the league would have taken him over willy for the short to medium term. 

28 minutes ago, bigg jay said:

Incorrect, he was ranked 15th (September 2013), then 5th (January 2014) and then finally 9th (April 2014). 

then that would be my mistake. Averaged out though 9th the final is about his spot though. which is a big reach from 2. And the point remains the same. Half the first round will have been rated in the top half at some point in the previous year and half or so.  If not more. 

[TBURGESS]

It's not just the Willy trade. The Als traded their first round pick for Vernon Adams. I guess you could say that was a bad trade too, but it does help to set the trade value for young QB's.

I'd give up our first overall for Collaros or Harris (Ottawa and Hamilton wouldn't likely go for it tho) and let them fight it out with Nichols or Durant for the starting spot. Our starting NI's are strong enough to allow us to go for a QB upgrade and having a second first round pick means losing the first overall wouldn't hurt us that much. It's not like it was a few years ago when we had to expect our top 2 draft picks to start in their rookie years.

[Floyd]

34 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

You have to consider what glenn was traded for. when he was dealt to us, i think most of the league would have taken him over willy for the short to medium term. 

At 33 years old, Glenn was traded for Burris...  At 35 years old, Kevin Glenn was traded for the fifth overall pick.  At 37, he's a fourth round pick. 

And you may think that most of the league would have taken him over Willy... but they didn't so you would be wrong. 

First overall means nothing this year, there's no standout, similar to last year.  Revenberg and Singleton are the best 1st round picks so far.

Harris is worth a 1st and probably more right now.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

Why would Ottawa trade Harris? Burris will be 42 & their contracts are structured that Harris gets a big raise & will be the starter while Burris takes a pay cut & will be the backup. Burris is a freak as an athlete but at his age one hit will be all it takes to finish his career. It's just too risky to turn the team over to Burris with no one behind him to be a quality backup or long term starter. I think that the RedBlacks would trade Burris before they trade Harris.

[Floyd]

52 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Why would Ottawa trade Harris? Burris will be 42 & their contracts are structured that Harris gets a big raise & will be the starter while Burris takes a pay cut & will be the backup. Burris is a freak as an athlete but at his age one hit will be all it takes to finish his career. It's just too risky to turn the team over to Burris with no one behind him to be a quality backup or long term starter. I think that the RedBlacks would trade Burris before they trade Harris.

Harris is due over $400k next season...  I think he was around 250k this season - I'm not saying they want to trade him... but I think the right deal makes it happen.

After Hank won the Grey Cup, hard to ditch him and now he's started talking about playing five more years... something's gonna give.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

Harris is due over $400k next season...  I think he was around 250k this season - I'm not saying they want to trade him... but I think the right deal makes it happen.

After Hank won the Grey Cup, hard to ditch him and now he's started talking about playing five more years... something's gonna give.

No team is ever going to favour a 42 year old qb over a 30 year old. If Burris was smart he'd take the GC win & ride off into the sunset. However, Burris has a huge ego & he wants the spotlight as either a Grey Cup winner or as a "Poor Me" tragedy if he's benched next year. So, I think he continues to play. I don't think he can actually retire with grace. He'll hang around until he is no longer is wanted & then cry the blues.

Edited December 10, 2016 by SpeedFlex27

[Dr. Blue]

5 hours ago, wbbfan said:

yeah pretty much. Soo much potential but hes the QB version of joe first half flemming. Or chris brazzell.

That may well be true. The fact its the top pick changes things though imop. To making a terrible terrible deal doesnt set the market. But your probably right about the starting point being around a first pick. BLM despite being the ****** player of the year and playing on the king maker team in calgary has a value higher then can be quantified. reilly isnt far behind BLM if he is at all. He does a lot more with a lot less imop. Jonathon jennings ended the season and went into the play offs looking real bad. But hes still really young and has worlds of potential. BLM and reilly are worth a kings ransom. Jennings is worth a good bit more then TO paid for willy. The rest are hard to define due to various circumstances. But the next tier of starters are still worth a first. Though more of a gamble. And collaros / harris arent guys id want to gamble on. Or hank. 

You have to consider what glenn was traded for. when he was dealt to us, i think most of the league would have taken him over willy for the short to medium term. 

then that would be my mistake. Averaged out though 9th the final is about his spot though. which is a big reach from 2. And the point remains the same. Half the first round will have been rated in the top half at some point in the previous year and half or so.  If not more. 

