Canadian Politics

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, JCon said:

The thing is Trudeau can use Bloc or NDP whenever he wants, he doesn't need both. We won't lose confidence in the House but he may not get everything through that he wants. 

Trudeau has not learned anything from his first term. And, he won't. But, his ministry will probably feel more empowered and we may seem some other leaders emerge. 

The last time we had a Liberal minority, we were this close to having Universal Child Care.  Layton screwed up and ended up being the kingmaker for Harper.  I don't think the NDP will make that mistake again.  I am cautiously optimistic that this new government will be more progressive in a meaningful way.

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The last time we had a Liberal minority, we were this close to having Universal Child Care.  Layton screwed up and ended up being the kingmaker for Harper.  I don't think the NDP will make that mistake again.  I am cautiously optimistic that this new government will be more progressive in a meaningful way.

Yeah, but Singh is weakened. Despite all the platitudes about how well he was doing, he lost support. The NDP are in a weak state. I don't see any big agendas that they can push. They actually need the Liberals more than the Libs need them. 

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, JCon said:

Yeah, but Singh is weakened. Despite all the platitudes about how well he was doing, he lost support. The NDP are in a weak state. I don't see any big agendas that they can push. They actually need the Liberals more than the Libs need them. 

The NDP has less seats, but now have more power.  Off the top of my head, the Liberals/NDP/Greens/BQ could improve a climate change/environmental agenda, Pharmacare, Universal Child Care and reduce student debt.  The opportunity is there to show how far out of touch the hard right agenda is.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Wideleft

[JCon]

Just now, Wideleft said:

The NDP has less seats, but now have more power.  Off the top of my head, the Liberals/NDP/Greens/BQ could bolster a climate change/environmental agenda, Pharmacare, Universal Child Care and student debt.  The opportunity is there to show how far out of touch the hard right agenda is.

You're wrong about the NDP. They cannot run another election, so they'll have to prop up this gov't even when they don't want to. They are weak. 

I think the Liberals will be satisfied with their climate change plan from their first term and doubt we'll see much beyond planting trees. The other area we'll probably see investment is in green science and some infrastructure. 

I doubt we'll see much on Pharmacare. 

UCC is dead right now.

And, they won't bail out the Province's on student debt, which is likely to rise with all the cuts we're seeing to post-secondary education. 

[JCon]

Side note, nice to see Robert-Falcon Ouellette lose. What a disappointing politician he's been. Remember when people were excited about his mayoral run? That seems like a lifetime ago. 

[Wideleft]

27 minutes ago, JCon said:

You're wrong about the NDP. They cannot run another election, so they'll have to prop up this gov't even when they don't want to. They are weak. 

I think the Liberals will be satisfied with their climate change plan from their first term and doubt we'll see much beyond planting trees. The other area we'll probably see investment is in green science and some infrastructure. 

I doubt we'll see much on Pharmacare. 

UCC is dead right now.

And, they won't bail out the Province's on student debt, which is likely to rise with all the cuts we're seeing to post-secondary education. 

The NDP and the Liberals have more in common every year as the Liberals move left.  I hope you're wrong, but I can't say that you are.

[pigseye]

Libs won 80 seats in Ontario (81 last election), the rest of the country didn't even matter at that point. That's how it goes. 

[JCon]

Some reflections from last night, cause I'm into this stuff... 

The Marijuana Party still exists. I'm not sure why? 

Both Max Berniers lost. I hope we don't see much from the PPC again. They got served last night. I can't believe how much air time they got throughout the campaign. Yuck. 

Steven Fletcher. What a miserable SOB who has no interest in governing, just settling scores. Good riddance. 

The Greens are currently dead. With climate change moving to the middle, I don't really see where they fit into the landscape? They're too "out there" on some issues with some truly wacky candidates. May needs to move on. If you're Green and you can't ride the climate change wave, what are you doing? 

Singh was by far the most impressive during the campaign but that meant very little in votes and less in seats. I have to wonder what will happen to Singh now? There was a time when people thought the world of May but she never translated that into actual wins - is Singh going to suffer the same fate? 

Raitt/Goodale. We lost two great parliamentarians. The voters spoke. 

Where is Rona? The CPC would be forming government if she were the leader. 

Bergen re-elected? That's a surprise! Just kidding. 

JWR - good for her. I wish she were still in gov't and the PM were not. 

Philpot. It's too bad she couldn't hold onto her seat. She could have added another voice of reason. 

