Rogue One *SPOILERS*

[johnzo]

Can't say much about Forest Whittaker's acting, but I gotta say I really liked Saw Gererra's look. Dude had some serious mileage on him. He's what Vader would look like if the Emperor had built him in the garage.

I like FW generally, though.  I thought he was great in Arrival, which is a great movie that everyone should see.

[Taynted_Fayth]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

They're lucky a Jedi came along eventually. Although come to think of it, didn't the A alliance destroy the second death star with both Vader and the Emperor on it with no help from Luke?

well once they got the shields down on Endor, i'm sure the unfinished but fully functional 2nd death star was a lot easier to destroy.  the first was trying to thread a needle

[The Unknown Poster]

2 minutes ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

well once they got the shields down on Endor, i'm sure the unfinished but fully functional 2nd death star was a lot easier to destroy.  the first was trying to thread a needle

True.  Luke's force abilities destroyed the first death star but in Return of the Jedi, the second death star was destroyed without his help.  And Vader and Palpatine were both killed regardless of Luke's intervention. 

[JCon]

I loved the film.

I appreciated all the scenes/frames that they reshot in homage to Star Wars: A New Hope. It felt very natural.

[Atomic]

48 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Can't say much about Forest Whittaker's acting, but I gotta say I really liked Saw Gererra's look. Dude had some serious mileage on him. He's what Vader would look like if the Emperor had built him in the garage.

I like FW generally, though.  I thought he was great in Arrival, which is a great movie that everyone should see.

Wanted to see Arrival when it first came out but I'd forgotten about it.  I'll try to find it and watch it.  The trailers looked good.

[Taynted_Fayth]

i saw some, i dont know if it's inside knowledge or just theories out there but apparently there is a deleted scene with Vader in bacta tank (castle scene) being assembled. theres apparently a comic version of it,  so that's where im not sure if it's legit or just running with that but watching some of the Youtube vids with people talking about it being in the blu ray version has me interested

[Logan007]

20 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

They're lucky a Jedi came along eventually. Although come to think of it, didn't the A alliance destroy the second death star with both Vader and the Emperor on it with no help from Luke?

Actually, I read somewhere that the Emperor's ability with the force inspired and imbued the Empire with confidence and power, and when Luke went to stand up to him and Vader, the Emperor's force abilities waned as the battle went on which caused the turn in the tide.  So in effect, Luke did have something to do with the battle.  Had he not been there, the Empire would have won.

If you watch RotJ, you can actually see as Luke starts to win, so do the other two groups on land and in space.

[The Unknown Poster]

5 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Actually, I read somewhere that the Emperor's ability with the force inspired and imbued the Empire with confidence and power, and when Luke went to stand up to him and Vader, the Emperor's force abilities waned as the battle went on which caused the turn in the tide.  So in effect, Luke did have something to do with the battle.  Had he not been there, the Empire would have won.

If you watch RotJ, you can actually see as Luke starts to win, so do the other two groups on land and in space.

meh I dont think that is illustrated on-screen.  The series is great but a product of its time.  If Jedi was made today, they'd cut the Ewoks and make Luke more directly responsible for the victory over the Empire.

[MOBomberFan]

9 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Actually, I read somewhere that the Emperor's ability with the force inspired and imbued the Empire with confidence and power, and when Luke went to stand up to him and Vader, the Emperor's force abilities waned as the battle went on which caused the turn in the tide.  So in effect, Luke did have something to do with the battle.  Had he not been there, the Empire would have won.

If you watch RotJ, you can actually see as Luke starts to win, so do the other two groups on land and in space.

I was thinking something similar. Has anyone here played KOTOR? Bastila Shan, a Jedi trained in "Battle Meditation" could heavily influence the outcome of a battle using the force. Not sure if KOTOR is canon or not, but it damn well should be!

[Logan007]

1 hour ago, The Unknown Poster said:

meh I dont think that is illustrated on-screen.  The series is great but a product of its time.  If Jedi was made today, they'd cut the Ewoks and make Luke more directly responsible for the victory over the Empire.

No, it was never illustrated on screen.  It's not even canon, but it's the only reference there is at this point.  It's from one of the EU novels that says he uses the force to kind of buff his troops.  I mean, if he could use the force to influence the senate and millions/billions of people to believe what he wanted, I don't see an issue to using the force to help your troops out.

