Canadian Politics

[Mark H.]

53 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Doug Ford doesn't feel his base is dumb enough yet, so he's going to lay off teachers.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/provincial-memo-teacher-cuts-1.5085851

Even though they are averaging 19.8 students per teacher in Ontario.

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/educationfacts.html

[Wideleft]

13 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Even though they are averaging 19.8 students per teacher in Ontario.

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/educationfacts.html

I don't know what the ideal ratio is, but increasing it will likely have detrimental effects.

Correlation between class size and reading performance from the results of the U.S. National Assessment of Educational Progress reading tests given in 2005 to 4th and 8th graders

[Mark H.]

In rural areas you will often have pockets of small classes - 8 to 12 students.  A  19.8 average means there are high numbers in the core areas - 30 to 45 students. Highschool teachers most often bear the brunt of that. 

[Zontar]

The endless battle cry of the socialist.

"But its never been tried."

"So ignore all the economic collapes, the shortages, the breadlines, suppression of personal liberties, the labour camps, one party systems....this time we're gonna get it right."

[Wideleft]

5 minutes ago, Zontar said:

The endless battle cry of the socialist.

"But its never been tried."

"So ignore all the economic collapes, the shortages, the breadlines, suppression of personal liberties, the labour camps, one party systems....this time we're gonna get it right."

All the things you have mentioned (except a one-party system) have happened in the U.S. in the last 100 years.  The one party system has been replaced by an oligarchy, which is about as democratic.

[The Unknown Poster]

I think the alt right like the idea of the rich getting richer because they believe in a dream scenario whereby they get to be one of those rich guys.

[Zontar]

21 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

All the things you have mentioned (except a one-party system) have happened in the U.S. in the last 100 years.  The one party system has been replaced by an oligarchy, which is about as democratic.

Temporary economic depressions in democracies with free market capitalism are not the equivalent of socialism induced miseries which last as long socialists are in power.

[Wideleft]

2 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Temporary economic depressions in democracies with free market capitalism are not the equivalent of socialism induced miseries which last as long socialists are in power.

How long have most poor people in Canada and the U.S. been poor?  

[Zontar]

6 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

How long have most poor people in Canada and the U.S. been poor?  

Which system affords the most effective opportunities to get OUT of poverty. 

Hint, it's not the one with famines and gulags.

[17to85]

The problem with every system is corruption.

[pigseye]

Good lord, Norway has 5 million people and a **** ton of oil.

When you compare the % of government expenditures to GDP, there is no difference between Norway/USA/Canada

Average income tax Norway 27.9%, USA 26%, Canada 23%, again virtually no difference

And Norway is feeling the same wage gap as everyone else in their work force. 

Moral of the story, don't rely on the government to support you, work hard and get ahead just like the hundred of thousands of new immigrants that come here every year and do. 

 

[17to85]

Just boot strap ourselves up eh, as if that works. In our system is is rare to be able to bootstrap ourselves up. Easiest way is to be born into priviledge. Rest ofnusbjust have to be content getting by while the rich horde all the wealth and corporations use their influence to **** us all over. 

I got no problems saying free market should rule, but we're not in a totally free market, the government already messes with the markets. Corporate welfare is a big thing in our country l, why not welfare for everyone?

[SpeedFlex27]

4 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I think the alt right like the idea of the rich getting richer because they believe in a dream scenario whereby they get to be one of those rich guys.

I'm centre right but not alt right.  I'd never march or be a part of that movement. They are a small but vocal & visible minority in the conservative movement. 

[pigseye]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Just boot strap ourselves up eh, as if that works. In our system is is rare to be able to bootstrap ourselves up. Easiest way is to be born into priviledge. Rest ofnusbjust have to be content getting by while the rich horde all the wealth and corporations use their influence to **** us all over. 

I got no problems saying free market should rule, but we're not in a totally free market, the government already messes with the markets. Corporate welfare is a big thing in our country l, why not welfare for everyone?

I can't tell if you are being serious?

