Canadian Politics

[Zontar]

Just now, Wideleft said:

Less and less fetters every day.

If you mean crony capitalism then we can agree.

[Wideleft]

10 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

My point was that Trudeau hasn't stepped down yet, nor has he faced the level of scrutiny and criticism that a politician on the right would face for any of the actions I mentioned, let alone getting away with all of them. I never said anything about freedom of expression but thanks for bringing that up.

Again, the way he governs is contrary to the idea that he's an actual racist.  Him being an empty vessel is a whole different discussion.

[rebusrankin]

5 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Again, the way he governs is contrary to the idea that he's an actual racist.  Him being an empty vessel is a whole different discussion.

Did I call him a racist? Nope. Did I call him sexist? Nope. I simply mentioned my belief that a politician on the right would have received more criticism, media scrutiny and would have been more likely to have been forced to resign for any of the actions of JT's that I mentioned and he's basically done all four that I mentioned. Now on him being an empty vessel, totally agree.

[rebusrankin]

11 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The CPC won't run against Chretien or Martin's legacy because then they'd have to complain about budget surpluses

How about mentioning them cutting over $20 billion from Canada Health and Social Transfer which is what led to the cuts in education and healthcare that every province faced in the mid to late 1990s? How about them taking EI surpluses and uses them to fund other government projects (not legal btw). Now I'll stress that they did what was absolutely necessary at the time but people tend to mention the eventual surpluses and tend to forget how they accomplished them.

[Zontar]

We already knew what a buffoon and narcissist he is from the India mission. To me the real heart of the story is the 5Ws surrounding the leak and how inept the LP is .

[kelownabomberfan]

19 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The CPC won't run against Chretien or Martin's legacy because then they'd have to complain about budget surpluses

Martin's for sure.  Chretien had his own issues.  A proof is a proof...

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Way to miss the point. Your previous comment re: Holodomor was way off, so you respond to being corrected by posing a question, deflecting from you mistake. Makes sense... I can see history is your strong suit. But sure, I'll answer your dumb question: Mikhail Gorbachev.

Keep digging that hole, though. It's entertaining.

Gorbachev? And you say I'm dumb? Carry on.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

First of all, Holodomor took place in the early 1930s. And it was a calculated move carried out by the Soviet Union under Stalin to combat an attempted independence movement in Ukraine at the time. It had far less do with communism itself and much more to do with Joseph Stalin being a power hungry, genocidal, totalitarian ideologue.

I highly doubt the ancestors of those affected would feel inclined to split hairs over political ideology when it comes to discussing that genocide.

Oh, the 30's?? Sorry your highness. It had everything to do with communism because he was Head of the Soviet Communist Party.

[SpeedFlex27]

2 hours ago, pigseye said:

He was so nice he decided Russia should become a Democracy. 😉

Until Putin arrived. Took him a few years to show his true colours.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, rebusrankin said:

Did I call him a racist? Nope. Did I call him sexist? Nope. I simply mentioned my belief that a politician on the right would have received more criticism, media scrutiny and would have been more likely to have been forced to resign for any of the actions of JT's that I mentioned and he's basically done all four that I mentioned. Now on him being an empty vessel, totally agree.

If Scheer had done black face the Liberals would have roasted him alive & calling him a racist. I love the fact that Trudeau is finally being exposed as a hypocritical virtue signaller. A Do What I Say Not What I Do politician.

[The Unknown Poster]

I’ve seen interesting responses.  A lot of liberals seem to be either saying yeah but Scheer or downplaying the act as dumb but not racist. 

Conservatives are saying he’s a lousy role model and terrible leader and needs to go. And is a racist   

And I’m struck by how both sides are pretty entrenched.  

Reading his comments, he’s definitely throwing himself on his sword but still kinda seems disingenuous and pretentious. 

Scheer sucks too.  I mean our choices are an arrogant air head who did racist things or a creepy far right guy with a history of homophobic positions.  

