Canadian Politics

[17to85]

You can invest in renewables AND make some money off of our fossil fuel resources at the same time. The world isn't using any less oil and it won't in the foreseeable future, all we are doing it letting other countries profit from it rather than profiting ourselves. IN addition to that oil and gas companies, aka ENERGY companies are fleeing this country so their investment in renewables is leaving the country yet again leaving us in the dust. 

An economy still needs primary industries, if not oil and gas and energy then what pray tell shall we make money off of? 

[kelownabomberfan]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

You can invest in renewables AND make some money off of our fossil fuel resources at the same time. The world isn't using any less oil and it won't in the foreseeable future, all we are doing it letting other countries profit from it rather than profiting ourselves. IN addition to that oil and gas companies, aka ENERGY companies are fleeing this country so their investment in renewables is leaving the country yet again leaving us in the dust. 

An economy still needs primary industries, if not oil and gas and energy then what pray tell shall we make money off of? 

100% agree.  Well said.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

54 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

You can invest in renewables AND make some money off of our fossil fuel resources at the same time. The world isn't using any less oil and it won't in the foreseeable future, all we are doing it letting other countries profit from it rather than profiting ourselves. IN addition to that oil and gas companies, aka ENERGY companies are fleeing this country so their investment in renewables is leaving the country yet again leaving us in the dust. 

An economy still needs primary industries, if not oil and gas and energy then what pray tell shall we make money off of? 

I absolutely agree with you- I never advocated to just stop. I think we need to shift over to renewables- gradually to balance the economy.

The world may not be using less oil- but purely from an economic point... the tar sands are too costly to extract versus sweet light crude- the Alberta sands didn't really take off until oil hit ~$75 a barrel, very profitable at that point. At $35 a barrel..  no, we saw what happened to the tar sands when the bottom of oil fell out- and all that took was OPEC to say "Hey, let's ramp up production" and Boom- oil prices crater and a huge chunk of the oil companies went belly up... tar sands was one of the first ones to crater along with the price.

Tar sands is not sustainable- from a completely economic perspective. No mention of the moral argument side of things- just from a $$$ perspective.

 

Energy companies are fleeing- mainly because what I wrote above. What can we do? Shift to renewables and give them the tax breaks, incentives- everything that the oil companies were getting and more. Entice the companies through those avenues.

 

Tar sands are on the way out- we should be prepared before we get stuck with the bill.

[17to85]

I would suggest you don't know enough about the oil sands to be honest. Projects have long lead up times, they were already invested in, we could be selling what is produced. In addition to that a lot of stuff there now isn't even mined, there is lots of SAGD which is much cheaper. Bottom line they can still make money with low prices, but there needs to be market access. In addition, there is more to Alberta than JUST oil sands. I have never worked in the oil sands for example. There's lots of oil and gas to be done here otherwise that no one is investing in. 

So like I said, pipelines are about selling our product to markets that would buy it if they had access to it. As it stands now our only market access is to the US who are hell bent on sucking every drop of their own oil out of the ground.

[17to85]

Really the problem isn't the price of oil, you can make money on the current price of oil even with the discount we sell at, the problem is that no one is interested in investing money in Canada because you never know if the government is going to sit by and let your projects die in court. That's the only reason the Liberals bought the damned TransMountain pipeline, because if they didn't there would have been even less of a climate to entice people to invest in our country. It's not just an Alberta thing either, the only people who want to invest in Canada right now are money laundering Chinese buying up real estate. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

I would suggest you don't know enough about the oil sands to be honest. Projects have long lead up times, they were already invested in, we could be selling what is produced. In addition to that a lot of stuff there now isn't even mined, there is lots of SAGD which is much cheaper. Bottom line they can still make money with low prices, but there needs to be market access. In addition, there is more to Alberta than JUST oil sands. I have never worked in the oil sands for example. There's lots of oil and gas to be done here otherwise that no one is investing in. 

So like I said, pipelines are about selling our product to markets that would buy it if they had access to it. As it stands now our only market access is to the US who are hell bent on sucking every drop of their own oil out of the ground.

You are absolutely right- I don't know a tonne about the oil sands. I know enough to have am opinion though- one that I am willing to change.

Thank you for sharing your nuanced position- it is appreciated.

[kelownabomberfan]

hear hear!!!  Shame on you Amnesty International!  You are no better than the evil Tides Foundation!!!

Quote

 

Government communication is mostly a contradiction in terms. Leaders have abandoned anything like straight declarations of their opinions or their policies. They hose their replies to questions with torrents of ambiguity. When not deliberately ambiguous and slippery in reply, they adopt an even more callous manner when faced with questions they cannot furnish with glib reply.