But either way, if Luke wasn't there, Vader and the Emperor could have escaped and the Empire would have continued.  So his contribution wasn't so much destroying the death star as it was destroying the main bad guy who could have restarted the whole shabang all over again.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Logan007

[17to85]

11 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

No, it was never illustrated on screen.  It's not even canon, but it's the only reference there is at this point.  It's from one of the EU novels that says he uses the force to kind of buff his troops.  I mean, if he could use the force to influence the senate and millions/billions of people to believe what he wanted, I don't see an issue to using the force to help your troops out.

But either way, if Luke wasn't there, Vader and the Emperor could have escaped and the Empire would have continued.  So his contribution wasn't so much destroying the death star as it was destroying the main bad guy who could have restarted the whole shabang all over again.

Not to mention that as it became clear that Luke was a powerful Jedi in his own right the entire focus of Vader and the Emperor became either turning Luke to the darkside or killing him because they were that afraid of how he could **** them up otherwise. And really he is directly responsible for Vader and Palpatine dying because we saw that Luke himself had plenty of time to escape before the 2nd death star went kaboom so anyone who thinks Vader or the Emperor couldn't have got out is only lying to themselves. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

I starting watching that clone wars cartoon out of boredom yesterday, and while I watch count dooku shoot lightning at anakin I can't help but wonder why Vader never learns the lightning move, nor did Darth Maul.  I got to thinking about the entire saga as whole, and palpatine's "teaching" limitations or restrictions. It's clear he doesnt show his apprentices all the ways of the dark side,  but he must have shown anakin how to turn into a ghost at some point when he was promising him (as anakin) a way to cheat death.  So why didn't palpatine go into ghost mode as he was tossed down that hole in ROTJ.   At first I thought maybe you needed to be struck down like Obi wan,  but Yoda just dies so that adds different methods to turning... 

also I've been seeing this a lot recently, is it possible Anakin and Vader somehow split into 2 entities 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Taynted_Fayth

[Logan007]

Anakin and Snoke are not the same.  That dumb theory has been debunked so many times.  Snoke is 8 feet tall (not talking about his 20 foot tall hologram projection).  Also, if you look at the scar, it's obviously different.  Do you think Lucasfilm would mess that up?

Pablo Hidalgo has already stated that Snoke is a whole new character.

[Taynted_Fayth]

1 hour ago, Logan007 said:

Anakin and Snoke are not the same.  That dumb theory has been debunked so many times.  Snoke is 8 feet tall (not talking about his 20 foot tall hologram projection).  Also, if you look at the scar, it's obviously different.  Do you think Lucasfilm would mess that up?

Pablo Hidalgo has already stated that Snoke is a whole new character.

i know there's a .000001% chance they are the same,  but its interesting looking at the pic that they have similar scars both on the head and left cheek.  i guess for my amusement i was picturing snoke in his hologram - or "force ghost" form as a completely manifested being from the darkness in anakin. that once Luke got him to turn again in ROTJ, it was too powerful to just simply be done with cuz Luke suddenly makes him see the light as hes gettin his ass lit up

Edited January 12, 2017 by Taynted_Fayth

[Logan007]

Actually the scars aren't very similar.  They look similar when people use a photo that has too much shadow.  But if you look at what Snoke really looks like you'll see the scar on his head is more in the center rather then on the side like Vader.  And the scar on his face isn't a scar at all, but a huge gash.

 

Edit: Also, we saw Anakin at the end of RotJ as a force ghost.  Plus, why would Kylo be talking to Vader's helmet if this guy was his Grandfather?

Edited January 12, 2017 by Logan007

[Taynted_Fayth]

2 hours ago, Logan007 said:

Actually the scars aren't very similar.  They look similar when people use a photo that has too much shadow.  But if you look at what Snoke really looks like you'll see the scar on his head is more in the center rather then on the side like Vader.  And the scar on his face isn't a scar at all, but a huge gash.

 

Edit: Also, we saw Anakin at the end of RotJ as a force ghost.  Plus, why would Kylo be talking to Vader's helmet if this guy was his Grandfather?

thats where in my little fantasy a 2nd entity was spawned in the force when Vader suddenly becomes anakin again.  I guess after all the terror and murder that came at the hands of vader, I find it hard to buy that suddenly because he threw the emperor down the hole, that he can become fair haired anakin in force ghost form? that was a lot of evil, hate and darkness that just suddenly evaporated?