As it was mentioned before, the Bombers were not in a position to draft BPA. They desperately needed OL, which we still need. We specifically needed a C at the time. Goossen was the BOLA, as the draft class was pretty underwhelming for OL. Duvernay-Tardif and Foucault have yet to make it to the CFL, and Player (drafted in the 2nd round) has already bounced around the league, including a cup of coffee with the Bombers. If they don't take Goossen, where does that leave them? The CFL scouting bureau is not the be all end all. Teams have their own scouting department for a reason.

I'm still not even sure they are now in a position to draft BPA. We still need an OL in the first round and should also really be looking at a receiver.

As for Durant, maybe the Bombers interviewed him and something about him turned them off. The guy did slide down pretty far in the draft, so it wasn't just the Bombers who didn't like something. 

 

[Goalie]

I'd trade the 1st for Reilly Or Harris.  I'd probably pass on Colaros at this point.. he's just so injury prone. But probably not the first overall. I'd probably look at Gray or the big receiver not in the top 3. 

[Floyd]

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

No team is ever going to favour a 42 year old qb over a 30 year old. If Burris was smart he'd take the GC win & ride off into the sunset. However, Burris has a huge ego & he wants the spotlight as either a Grey Cup winner or as a "Poor Me" tragedy if he's benched next year. So, I think he continues to play. I don't think he can actually retire with grace. He'll hang around until he is no longer is wanted & then cry the blues.

Hello Ricky Ray!!!

[Brandon]

Burris goes to Saskatchewan... DDurant to  Montreal

Edited December 11, 2016 by Brandon

[Noeller]

4 hours ago, Goalie said:

I'd trade the 1st for Reilly Or Harris.  I'd probably pass on Colaros at this point.. he's just so injury prone. But probably not the first overall. I'd probably look at Gray or the big receiver not in the top 3. 

How are Reilly and Harris even in the same conversation??? 

[wbbfan]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:14 PM, Floyd said:

At 33 years old, Glenn was traded for Burris...  At 35 years old, Kevin Glenn was traded for the fifth overall pick.  At 37, he's a fourth round pick. 

And you may think that most of the league would have taken him over Willy... but they didn't so you would be wrong. 

First overall means nothing this year, there's no standout, similar to last year.  Revenberg and Singleton are the best 1st round picks so far.

Harris is worth a 1st and probably more right now.

 

toronto didnt so i would be wrong? by that logic because TO did would the rest of the league trade an all star DB under contract next year + a first rounder from a basement team for willy? No of course not. That situation does not by any means set the norm. 

toronto seemed to hope for the future in the willy trade. Id say most of the teams in the league would take glenn for a portion of a season or 1 season over willy. Easily. 

First over all means you have the ability to pre sign the guy and look at who you think is in the top tier who is signable and get a deal done.  That said this crop DOES have a top talent available. Hes too high quality of a prospect, thats the problem. 

On 12/10/2016 at 5:38 PM, Dr. Blue said:

As it was mentioned before, the Bombers were not in a position to draft BPA. They desperately needed OL, which we still need. We specifically needed a C at the time. Goossen was the BOLA, as the draft class was pretty underwhelming for OL. Duvernay-Tardif and Foucault have yet to make it to the CFL, and Player (drafted in the 2nd round) has already bounced around the league, including a cup of coffee with the Bombers. If they don't take Goossen, where does that leave them? The CFL scouting bureau is not the be all end all. Teams have their own scouting department for a reason.

I'm still not even sure they are now in a position to draft BPA. We still need an OL in the first round and should also really be looking at a receiver.

As for Durant, maybe the Bombers interviewed him and something about him turned them off. The guy did slide down pretty far in the draft, so it wasn't just the Bombers who didn't like something. 

 

You are allways in a position to take BPA. And goosen didnt become a league average quality starting center till this year. he wasnt a sure thing or close to it. 

With couture, chung, goosen, bond, bryant, hardrick and foketi + a possible return of keeping / neufeld AND strong NI depth plus ratio breakers the bombers dont have to force an OL pick by any means. I would really like to see gray here though. If any position needs to be addressed its NI WR. 

[BigBlue]

I hope one of our first rounders is a receiver .... I don't care whether our first overall is an offensive or defensive lineman ... as long as we pick the opposite side of the ball with our second round pick

[JCon]

21 hours ago, BigBlue said:

I hope one of our first rounders is a receiver .... I don't care whether our first overall is an offensive or defensive lineman ... as long as we pick the opposite side of the ball with our second round pick

I hope we take the best player available during the draft and fill the rest of our needs in FA.

[BigBlue]

7 hours ago, JCon said:

I hope we take the best player available

what is "best player available" any way? unless there is a superstar in waiting who is not NFL bound the whole concept seems nebulous and murky