Rogue One *SPOILERS*

[The Unknown Poster]

When I read the rumour I thought of it as a Snoke trick, making it appear a tormented and evil Anakin (as he'd look post-Sith burning) appearing to him to guide him.  You could also have Anakin appear to Luke.  It would not make sense, in fact, if none of Yoda, Ben and Anakin appear to him.  So certainly we should get some force ghosts in the next film.

As for how Anakin could be a force ghost, he looked confused when Obi Wan vanished.  We can assume he went to Palpatine for guidance or learned it on his own.

I just feel like the mystery surrounding Snoke requires something interesting and cool and some connection to the over-all saga.

[Logan007]

3 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

There was a strong rumour that Vader & Anakin as two separate force ghosts would appear to torment Luke. 

I dont like the idea that Snoke is a whole new character.  And if he wasn't, the production wouldnt admit it.  If he's new, that undermines the original 6 part saga.  It spanned, what 30+ years?  And Palpatine's plan was in motion for years prior to that.  So the Sith had this plan for decades, get defeated by the one remaining Jedi but all the while Snoke is chillin', waiting for the Empire to crash and burn before he interjects?  Seems like a terrible plan.

There has long been rumors of Anakin appearing.  In TFA, Kylo speaks to Vader's mask but he says "show me again Grandfather".  That implies he's been shown something previously.  Has Kylo and Anakin been in contact previously?

I don't think they'll separate Anakin/Vader either.  What may have happened with the helmet, is the same thing that happened with Rey and the lightsaber.  Perhaps when he touched it, it showed something to Ben.  Something dark that's imbued into it.

As far as Snoke.  I think he's someone new and I don't have issues with that.  Hidalgo came out and said he's not Plagueis, neither is he or Kylo a Sith.  The Sith are gone.  Snoke has been around for a long time, I'm not sure how old his race lives, but he's been around since the prequels it seems.  And as I said, he's supposedly 8' tall.  Hidalgo also stated that in the book he refers to Leia by her first name.  This also implies that he knew Leia before TFA.

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, Logan007 said:

I don't think they'll separate Anakin/Vader either.  What may have happened with the helmet, is the same thing that happened with Rey and the lightsaber.  Perhaps when he touched it, it showed something to Ben.  Something dark that's imbued into it.

As far as Snoke.  I think he's someone new and I don't have issues with that.  Hidalgo came out and said he's not Plagueis, neither is he or Kylo a Sith.  The Sith are gone.  Snoke has been around for a long time, I'm not sure how old his race lives, but he's been around since the prequels it seems.  And as I said, he's supposedly 8' tall.  Hidalgo also stated that in the book he refers to Leia by her first name.  This also implies that he knew Leia before TFA.

Thats a good suggestion about the Helmet.  Hopefully we see a flashback like that, sort of a dark side perception of things.  It would make sense of the original idea that Kylo was obsessed with finding dark side or "Vader" items.

The thing about the Sith being gone, it just seems too much of a coincidence.  Sith are gone but the new bad guy is also old and evil and is training an apprentice in the ways for the dark side of the force.  Plus rebuilding an army in the image of the Empire.  has to be some connection there.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I think Luke's upbringing was the difference between he and anakin.  If you look at anakin he was a slave, and used the force (likely) to win anything he got like in the pod races.  Luke lived a sheltered life basically being uncle owens lap dog on the dirt farm, but at least it was a loving and islolated environment considering the planet they were on.   

Luke also didnt slaughter sand people rescuing his ravaged mom so that likely spared him a lot emotional struggle.  I keep thinking back to anakins eyes though when he first becomes vader and before the suit - like when he slaughters the younglings at the jedi temple. That was a whole new level of hate and evil in him.  He might have hated the sith and what have you,  but there's no denying he was completely consumed by the dark side. 

With luke the only real outburst I saw in him was when Vader revealed he was his father and does that little pansy nooooo. other then that he was not the emotional wreck anakin was

[The Unknown Poster]

11 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I think Luke's upbringing was the difference between he and anakin.  If you look at anakin he was a slave, and used the force (likely) to win anything he got like in the pod races.  Luke lived a sheltered life basically being uncle owens lap dog on the dirt farm, but at least it was a loving and islolated environment considering the planet they were on.   

Luke also didnt slaughter sand people rescuing his ravaged mom so that likely spared him a lot emotional struggle.  I keep thinking back to anakins eyes though when he first becomes vader and before the suit - like when he slaughters the younglings at the jedi temple. That was a whole new level of hate and evil in him.  He might have hated the sith and what have you,  but there's no denying he was completely consumed by the dark side. 