1. Social Insurance - Canadians are provided what’s called a “Social Insurance Number” or “SIN” for short when we’re of working age. There’s a plan to get rid of the cards and just keep the number. This number generally identifies you to the Government on any tax forms. This number also gets Canadians access to various Government programs and tax benefits.
2. Employment Insurance - Sometimes called “Unemployment” or “Pogie”, this is paid by payroll employees (and is mandatory). When that person loses their job, they can apply to be paid a percentage of their former wages for a period of time while trying to get another job. This is intended to ease the pain of losing work.
3. Pension - Also paid by the employee, a pension is a payment that provides a stipend to citizens when they reach retirement age.
4. Old Age Security - Not to be confused with the Pension, this is a taxable amount provided to all Citizens that reach retirement age. It’s not enough to live on, but still a safety net for seniors.
5. Welfare - Sometimes called "social assistance" this is a monthly amount provided to those out of work or with no income or in need of income assistance.
6. Disability - A kind of welfare payment for those Citizens that are earning low or no income but cannot work due to disability. You can’t be on Disability and welfare at the same time.

What's missing? Getting paid to sit around on your ass all day?

[The Unknown Poster]

18 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'm centre right but not alt right.  I'd never march or be a part of that movement. They are a small but vocal & visible minority in the conservative movement. 

Not you    They’re obvious. 

[Mark H.]

5 hours ago, Zontar said:

Which system affords the most effective opportunities to get OUT of poverty. 

Hint, it's not the one with famines and gulags.

Citing the most extreme examples - very well done.

Hint: The system that ruled Nazi Germany provided few if any opportunities to get out of poverty.  Well - unless you include to killing (or planning to kill) the people of eastern Europe so Germans could take over their farms.  For reference: lebensraum

When you go the extremes - the right and the left are essentially the same. 

[Zontar]

9 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Citing the most extreme examples - very well done.

Hint: The system that ruled Nazi Germany provided few if any opportunities to get out of poverty.  Well - unless you include to killing (or planning to kill) the people of eastern Europe so Germans could take over their farms.  For reference: lebensraum

When you go the extremes - the right and the left are essentially the same. 

Nazis.

As in Natonal Socialism

As in the National Socialist Workers Party.

It's the second word in the name of their party for pitys sake.

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, pigseye said:

I can't tell if you are being serious?

1. Social Insurance - Canadians are provided what’s called a “Social Insurance Number” or “SIN” for short when we’re of working age. There’s a plan to get rid of the cards and just keep the number. This number generally identifies you to the Government on any tax forms. This number also gets Canadians access to various Government programs and tax benefits.
2. Employment Insurance - Sometimes called “Unemployment” or “Pogie”, this is paid by payroll employees (and is mandatory). When that person loses their job, they can apply to be paid a percentage of their former wages for a period of time while trying to get another job. This is intended to ease the pain of losing work.
3. Pension - Also paid by the employee, a pension is a payment that provides a stipend to citizens when they reach retirement age.
4. Old Age Security - Not to be confused with the Pension, this is a taxable amount provided to all Citizens that reach retirement age. It’s not enough to live on, but still a safety net for seniors.
5. Welfare - Sometimes called "social assistance" this is a monthly amount provided to those out of work or with no income or in need of income assistance.
6. Disability - A kind of welfare payment for those Citizens that are earning low or no income but cannot work due to disability. You can’t be on Disability and welfare at the same time.

What's missing? Getting paid to sit around on your ass all day?

 

2 hours ago, pigseye said:

Good lord, Norway has 5 million people and a **** ton of oil.

When you compare the % of government expenditures to GDP, there is no difference between Norway/USA/Canada

Average income tax Norway 27.9%, USA 26%, Canada 23%, again virtually no difference

And Norway is feeling the same wage gap as everyone else in their work force. 

Moral of the story, don't rely on the government to support you, work hard and get ahead just like the hundred of thousands of new immigrants that come here every year and do. 

If we view your two statements together: "if everyone just worked harder, we wouldn't need any of that."

The developed world has been there, done that - it was called 'The Industrial Revolution.'

Most of the population worked their asses off, and it got most of them absolutely nowhere.  The rich simply got richer on the backs of the poor.

Things are pretty messed up on the political right these days, and some us get the sense that they are working towards more of the above.

Just my 0.02

[Mark H.]

16 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Nazis.

As in Natonal Socialism

As in the National Socialist Workers Party.

It's the second word in the name of their party for pitys sake.

You can pity sake all you like - the far right and far left are the same thing. 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, pigseye said:

I can't tell if you are being serious?