Is it too much to ask for a respectable Center leader? 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, pigseye said:

I like Singh and May as leaders but will never vote for either, they're platforms are unrealistic and beyond affordable, they would do so much harm to the economic foundations of this country that we would never recover (think Ontario under Wynne x 1000). I only vote Liberal when there is a competent PM and cabinet, unlike this current version. I know some people are drawn to the whole diversity thing but that should never be the basis of building a management group for 2 trillion dollars of public assets. So I am left with the safe choice, the Conservatives, even though I agree with many who think Sheer is a weenie, they will at least be the best stewards of our public funds while at the same making life more affordable for everyone. I'm not scared away by all the ridiculous notions that they are somehow going to take all your human rights away, this is just a common scare tactic the left has to use because they can't compete on an economic level with them. 

I appreciate your answer as I didn't have a sense of where you stood. Thanks.

[The Unknown Poster]

9 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If Scheer had done black face the Liberals would have roasted him alive & calling him a racist. I love the fact that Trudeau is finally being exposed as a hypocritical virtue signaller. A Do What I Say Not What I Do politician.

For sure. But they both are. 

[SpeedFlex27]

12 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I’ve seen interesting responses.  A lot of liberals seem to be either saying yeah but Scheer or downplaying the act as dumb but not racist. 

Conservatives are saying he’s a lousy role model and terrible leader and needs to go. And is a racist   

And I’m struck by how both sides are pretty entrenched.  

Reading his comments, he’s definitely throwing himself on his sword but still kinda seems disingenuous and pretentious. 

Scheer sucks too.  I mean our choices are an arrogant air head who did racist things or a creepy far right guy with a history of homophobic positions.  

Is it too much to ask for a respectable Center leader? 

If the Conservatives had a leader who wasn't hung up on LGBTQ rights or same sex marriage they'd clean up. Why they had to choose an unknown social conservative to lead the party into the election is beyond me. I'm glad Mad Max didn't win but Scheer could have done a lot more than he has done in bringing his politics more center right than staying a social conservative. I think most Canadians could care less if someone is gay or if they want to marry. Or concerned about LGBTQ rights. They should have the same rights as anybody else. What people do with their lives should be up to them as long as they don't bother anybody else.

Edited September 19, 2019 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

6 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

For sure. But they both are. 

One now far worse than the other.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

you are confusing the principles of communism with the flawed implementation of it. 

I think they go hand in hand. The problem with communism is if you have a dictator like Stalin the longer he is in power, the more powerful & entrenched he becomes. In a true democracy, he can be voted out.

[17to85]

10 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I think they go hand in hand. The problem with communism is if you have a dictator like Stalin the longer he is in power, the more powerful & entrenched he becomes. In a true democracy, he can be voted out.

But how is that any different from all those "republics" that have dictators? The idea of every form of government is often times very different from the implementation of it. It's as I said every form of government is neither good or bad, that is determined by the people in charge.

[SpeedFlex27]

11 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

But how is that any different from all those "republics" that have dictators? The idea of every form of government is often times very different from the implementation of it. It's as I said every form of government is neither good or bad, that is determined by the people in charge.

However, we're talking about communism. The Third Reich & Hitler's reign as a Republic for example,  was worse than Stalin's leading up to WW2. Stalin then used the outcome of the war to flex his muscles & took in all those Eastern Euro countries under his umbrella.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

If the Conservatives had a leader who wasn't hung up on LGBTQ rights or same sex marriage they'd clean up. Why they had to choose an unknown social conservative to lead the party into the election is beyond me. I'm glad Mad Max didn't win but Scheer could have done a lot more than he has done in bringing his politics more center right than staying a social conservative. I think most Canadians could care less if someone is gay or if they want to marry. Or concerned about LGBTQ rights. They should have the same rights as anybody else. What people do with their lives should be up to them as long as they don't bother anybody else.

They sure miss Stephen Harper. 

Again imagine if we had a leader that was genuine and intelligent and well spoken. But was also a center party?  That didn’t court the worst of the far right or left?  Wouldn’t that person be incredibly popular?  

Jagmeet wins points in this mess for being the only one who seems genuine.  And I think the NdP will gain some votes but obviously not enough to matter. 

Scheer should have let Max take all the gross cons and went after disaffected liberals. 

[SpeedFlex27]

39 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

They sure miss Stephen Harper. 

Again imagine if we had a leader that was genuine and intelligent and well spoken. But was also a center party?  That didn’t court the worst of the far right or left?  Wouldn’t that person be incredibly popular?  