Butts gets another term as PM. 

The Bloc is back. 

Ashton holds her seat. That family lives off the gov't teat. 

[JCon]

24 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Libs won 80 seats in Ontario (81 last election), the rest of the country didn't even matter at that point. That's how it goes. 

This makes no sense (as usual). Poor me attitude, whine. 

80 seats represents around half of their overall seat count. They took two-thirds of the largest province that represents more than a third of the overall seat count in parliament. Ontario will always play a huge role in how this country is governed. 

Just watch the Rebel's coverage in reverse. You'll see a mixed bag from BC, then blue across Alberta and Saskatchewan, mixed in Manitoba, primarily red in Ontario and then red/light blue in Quebec, followed by mostly red in Atlantic provinces. Feel better? 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Side note, nice to see Robert-Falcon Ouellette lose. What a disappointing politician he's been. Remember when people were excited about his mayoral run? That seems like a lifetime ago. 

I never liked him... he just always seemed... opportunistic. 

The one dude who I will miss though is Ralph Goodale.

Edited October 22, 2019 by wanna-b-fanboy

[sweep the leg]

Ruth Ellen Brosseau lost to the Bloc candidate. That's too bad. Her candidacy was a bit of a joke in 2011, but she made the most of her opportunity and from most accounts was doing a good job. I'm always a sucker for single mom stories...

[blue_gold_84]

11 hours ago, Rich said:

She may not have held the position for long, but I do believe that distinction goes to Kim Campbell.

You're right. I should've been clearer initially. Sorry. What I should've said is the first female PM elected under normal* circumstances who didn't lose her seat and position after a federal election six months after the fact.

* normal in that it doesn't involve a PM retiring

2 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

I agree on Ambrose and on Sheer and the 2017 CPC race. Conservatives need to pick a female leader.

That or just anyone with some substance. The 2017 CPC leadership election was embarrassing and I'm not sure if the party has recovered from it. I have no doubt the party would be much stronger with someone like Ambrose at the helm.

2 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

I agree. I don't know a lot about her, but I liked what I heard while she was in charge for that brief time.

The fact she was selected by Trudeau as a member of the NAFTA Advisory Council two years ago speaks volumes to her knowledge, experience, and quality as a political figure.

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Some reflections from last night, cause I'm into this stuff... 

The Marijuana Party still exists. I'm not sure why? 

Both Max Berniers lost. I hope we don't see much from the PPC again. They got served last night. I can't believe how much air time they got throughout the campaign. Yuck. 

Steven Fletcher. What a miserable SOB who has no interest in governing, just settling scores. Good riddance. 

The Greens are currently dead. With climate change moving to the middle, I don't really see where they fit into the landscape? They're too "out there" on some issues with some truly wacky candidates. May needs to move on. If you're Green and you can't ride the climate change wave, what are you doing? 

Singh was by far the most impressive during the campaign but that meant very little in votes and less in seats. I have to wonder what will happen to Singh now? There was a time when people thought the world of May but she never translated that into actual wins - is Singh going to suffer the same fate? 

Raitt/Goodale. We lost two great parliamentarians. The voters spoke. 

Where is Rona? The CPC would be forming government if she were the leader. 

Bergen re-elected? That's a surprise! Just kidding. 

JWR - good for her. I wish she were still in gov't and the PM were not. 

Philpot. It's too bad she couldn't hold onto her seat. She could have added another voice of reason. 

Butts gets another term as PM. 

The Bloc is back. 

Ashton holds her seat. That family lives off the gov't teat. 

Well said, the bolded parts in particular. Lots of big changes happened last night. Here's hoping they'll get back to work for the benefit of this country and its people, and put the petty differences and BS aside.

Now the burning question: does Scheer step down? 

[pigseye]

50 minutes ago, JCon said:

This makes no sense (as usual). Poor me attitude, whine

I wasn't whining, Ontario stayed status quo, after that there was no point in watching the rest of the coverage as the outcome had already been determined, pretty anticlimactic considering all the build up to the election. I voted Liberal (Dr Doug) he lost but at least Marantz is a decent replacement. Unlike Alberta & Sask, I see the benefit of at least having an MP on the winning team in Ottawa. You need to stop making assumptions over the internet, it just makes you look petty.  

[Bigblue204]

53 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I never liked him... he just always seemed... opportunistic. 

The one dude who I will miss though is Ralph Goodale.