The other recourse for political speech is to set underlings and aides, honed to literary numbness in the best communication studies, to work crafting documents of such monumental dullness and euphemism, pocked with acronyms and gobbledygook, that they are unintelligible to the human mind, an insult to the English language, and otherwise verbally depraved.

Most leaders, and most ministers, avail themselves of these cowardly arts. As we have multiplied the means of communication we have vastly diminished the purpose of communicating; to say what is meant, to be direct in reply, to respect inquiry by meaningful response.

However — and alert readers will have scented this three paragraphs back — a light flickers; out of this Stygian pit of dead English and greasy equivocation comes a singular government communication — a letter from a leader — that says what it means, says it with clarity and force, and even — this may be unlawful in political communications — has some fun in doing so.

I refer to Jason Kenney’s recent reply to a certain confused and apparently under-worked nuisance at Amnesty International Canada. Said nuisance raised the fraught charge that the Alberta government, in setting up a fund to research the voluminous alarms, thunderbolts, lies and slanders that have for three decades now been hurled upon the workers and industry of Canada’s oilsands by huffy NGOs, various self-declared environmentalists and busybodies of the global warming establishment, is violating “human rights.” (The Post has already published Mr. Kenney’s letter and linked to that of A.I.)

Among the many moments of blind amusement in Amnesty International’s cri de’coeur, my favourite is this treasure. It keens that Mr. Kenney’s move will “… cast an incredible chill amongst environmental groups and others in the province …” Well, I should certainly hope so.

First, because that is what it is expressly intended to do, i.e., halt the flood of reckless and unsubstantiated alarmism and obstruction that has hobbled or halted every major initiative in the Alberta oilsands since the dinosaurs did a harakiri or were buried under comet spray.

Second — and this is an “I hope we’re on the same page here” remark — isn’t the production of an “incredible chill” the very goal and ambition of all fervid Save-The-Planeters?

I say well done Mr. Kenney — your statesmanship here is even more effective than a carbon tax.

Now to the letter. It’s fun to read. The poor Amnesty stooges who talk of human rights in Alberta — excluding the possible human right to the dignity of a real job — are generously, and accurately knocked by comparison with their putatively more laboured peers dealing with such Edens of human rights as Saudi Arabia, poor, socialist, tottering, toilet-paper-short Venezuela, Iran of the holiday camp jails, and ever welcoming (ask Greenpeace) Russia.

Here’s Jason Kenney spending real money to cool down some of the most overheated elements in society

A.I. in those countries may actually have a purpose. But back in smiling, apologetic Canada the best they can attend to are “triggered” social justice warriors of the Sierra Club, Greenpeace, and the David Suzuki Foundation.

Headlines please: “Interns at the World Wildlife Fund are feeling a chill in Alberta hell. Summon the security council. Text the Hague Court. Amnesty worried that for climate activists who want to set up house on a tree branch, or chain themselves to a bulldozer to protest oilsands, Alberta is North Korea with pickups and chinooks.”

As Mr. Conrad, or was it Marlon Brando, so prophetically put it: “The horror! The horror!”

Minor diversion: Where is Canada’s Amnesty during the very real human rights crisis in Toronto? The deep-fried chicken terror. Witnesses horror-struck. One traumatized spectator unveiled the full savagery of the thing when he noted, in a Toronto Star column (italics his): “People are not just going to Chick-fil-A to eat fried chicken. They’re eating fried chicken spitefully.” Terror via mastication. If Amnesty Canada is really looking for a cause, head to Bloor and Yonge in Toronto.

I have not space to cite Mr. Kenney’s billet-doux further. It is, as said, available. And I suggest you tear yourself away from all the wonderful panels and Twitter-bots on the mesmerizing ¾ leaders debate, prime the coffee pot, and enjoy a chuckle and a well-delivered (metaphorical, of course) smack to the side of the head.

A communication from a government that says what it means and means what it says. It is a miracle in our time.

 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-chillin-with-jason-kenneys-miraculous-letter

[kelownabomberfan]

19 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

You are absolutely right- I don't know a tonne about the oil sands. I know enough to have am opinion though- one that I am willing to change.

Thank you for sharing your nuanced position- it is appreciated.

and I'm not sure why the oil sands are even mentioned.  I spent two summers on oil rigs in Canada.  We were drilling for good quality Canadian oil, no where near the oil sands.  Trying to tie pipelines to oil sands is just as disingenuous as beaking on about the man-made climate change hypothesis and pipelines.  It's dishonest.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

45 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

and I'm not sure why the oil sands are even mentioned.  I spent two summers on oil rigs in Canada.  We were drilling for good quality Canadian oil, no where near the oil sands.  Trying to tie pipelines to oil sands is just as disingenuous as beaking on about the man-made climate change hypothesis and pipelines.  It's dishonest.