Jagmeet wins points in this mess for being the only one who seems genuine.  And I think the NdP will gain some votes but obviously not enough to matter. 

Scheer should have let Max take all the gross cons and went after disaffected liberals. 

Just like the Democrats in the States. If they had a moderate leader who cares about jobs & talks a language most people relate to without getting into the planet is dying stuff or The Green New Deal then Trump would get turfed. But like the Conservatives in Canada who can't find a leader in the center political perspective neither can the Democrats find that leader to cover the middle ground. The one who benefits is Trudeau up here & Trump in the US.

[JCon]

6 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Just like the Democrats in the States. If they had a moderate leader who cares about jobs & talks a language most people relate to without getting into the planet is dying stuff or The Green New Deal then Trump would get turfed. But like the Conservatives in Canada who can't find a leader in the center political perspective neither can the Democrats find that leader to cover the middle ground. The one who benefits is Trudeau up here & Trump in the US.

Funny, because all the Dem leaders are right of centre except Bernie. And, even Bernie, still has a lot of right-of-centre policies. 

I mean, Kamala Harris is a pro-police, pro-three strike, former AG of Cali, who fought hard to keep people locked up. 

The new Green Deal barely keeps the US up with the rest of the western world on energy production. They're so far behind, that they have a president who thinks when the wind doesn't blow TV will shut off with wind power. 

There is not a single policy that the dems have put forward that is left of anyone in the developed first world. 

[The Unknown Poster]

3 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Just like the Democrats in the States. If they had a moderate leader who cares about jobs & talks a language most people relate to without getting into the planet is dying stuff or The Green New Deal then Trump would get turfed. But like the Conservatives in Canada who can't find a leader in the center political perspective neither can the Democrats find that leader to cover the middle ground. The one who benefits is Trudeau up here & Trump in the US.

Oh I don’t know about that.  I think the Dems are doing a great job of communicating effectively with the public.  I think there has been a large awakening among the public to turn towards the left.  Partially as a response to the hard right of the Republicans. 

I think similarly in Canada there has been an effort by the right to encompass those that might otherwise have been ignored because they were too far right. I think JT opened the Center up really well for a smart, well spoken Center-Right conservative to reject the gross elements of the alt movement and push a populist agenda.   I think a lot of Canadians saw JT as that because he’s handsome and young but he could be beat at his own game. But that’s not Scheer. 

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

Funny, because all the Dem leaders are right of centre except Bernie. And, even Bernie, still has a lot of right-of-centre policies. 

I mean, Kamala Harris is a pro-police, pro-three strike, former AG of Cali, who fought hard to keep people locked up. 

The new Green Deal barely keeps the US up with the rest of the western world on energy production. They're so far behind, that they have a president who thinks when the wind doesn't blow TV will shut off with wind power. 

There is not a single policy that the dems have put forward that is left of anyone in the developed first world. 

Excellent points.   I sometimes find myself hesitating when talking politics at work because my union workplace sees a Canadian Conservative and equates it to Trump. But the things our conservative leaders accept as inherently Canadian rights & values are some things The US Democrat’s are fighting for.  

[Mark H.]

44 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I sometimes find myself hesitating when talking politics at work because my union workplace sees a Canadian Conservative and equates it to Trump. 

That kind of rhetoric can be very frustrating.  People literally live in unfounded fear of right wing politics.

Eg. people believe Palister could/would take away their maternity leave.  No he can't - it's protected by the Labour Relations Act.

The more I talk to most people about politics, the better I understand why fear - mongering works as well as it does.

[17to85]

43 minutes ago, JCon said:

Funny, because all the Dem leaders are right of centre except Bernie. And, even Bernie, still has a lot of right-of-centre policies. 

I mean, Kamala Harris is a pro-police, pro-three strike, former AG of Cali, who fought hard to keep people locked up. 

The new Green Deal barely keeps the US up with the rest of the western world on energy production. They're so far behind, that they have a president who thinks when the wind doesn't blow TV will shut off with wind power. 

There is not a single policy that the dems have put forward that is left of anyone in the developed first world. 

That's just it, the middle between the Democrats and the Republicans is pretty far right compared to most of the world. What they Democrats badly need is to stop trying to appease the far right and get a real left boundary pusher in there to swing things back towards where the rest of the world is going.