I liked him when he was running for mayor and I thought it was a major mistake on his part to jump to federal politics. 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Now the burning question: does Scheer step down? 

I don't he will. He won the "popular" vote (Hilary says, "hi") and I think he'll survive the next leadership review in a year. I think the CPC should be very disappointed in the outcome but can look at their own failed strategies during the election. 

Sheer needs to grow, he needs to mature. And, presumably, he can do that. 

[Bigblue204]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

I don't he will. He won the "popular" vote (Hilary says, "hi") and I think he'll survive the next leadership review in a year. I think the CPC should be very disappointed in the outcome but can look at their own failed strategies during the election. 

Sheer needs to grow, he needs to mature. And, presumably, he can do that. 

I'm not sure he can. He's essentially been the same almost his entire political career. And even though I'm not entirely sure why, and maybe even a bit of hypocrite about it. I really don't like the fact he holds two citizenship's. At the end of the day, I think it was the lack of discussing his platform and the benefits of voting for the CPC that did him in. Was always why we shouldn't vote for others.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

The NDP and the Liberals have more in common every year as the Liberals move left.  I hope you're wrong, but I can't say that you are.

and the conservatives and liberals have a lot of common ground too. That's the problem, some people equate NDP and Liberal like they're the same thing. They aren't, especially on matters of businesses. That's where the Conservatives and Liberals have a lot of common ground. 

But it's also dangerous to write off the conservatives as simply a hard right agenda. There are a lot of progressive people, especially out west who vote conservative because they feel ignored and betrayed by Liberal governments. It is perilous for the country for these people to be ignored. 

Things are very divided regionally in this country again and that's not a good thing. Time to stop the divisiveness from all parties and start working for the country as a whole, and yes that does include maintaining some semblance of an oil and gas industry like it or not.  

[Wideleft]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

and the conservatives and liberals have a lot of common ground too. That's the problem, some people equate NDP and Liberal like they're the same thing. They aren't, especially on matters of businesses. That's where the Conservatives and Liberals have a lot of common ground. 

But it's also dangerous to write off the conservatives as simply a hard right agenda. There are a lot of progressive people, especially out west who vote conservative because they feel ignored and betrayed by Liberal governments. It is perilous for the country for these people to be ignored. 

Things are very divided regionally in this country again and that's not a good thing. Time to stop the divisiveness from all parties and start working for the country as a whole, and yes that does include maintaining some semblance of an oil and gas industry like it or not.  

The challenge for the Conservatives is that they don't give the moderates in the party a voice.  It was pointed out that last night that Scheer never allowed himself to be seen with Raitt and that hurt both of them.  The Conservatives with voices ARE hard right in a historical sense: Scheer, Kenney, Ford, Moe, Rempel, Poillevere (don't care if Skippy's name is misspelled).  And if reasonable Albertans actually realize that the Liberals and Conservatives aren't that different (which is true) when it comes to economics, why are the pluralities so ridiculous in Western Canada when they continue to rate the economy as a top concern?  Conservative pundits say the Liberals have to figure out how to address western alienation, but that's a two-way street.  The petulance coming out of the west is not helpful. 

As for oil & gas, I agree, but there has to be a real discussion on a transition away from it instead of ignoring climate change.  Trudeau has said he needs the revenue from TMX to fund the transition.  We all know that oil and gas isn't going away anytime soon, but it will become a much less significant source of revenue as time goes on. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

45 minutes ago, pigseye said:

I wasn't whining,... You need to stop making assumptions over the internet, it just makes you look petty.  

Yeah it sounds like you are whining and then being petty about it. 

It's ok the Liberals at least lost their majority and the cons won the popular vote.there is some good that came out of this election.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

3 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

I'm glad the NDP have enough seats that the Liberals only have to work with them. Needing to include the Bloc would have been bad news.

Whats with E. May's love of the BQ?

3 hours ago, Mark H. said:

When you start hearing right wing die hards like Charles Adler saying the CPC needs to move to the centre AND be more accommodating to minorities, the writing is on the wall.  To have Liberals come with a dozen seats of a majority after everything that's happened, speaks volumes. 

CPC under Scheer was more center then Harper I thought but maybe that's only as a result of not being in power.

2 hours ago, JCon said:

I doubt we'll see much on Pharmacare.

I think it's a done deal. Heck maybe even universal dental. Who does not want it? Even the CP's are not hating Pharmacare.