I'd believe it more if you can purge the darkness out of you but that darkness still has some kind of celestial form/force ghost.  As far as Kylo talking to the helmet, maybe that was just something he does. like a person talking to an urn or a picture of a lost loved one.  Maybe force ghost "vader" saw this as an opportunity to corrupt him when he saw the fascination with his fallen grandpa, but took the guise of snoke to not only turn him to the darkside, but try to learn from where vader failed.

again all just bs'in around here lol just thought those pics looked similar originally and got some story brewin in my head;  would set up for a episode VIII "Kylo.... I am your grand father..."

Edited January 13, 2017 by Taynted_Fayth

[Logan007]

I think Anakin has always been fighting between darkness and light.  I don't think he ever wanted to be a Sith, and actually hated them, but went to them out of necessity.  He loved his mother and wife, and would kill for them, so it's not hard to believe that if you **** with his kid, he's going to hand you your ass.  That's where the Emperor went wrong.  Anakin's biggest weakness is his love of his family.  I think when you see your son love you unconditionally, even after all the crap and evil that you've done, you start to take a hard look at yourself on the inside.  Sometimes it just takes one little thing to flip the switch in your brain to make you change the way you think.

[wbbfan]

18 hours ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

I starting watching that clone wars cartoon out of boredom yesterday, and while I watch count dooku shoot lightning at anakin I can't help but wonder why Vader never learns the lightning move, nor did Darth Maul.  I got to thinking about the entire saga as whole, and palpatine's "teaching" limitations or restrictions. It's clear he doesnt show his apprentices all the ways of the dark side,  but he must have shown anakin how to turn into a ghost at some point when he was promising him (as anakin) a way to cheat death.  So why didn't palpatine go into ghost mode as he was tossed down that hole in ROTJ.   At first I thought maybe you needed to be struck down like Obi wan,  but Yoda just dies so that adds different methods to turning... 

also I've been seeing this a lot recently, is it possible Anakin and Vader somehow split into 2 entities 

 

Maul was an instrument for sidious and plagueis. Sidious was actually pretty disdainful of most of the "lesser" alien races. Maul was a great natural talent and physical specimen because sidious got him pretty much as a baby and raised him for that purpose. He was never an actual candidate for sidious to keep as an apprentice.

Vaders connection to the force was kind of funny. Due to the amount of tech that replaced and propped up his body he was prematurely peaked in terms of power. Also not all sith force users have an affinity for dark side magic. The sith had several areas of study and anakin/vader was more in the Bane line of pursuit. Vader and sidious were also contemptuous for each other. With vader making plans to over throw sidious and sidous saddling vader with bureaucrats etc.

I dont think there is any chance snoke is vader. I really doubt it would be any one from the original trilogy. Even from the EU. I expect itll be more of an alluded to dark force off in uncharted distant regions of space. If it is some one from the EU or OT, i would be pretty thrilled so long as its done well.

9 hours ago, Logan007 said:

I think Anakin has always been fighting between darkness and light.  I don't think he ever wanted to be a Sith, and actually hated them, but went to them out of necessity.  He loved his mother and wife, and would kill for them, so it's not hard to believe that if you **** with his kid, he's going to hand you your ass.  That's where the Emperor went wrong.  Anakin's biggest weakness is his love of his family.  I think when you see your son love you unconditionally, even after all the crap and evil that you've done, you start to take a hard look at yourself on the inside.  Sometimes it just takes one little thing to flip the switch in your brain to make you change the way you think.

I think he became heavily disillusioned with the jedi and the line between good and bad. And decided to walk his own path. But got stuck in the gravity and web of sidious.

[The Unknown Poster]

19 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Not to mention that as it became clear that Luke was a powerful Jedi in his own right the entire focus of Vader and the Emperor became either turning Luke to the darkside or killing him because they were that afraid of how he could **** them up otherwise. And really he is directly responsible for Vader and Palpatine dying because we saw that Luke himself had plenty of time to escape before the 2nd death star went kaboom so anyone who thinks Vader or the Emperor couldn't have got out is only lying to themselves. 

Yeah that's true.  Thats a good point.

[Logan007]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

I think he became heavily disillusioned with the jedi and the line between good and bad. And decided to walk his own path. But got stuck in the gravity and web of sidious.