With luke the only real outburst I saw in him was when Vader revealed he was his father and does that little pansy nooooo. other then that he was not the emotional wreck anakin was

Luke lost it in Jedi when Vader learned he had a sister and threatened to turn her instead. 

He also was incensed watching the Rebel fleet getting beat up but controlled his emotions...for awhile.  He then force grabbed his saber and the fight with vader was on.

[tacklewasher]

Not to stop the discussion, but Lucas films has confirmed they will not do the CGI job on Carrie Fisher.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3181058/carrie-fisher-star-wars/

 

[Brandon]

Any other series they would hire a new actress. The nerds would revolt if they did that with her.  

[tacklewasher]

I'd be fine if they use CGI to deal with her death. But no, I don't think they should do as much as they did with Tarkin. Just doesn't seem right to me. And no they can't replace her.

[Taynted_Fayth]

so no leia in Episode IX?  from my understanding they finished shooting VIII right before Fisher's death, so I wonder if this is a bit of a spoiler something happens to the character in this upcoming movie, cuz I can't imagine Leia being written out of IX even if Fisher was still alive, unless of course the character was no longer there

[johnzo]

On 1/13/2017 at 10:31 AM, The Unknown Poster said:

The thing about the Sith being gone, it just seems too much of a coincidence.  Sith are gone but the new bad guy is also old and evil and is training an apprentice in the ways for the dark side of the force.

We don't know much about what happened with the Kylo's Knights of Ren buddies that we see in TFA's flashback. The rule with these new darkside guys might not be "one master, one apprentice."  There might be a whole bunch of Rens out there mopefucking the galaxy.

[The Unknown Poster]

The director of IX had said he had plans for her more than the previous two. Im sort of bummed because I'd like them to do something cool to honour her but I guess they can still do that without having her appear.

i guess the crawl for IX opens with "General Leia Organa has died..."

Perhaos IX ends with a Leia force ghost...

[Taynted_Fayth]

15 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

The director of IX had said he had plans for her more than the previous two. Im sort of bummed because I'd like them to do something cool to honour her but I guess they can still do that without having her appear.

i guess the crawl for IX opens with "General Leia Organa has died..."

Perhaos IX ends with a Leia force ghost...

that crossed my mind but they missed that opportunity the moment they decided not to have her learn the ways of the force in any of the previous movies. 

I guess hindsight at play, but had they written it up like in ep. VIII kylo was still being torn between the light and dark and leia was a prominent  remaining reason for that (like his talk with han on the bridge before he shanks him) and Snoke notices this, he has leia assassinated.  I mentioned it before but some of the dialog Snoke has with Kylo ren in the book aftermath he gives his opinion on the empire

Quote

"Kylo Ren, I watched the Empire rise, and then fall. The gullible prattle on about the triumph of truth and justice, of individualism and free will. As if such things were solid and real. It was neither poor strategy nor arrogance that brought down the Empire. Lord Vader not succumbed to emotion at the crucial moment—had the father killed the son—the Empire would have prevailed."

so if Snoke is seeing a similar situation where Kylo Ren might screw up things with his lingering love for his mother, simple solution is get rid of the mom.   

[The Unknown Poster]

There's evidence Leia was at least force sensitive with zero training.  She told Han (I think it was) that Luke was okay after the death star explosion.  She said she had images of her mother.  Luke told her the force was strong in her.  She felt Han's death.  etc.  Thats a long way from Force Ghost.  But you never know.

[Logan007]

From what I've read in books, I think it's implied that Leia is just as powerful as Luke is, she just doesn't train in the ways of the Jedi.  She uses her force abilities more for battle planning, politics, etc...  She felt Han die from light years away.  Yoda and Luke pretty much stated that Leia is force sensitive.

As for her in episode 9,  I actually hope they recast her.  I think it's what Carrie would have wanted.  That's just her personality, the show must go on.  Plus the Leia character is more then just Carrie Fisher.  No one can replace what she already did, but we need to move on and just tell the story that they had planned out.

[The Unknown Poster]

4 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

From what I've read in books, I think it's implied that Leia is just as powerful as Luke is, she just doesn't train in the ways of the Jedi.  She uses her force abilities more for battle planning, politics, etc...  She felt Han die from light years away.  Yoda and Luke pretty much stated that Leia is force sensitive.