 

2 hours ago, Wideleft said:

The NDP and the Liberals have more in common every year as the Liberals move left.  I hope you're wrong, but I can't say that you are.

In what way?

2 hours ago, pigseye said:

Libs won 80 seats in Ontario (81 last election), the rest of the country didn't even matter at that point. That's how it goes. 

Canada is TSN country.

Scheer is shaking his fist at Ford.

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Both Max Berniers lost. I hope we don't see much from the PPC again. They got served last night. I can't believe how much air time they got throughout the campaign. Yuck. 

Steven Fletcher. What a miserable SOB who has no interest in governing, just settling scores. Good riddance. 

Singh was by far the most impressive during the campaign but that meant very little in votes and less in seats. I have to wonder what will happen to Singh now? There was a time when people thought the world of May but she never translated that into actual wins - is Singh going to suffer the same fate? 

Raitt/Goodale. We lost two great parliamentarians. The voters spoke. 

Bergen re-elected? That's a surprise! Just kidding. 

Bernier would be the next CP leader if he not left. Fletcher and Bergen have anger issues.

Scheer's in a good place. Singh's party might be in trouble but he's polling so high how do you get rid of him? Raitt/Goodale surprise losses.

The Liberals would have had a majority if not for Trudeau. Time for a leadership vote. Granted I just want Carr as PM.

48 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

Ruth Ellen Brosseau lost to the Bloc candidate. That's too bad. Her candidacy was a bit of a joke in 2011, but she made the most of her opportunity and from most accounts was doing a good job. I'm always a sucker for single moms...

Comment adjusted for accuracy.

12 hours ago, Rich said:

She may not have held the position for long, but I do believe that distinction goes to Kim Campbell.

She should should not get portrait for less then half a years work.

[JCon]

7 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Bernier would be the next CP leader if he not left. Fletcher and Bergen have anger issues.

Scheer's in a good place. Singh's party might be in trouble but he's polling so high how do you get rid of him? Raitt/Goodale surprise losses.

The Liberals would have had a majority if not for Trudeau. Time for a leadership vote. Granted I just want Carr as PM.

I'm not sure about that. The leadership campaign exposed Bernier for who he was. I couldn't see him consolidating power in the CPC. 

Sheer's in a good place only because the campaign was so terrible. He should survive to see another team around him. 

Re: Singh. The only polls that matters closed last night. He wasn't so popular there. 

Interesting that minority gov't might save Trudeau. The Libs won't want to a full-fledged leadership review and campaign while holding a minority gov't. They desperately need to remove him but I can't see how they will. 

[17to85]

34 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

And if reasonable Albertans actually realize that the Liberals and Conservatives aren't that different (which is true) when it comes to economics, why are the pluralities so ridiculous in Western Canada when they continue to rate the economy as a top concern?  Conservative pundits say the Liberals have to figure out how to address western alienation, but that's a two-way street.  The petulance coming out of the west is not helpful. 

and calling it petulance is part of the problem. 
"Stupid Albertans, just vote Liberal" Just furthers the problem. Pierre Trudeau did serious damage to the Liberal brand that is undeniable but the Liberal party has never seriously tried to address that. they know they can win without Alberta or the west so they just carry on with is as a lost cause and conservative governments everywhere use those feelings to get themselves elected on anti Liberal sentiment. 

[Wideleft]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

and calling it petulance is part of the problem. 
"Stupid Albertans, just vote Liberal" Just furthers the problem. Pierre Trudeau did serious damage to the Liberal brand that is undeniable but the Liberal party has never seriously tried to address that. they know they can win without Alberta or the west so they just carry on with is as a lost cause and conservative governments everywhere use those feelings to get themselves elected on anti Liberal sentiment. 

But it is petulance when Kenney and Danielle Smith are stoking separatism.  Alberta had a good thing going (in terms of credibility and governance) with Notley and threw it away.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Wideleft

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

8 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

But it is petulance when Kenney and Danielle Smith are stoking separatism.  Alberta had a good thing going (in terms of credibility and governance) with Notley and threw it away.

Never understood why Albertans got rid of Notley. Maybe you have to live in Alberta to understand...

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Never understood why Albertans got rid of Notley. Maybe you have to live in Alberta to understand...

The NDP actually got more votes in 2019 than they did in 2015, although a lower overall percentage. But, the right was split in 2015. You're not going to change that many minds. The Right is entrenched. 

Edited October 22, 2019 by JCon