Agreed.  In looking back, you could almost see that Anakin could have taken the same path as Luke had he not been held down by all the dogmatism of the Jedi and the swaying of Palpatine.  They always seemed to be trying to tie him down and force him to be what he wasn't.  Obi-Wan blames himself for Vader in the original trilogy, but if you look back, had he kept Anakin away from Palpatine and had the Jedi not been around and it was just Obi-Wan training Anakin, I believe he would have had much more success.  Even with his attachment to Padme and his mom.  The one difference I see between Luke and Anakin, is that Luke has always been more at one with the force.  Whereas Anakin just used it to kick ass it seemed.  He never wanted to listen to Yoda about meditation, and being calm.  Anakin was a man of action, Luke is a man of wisdom/action.  Luke is very much the balance.  And Luke/Leia did the same thing to Ben that the Jedi did to Anakin.  They kept information away from them.  They never told Ben about Vader being his grandfather until 6 years before TFA, then he all of a sudden finds out that information, along with Snoke whispering in his ear, just like Palpatine with Anakin.

You know, thinking about the prequels, the ideas behind them were really good.  Lucas's ideas and how thing played out were amazing.  But his writing and directing just royally messed it up.  It's too bad he didn't let someone more competent do those two parts.  I also think Disney should hire him back on to bring ideas to the franchise.  Don't let him write or direct anything, just let him be the idea man behind it.  He links things up pretty well.

[The Unknown Poster]

There was a strong rumour that Vader & Anakin as two separate force ghosts would appear to torment Luke. 

I dont like the idea that Snoke is a whole new character.  And if he wasn't, the production wouldnt admit it.  If he's new, that undermines the original 6 part saga.  It spanned, what 30+ years?  And Palpatine's plan was in motion for years prior to that.  So the Sith had this plan for decades, get defeated by the one remaining Jedi but all the while Snoke is chillin', waiting for the Empire to crash and burn before he interjects?  Seems like a terrible plan.

There has long been rumors of Anakin appearing.  In TFA, Kylo speaks to Vader's mask but he says "show me again Grandfather".  That implies he's been shown something previously.  Has Kylo and Anakin been in contact previously?

[The Unknown Poster]

17 minutes ago, Logan007 said:

Agreed.  In looking back, you could almost see that Anakin could have taken the same path as Luke had he not been held down by all the dogmatism of the Jedi and the swaying of Palpatine.  They always seemed to be trying to tie him down and force him to be what he wasn't.  Obi-Wan blames himself for Vader in the original trilogy, but if you look back, had he kept Anakin away from Palpatine and had the Jedi not been around and it was just Obi-Wan training Anakin, I believe he would have had much more success.  Even with his attachment to Padme and his mom.  The one difference I see between Luke and Anakin, is that Luke has always been more at one with the force.  Whereas Anakin just used it to kick ass it seemed.  He never wanted to listen to Yoda about meditation, and being calm.  Anakin was a man of action, Luke is a man of wisdom/action.  Luke is very much the balance.  And Luke/Leia did the same thing to Ben that the Jedi did to Anakin.  They kept information away from them.  They never told Ben about Vader being his grandfather until 6 years before TFA, then he all of a sudden finds out that information, along with Snoke whispering in his ear, just like Palpatine with Anakin.

You know, thinking about the prequels, the ideas behind them were really good.  Lucas's ideas and how thing played out were amazing.  But his writing and directing just royally messed it up.  It's too bad he didn't let someone more competent do those two parts.  I also think Disney should hire him back on to bring ideas to the franchise.  Don't let him write or direct anything, just let him be the idea man behind it.  He links things up pretty well.

It was probably a happy accident but Luke was very much like Anakin.  Emotional.  Wanting to help his friends.  Quick to anger.  Impatient etc.  Anakin was turned almost without realizing it.  Whereas Luke was so focused on not turning.  Vader tried to use Leia in the way Palpatine used Padme.  And Luke had the same reaction as Anakin.  But at the moment of "strike him down", anakin did.  Luke did not.  He was willing to die himself.  Anakin wasnt.

[Atomic]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I dont like the idea that Snoke is a whole new character.  And if he wasn't, the production wouldnt admit it.  If he's new, that undermines the original 6 part saga.  It spanned, what 30+ years?  And Palpatine's plan was in motion for years prior to that.  So the Sith had this plan for decades, get defeated by the one remaining Jedi but all the while Snoke is chillin', waiting for the Empire to crash and burn before he interjects?  Seems like a terrible plan.