As for her in episode 9,  I actually hope they recast her.  I think it's what Carrie would have wanted.  That's just her personality, the show must go on.  Plus the Leia character is more then just Carrie Fisher.  No one can replace what she already did, but we need to move on and just tell the story that they had planned out.

I'd be against a re-cast.  They could use archival footage and use her character in a different way (flashback, speaking to Kylo or Luke).  The fact they've dismissed the idea of CGI immediately is interesting.  Makes me think her role in IX wasnt critical, despite the director previously saying otherwise.

When I was waiting for TFA to begin for the first time, I was nervous.  They could have screwed it up.  But the opening line of the opening crawl made me realise they got it right: "Luke Skywalker Has Vanished" so I do think the crawl for IX will reference Leia in a similar way "Leia Organa has died".  it will be seen as something that threatens the entire movement.  In that way, Leia's importance to the saga will weigh over the film without her having to be involved.

And I do hope they keep Luke alive.  I sort of thought they'd keep him alive throughout anyway.  Instinctively you think he's the Obi Wan role and would die in VIII but do we really want all three lead characters to die?  IX should end in a homage to Jedi with Luke (and Rey) gazing upon their fallen friends...and somehow referencing Leia and Han at the same time.

[Taynted_Fayth]

I wouldnt want a re-cast because I think it would steal too much thunder from the movie, with the microscope on who ever replaced fisher.  potential for riots in the US with chants of "not my princess" as well

[Logan007]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

When I was waiting for TFA to begin for the first time, I was nervous.  They could have screwed it up.  But the opening line of the opening crawl made me realise they got it right: "Luke Skywalker Has Vanished" so I do think the crawl for IX will reference Leia in a similar way "Leia Organa has died".  it will be seen as something that threatens the entire movement.  In that way, Leia's importance to the saga will weigh over the film without her having to be involved.

To me, that would be the WORST way to kill her character off.  Off screen with nothing but an opening line?  And you can't compare that line to Luke Skywalker has vanished.  Vanish and death are two different things.  The whole point of TFA was the search for Luke Skywalker.  If they're going to kill her off, do it with a body double on screen somehow and give her a good send off.

I believe the reason they automatically dismissed the CGI is that it would disrespect the memory of Carrie Fisher, just like if they did it to any other actor who has died recently.  Recasting would not do that.  I've read a lot of fans saying they'd have no issue with recast, I've also read a lot that want CGI and others saying to kill her off.  But you have to do service to the story too.  If the story absolutely needs her in it, then I say recast her.  I was against it at first, but now I'm coming around because I want to hear the story the way it was meant to be told, not some jiggered story line that needs to be tinkered and may mess up the entire story arch they were trying to create.

[The Unknown Poster]

24 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

To me, that would be the WORST way to kill her character off.  Off screen with nothing but an opening line?  And you can't compare that line to Luke Skywalker has vanished.  Vanish and death are two different things.  The whole point of TFA was the search for Luke Skywalker.  If they're going to kill her off, do it with a body double on screen somehow and give her a good send off.

I believe the reason they automatically dismissed the CGI is that it would disrespect the memory of Carrie Fisher, just like if they did it to any other actor who has died recently.  Recasting would not do that.  I've read a lot of fans saying they'd have no issue with recast, I've also read a lot that want CGI and others saying to kill her off.  But you have to do service to the story too.  If the story absolutely needs her in it, then I say recast her.  I was against it at first, but now I'm coming around because I want to hear the story the way it was meant to be told, not some jiggered story line that needs to be tinkered and may mess up the entire story arch they were trying to create.

If the story needs her, I see no reason not to use CGI.  They proved with Tarkin that the technology is there.  Unless her family is against it.  But I sort of doubt that.

I just think a new actor will be jarring.  And any emotions derived from the scenes wont feel legitimate. I sure hope we got a Luke & Leia scene in VIII.

[Logan007]

They better.  I just can't believe we lost out on a Luke/Han scene.  Watching TFA, it seemed the way Han was talking that they either left on bad terms, or Han just felt bad for Luke because of what happened with Ben.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Finally saw RO. Really confusing beginning but everything worked out by the end.

The CGI was okay. I thought they added some face weight to what the characters looked liked in ANH but it is what it is.

Vader height about right taking in Hayden's height. Thought the cowling below the helmet was a bit diff.

Those star destroyers just are not that useful are they? Pushing them around now?

Also that was a lousy aim by the Death Star firing at Scarif at the end but I guess it made for a good sunset fade out.

Edited March 20, 2017 by FrostyWinnipeg