1. Social Insurance - Canadians are provided what’s called a “Social Insurance Number” or “SIN” for short when we’re of working age. There’s a plan to get rid of the cards and just keep the number. This number generally identifies you to the Government on any tax forms. This number also gets Canadians access to various Government programs and tax benefits.
2. Employment Insurance - Sometimes called “Unemployment” or “Pogie”, this is paid by payroll employees (and is mandatory). When that person loses their job, they can apply to be paid a percentage of their former wages for a period of time while trying to get another job. This is intended to ease the pain of losing work.
3. Pension - Also paid by the employee, a pension is a payment that provides a stipend to citizens when they reach retirement age.
4. Old Age Security - Not to be confused with the Pension, this is a taxable amount provided to all Citizens that reach retirement age. It’s not enough to live on, but still a safety net for seniors.
5. Welfare - Sometimes called "social assistance" this is a monthly amount provided to those out of work or with no income or in need of income assistance.
6. Disability - A kind of welfare payment for those Citizens that are earning low or no income but cannot work due to disability. You can’t be on Disability and welfare at the same time.

What's missing? Getting paid to sit around on your ass all day?

Don't be so literal. I'm not talking about the welfare cheques of any sort, I'm talking about the social safety net as a whole. Health care, education, yes the above items, everything that we do for everyone in our society. Also talking about ensuring that people are paid a fair wage for what they do rather than corporations paying people the minimum and collecting all the profits. 

Here's an example: The telecoms in this country. They all built their networks on public money, many of them were crown corporations at one point, now they are all private and make gobs of money charging us outrageous prices for their services. All the risks were socialized, all the profits were privatized. Same thing is going to happen with TransMountain when it gets built. Government bought it, assumed all the risks and will sell it when it's ready to turn a profit. 

 

Mark H. has summed it up as well. Everyone works their asses off in this world, not everyone gets ahead, most people are just trying to keep their heads above water. 

[Zontar]

7 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

You can pity sake all you like - the far right and far left are the same thing. 

Nazis were not far right. They were leftist. The Nazi state permeated every aspect of one's life. Freedom and self worth was not measured by the success and happiness of the individual  but how they well they served the Fatherland and race. In other words. ..the collective...Classic hallmarks of the far left

[Mark H.]

13 minutes ago, Zontar said:

Nazis were not far right. They were leftist. The Nazi state permeated every aspect of one's life. Freedom and self worth was not measured by the success and happiness of the individual  but how they well they served the Fatherland and race. In other words. ..the collective...Classic hallmarks of the far left

One and the same. 

http://www.rndpanthers.com/kenney/civicis10/unitone/4Unit1ChallengeGovernment.pdf

[pigseye]

14 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Don't be so literal. I'm not talking about the welfare cheques of any sort, I'm talking about the social safety net as a whole. Health care, education, yes the above items, everything that we do for everyone in our society. Also talking about ensuring that people are paid a fair wage for what they do rather than corporations paying people the minimum and collecting all the profits. 

Here's an example: The telecoms in this country. They all built their networks on public money, many of them were crown corporations at one point, now they are all private and make gobs of money charging us outrageous prices for their services. All the risks were socialized, all the profits were privatized. Same thing is going to happen with TransMountain when it gets built. Government bought it, assumed all the risks and will sell it when it's ready to turn a profit. 

 

Mark H. has summed it up as well. Everyone works their asses off in this world, not everyone gets ahead, most people are just trying to keep their heads above water. 

Overall average pay levels for comparable occupations between public and private sector employers are very similar. Average annual pay in the public sector was $49,655, 0.5 per cent higher than the private sector average of $49,407.

Pay differences between the public and private sectors are more significant for occupations at the top and bottom of the pay scales.

• Those working in lower paid occupations—such as cleaning, food preparation, clerks—are generally better paid in the public sector than in the private sector.
• Higher paid occupations—such as managers, lawyers and accountants—tend to be paid considerably less in the public sector than in the private sector.

https://cupe.ca/battle-wages-who-gets-paid-more-public-or-private-sector-workers

Even CUPE acknowledges that there is basically no difference anymore in the average pay for comparable occupations?

So where is this great corporate inequality you speak of? 

Minimum wage should not be a career choice for anyone, it's meant for students and part timers. If a minimum wage job is all you aspire to then you have no one to blame but yourself. 

[JCon]

15 hours ago, Mark H. said:

One and the same. 

http://www.rndpanthers.com/kenney/civicis10/unitone/4Unit1ChallengeGovernment.pdf

I love how the alt-right try to paint Nazis as "leftists". What a efing world we live in now. 

[Zontar]

Pay isnt the ultimate measure though. Massive difference in entitlements , incentives, perks , job security in public vs private sector. Public sector unions fight like grim death verses any claw backs. ..private sector ? oh well, rotten luck, learn to code etc.