I get the general idea but isn't there ~20 years between Episode 6 and Episode 7?  Maybe Snoke gained the bulk of his power in that time, and he was too weak to have any real effect around the time of the original trilogy.

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, Logan007 said:

Agreed.  In looking back, you could almost see that Anakin could have taken the same path as Luke had he not been held down by all the dogmatism of the Jedi and the swaying of Palpatine.  They always seemed to be trying to tie him down and force him to be what he wasn't.  Obi-Wan blames himself for Vader in the original trilogy, but if you look back, had he kept Anakin away from Palpatine and had the Jedi not been around and it was just Obi-Wan training Anakin, I believe he would have had much more success.  Even with his attachment to Padme and his mom.  The one difference I see between Luke and Anakin, is that Luke has always been more at one with the force.  Whereas Anakin just used it to kick ass it seemed.  He never wanted to listen to Yoda about meditation, and being calm.  Anakin was a man of action, Luke is a man of wisdom/action.  Luke is very much the balance.  And Luke/Leia did the same thing to Ben that the Jedi did to Anakin.  They kept information away from them.  They never told Ben about Vader being his grandfather until 6 years before TFA, then he all of a sudden finds out that information, along with Snoke whispering in his ear, just like Palpatine with Anakin.

You know, thinking about the prequels, the ideas behind them were really good.  Lucas's ideas and how thing played out were amazing.  But his writing and directing just royally messed it up.  It's too bad he didn't let someone more competent do those two parts.  I also think Disney should hire him back on to bring ideas to the franchise.  Don't let him write or direct anything, just let him be the idea man behind it.  He links things up pretty well.

Yeah. Anakin allways had a chip on his shoulder. Luke has desire, but tempered with reason and responsibility. 

The clone wars series did anakin soo much better then the prequels. I pretend the prequels are the quality equivalent of how lucas arts treats the EU. It s extra, its there but its not the steak or even the potatos.  And yeah thats a great era of stories for star wars. TOR - clone wars is probably the deepest as far as story telling and characters. I heard some one is working on a clone wars era game like Kotor/tor it has a pretty good look.

2 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

There was a strong rumour that Vader & Anakin as two separate force ghosts would appear to torment Luke. 

I dont like the idea that Snoke is a whole new character.  And if he wasn't, the production wouldnt admit it.  If he's new, that undermines the original 6 part saga.  It spanned, what 30+ years?  And Palpatine's plan was in motion for years prior to that.  So the Sith had this plan for decades, get defeated by the one remaining Jedi but all the while Snoke is chillin', waiting for the Empire to crash and burn before he interjects?  Seems like a terrible plan.

There has long been rumors of Anakin appearing.  In TFA, Kylo speaks to Vader's mask but he says "show me again Grandfather".  That implies he's been shown something previously.  Has Kylo and Anakin been in contact previously?

Its alluded to in the EU several times that some place beyond the chartered universe lies a great source of evil. Post return of the jedi luke even said it was soo great he alone wouldnt stand a chance against it. plageuis vaguely mentioned it as well. Could also have to do with the Ones of mortis. There were fragmented periods under the sith in which other sects could have been set up. Bane manipulated the universe from behind the scenes for years with out any one knowing of his existence. Darth vitiate set up a new sith empire out of the way on dromund kaas,  etc. 

Given the content of vader comics/books in recent years and how it paints him I dont see them splitting him into 2 force ghosts. But they could say a portion of vader was imprinted on the helm from before his turning back in return. Kind of like the mass shadow generator or the thought bomb. So you would have the force ghost of anakin and a splinter of dark side power embedded in vaders helm. It could also be a trick by snoke. Or another dark force. 

5 minutes ago, Atomic said:

I get the general idea but isn't there ~20 years between Episode 6 and Episode 7?  Maybe Snoke gained the bulk of his power in that time, and he was too weak to have any real effect around the time of the original trilogy.

Edited January 13, 2017 by wbbfan

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, Atomic said:

I get the general idea but isn't there ~20 years between Episode 6 and Episode 7?  Maybe Snoke gained the bulk of his power in that time, and he was too weak to have any real effect around the time of the original trilogy.

it was about 30 years.