Oh, you're a roughneck. What year were you on rigs?

[kelownabomberfan]

19 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Oh, you're a roughneck. What year were you on rigs?

1990 and 1991

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

32 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

1990 and 1991

Same time that we last won a Grey Cup... You need to go back. lol

I want to see us win another one before I die.

[Mark H.]

9 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Same time that we last won a Grey Cup... You need to go back. lol

I want to see us win another one before I die.

We’ve unearthed the root of the problem...

[tacklewasher]

11 hours ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Same time that we last won a Grey Cup... You need to go back. lol

I want to see us win another one before I die.

 

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

We’ve unearthed the root of the problem...

So it's not me getting married that killed it. It's KBF not working the rigs

And the thought of this made me laugh big time. We drink together. He ain't going back to the rigs.🤣

 

[17to85]

He couldn't go back if he wanted ! Have you looked at the rig counts lately?

[Mark H.]

42 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

He couldn't go back if he wanted ! Have you looked at the rig counts lately?

Yeah, even certified drillers with significant seniority are laid off. 

[Mark H.]

1. Scheer: 6 billion in tax cuts - recycle some Harper pledges

2. Trudeau: focus primarily on avoiding the media 

3. Singh: need more Quebec seats

4. May: promise the Moon and throw in Venus for good measure. 

The excitement - is mind numbing. 

 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

19 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

1. Scheer: 6 billion in tax cuts - recycle some Harper pledges

2. Trudeau: focus primarily on avoiding the media 

3. Singh: need more Quebec seats

4. May: promise the Moon and throw in Venus for good measure. 

The excitement - is mind numbing. 

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/5908621/maxime-bernier-federal-leaders-debate/

So who is Maxime gonna take shots at?

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by FrostyWinnipeg

[17to85]

This is the most uninspiring and uninteresting election I think I have ever seen. No one seems to be offering anything of substance, just a bunch of self serving empty suits. 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

This is the most uninspiring and uninteresting election I think I have ever seen. No one seems to be offering anything of substance, just a bunch of self serving empty suits. 

I pity the party rep that gets to my door when I'm home. I have an earful for all of them,. 

The PPC were lucky that I wasn't home. They would have received the worst of it. 

[17to85]

18 minutes ago, JCon said:

I pity the party rep that gets to my door when I'm home. I have an earful for all of them,. 

The PPC were lucky that I wasn't home. They would have received the worst of it. 

lucky you getting people actually having to campaign. 

The Conservatives can run any loser in my riding and win and everyone knows it. I had hopes for the guy last election but turns out he's just another little social conservative do nothing weenie. Won't give him my vote even though it doesn't matter. Probably going to have to end up spoiling my ballot. 

[JCon]

Just now, 17to85 said:

lucky you getting people actually having to campaign. 

The Conservatives can run any loser in my riding and win and everyone knows it. I had hopes for the guy last election but turns out he's just another little social conservative do nothing weenie. Won't give him my vote even though it doesn't matter. Probably going to have to end up spoiling my ballot. 

My former MP, a Conservative, lives a few houses down from me. He only left politics before the last election. It was always interesting to see his next door neighbour put up Liberal signs. 

My riding bounces back and forth between Liberal and Conservative, so they have to put some leg work in. It's mostly volunteers that come to my door. 

I think I need to spoil my ballot this time. I might write-in Kodos. 

[voodoochylde]

[tacklewasher]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

lucky you getting people actually having to campaign. 

The Conservatives can run any loser in my riding and win and everyone knows it. I had hopes for the guy last election but turns out he's just another little social conservative do nothing weenie. Won't give him my vote even though it doesn't matter. Probably going to have to end up spoiling my ballot. 

Thought that last election. I think the MP thought it as well. We got a Liberal instead.

You do know that spoiled ballots no longer get counted. I wish they did.

Actually, I wish there was a "none of the above" option just so they would count the dis-enchanted.

 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, tacklewasher said:

Thought that last election. I think the MP thought it as well. We got a Liberal instead.

You do know that spoiled ballots no longer get counted. I wish they did.

Actually, I wish there was a "none of the above" option just so they would count the dis-enchanted.

 

They don't track spoiled ballots any longer? I missed this. Is this just at the federal level? 

[tacklewasher]

11 minutes ago, JCon said:

They don't track spoiled ballots any longer? I missed this. Is this just at the federal level? 

My google-fu is weak, but I remember it was something that changed when Harper was around. They just get lumped in with some uncounted category now. Not even sure they give out the numbers anymore.

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

Looked at the results for my riding from 2015.

https://www.elections.ca/res/rep/off/ovr2015app/41/9798e.html

One column for rejected. No split between mistakes and purposely spoiled.

Edited September 17, 2019 by tacklewasher