Canadian Politics

[17to85]

22 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Never understood why Albertans got rid of Notley. Maybe you have to live in Alberta to understand...

because things are very shitty here right now. People have lost jobs, people have had to change careers and take massive pay cuts, all the federal parties save the conservatives have spoken about ending oil and gas and generally just been shitting on Alberta. There is very real anger towards the rest of the country out here for very legitimate reasons. I mean the Bloc guy in his speech last night basically threw in a "**** you Alberta" for no reason other than to be antagonistic! That is how Kenney won. He played on that anger. The rest of the country just seems to ignore it though. 

[JCon]

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

because things are very shitty here right now. People have lost jobs, people have had to change careers and take massive pay cuts, all the federal parties save the conservatives have spoken about ending oil and gas and generally just been shitting on Alberta. There is very real anger towards the rest of the country out here for very legitimate reasons. I mean the Bloc guy in his speech last night basically threw in a "**** you Alberta" for no reason other than to be antagonistic! That is how Kenney won. He played on that anger. The rest of the country just seems to ignore it though. 

It's bad enough when external forces are working against you but it's outrageous when your fellow countrymen, who rely on your economic contributions, do the same. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

19 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

because things are very shitty here right now. People have lost jobs, people have had to change careers and take massive pay cuts,

But isnt that a massive pay cut when they in a high income bracket?

[Wideleft]

9 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

because things are very shitty here right now. People have lost jobs, people have had to change careers and take massive pay cuts, all the federal parties save the conservatives have spoken about ending oil and gas and generally just been shitting on Alberta. There is very real anger towards the rest of the country out here for very legitimate reasons. I mean the Bloc guy in his speech last night basically threw in a "**** you Alberta" for no reason other than to be antagonistic! That is how Kenney won. He played on that anger. The rest of the country just seems to ignore it though. 

Pretending that you're the only province that ever went through tough times doesn't help things.  It wasn't so long ago (during the oil boom) that Alberta was telling Quebec how to spend their money ("we're paying for your daycare!").

Like it or not, Alberta (not all Albertans) isn't so different from Rider fans.  They get a little bit of success and become insufferable because of it and rather than working towards solutions with government partners, they stomp their feet demanding attention.  

 

Today 2 premiers made announcements regarding the Carbon Tax.  Conservative Premier Blaine Higgs announced that "the voters have spoken" and will now work towards a New Brunswick version of the Carbon Tax as an alternative to the Federal backstop.

Saskatchewan Conservative Premier Scott Moe released a list of 4 demands - one of which is the outright cancellation of the Carbon Tax.  Haven't noticed if Kenney co-signed.

[17to85]

8 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

But isnt that a massive pay cut when they in a high income bracket?

How about going from a well paying job to having to work minimum wage in an u related field, or maybe not even having a career. This is the attitude that fuels resentment. I would be happy to make less working in oil and has, but there's no work so I am forced to try and transition, while also dealing with the stigma that exists with oil and gas people.

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Pretending that you're the only province that ever went through tough times doesn't help things.  It wasn't so long ago (during the oil boom) that Alberta was telling Quebec how to spend their money ("we're paying for your daycare!").

Like it or not, Alberta (not all Albertans) isn't so different from Rider fans.  They get a little bit of success and become insufferable because of it and rather than working towards solutions with government partners, they stomp their feet demanding attention.  

 

Today 2 premiers made announcements regarding the Carbon Tax.  Conservative Premier Blaine Higgs announced that "the voters have spoken" and will now work towards a New Brunswick version of the Carbon Tax as an alternative to the Federal backstop.

Saskatchewan Conservative Premier Scott Moe released a list of 4 demands - one of which is the outright cancellation of the Carbon Tax.  Haven't noticed if Kenney co-signed.

It plays well to the base and stirs anti-Ottawa sentiment. 

[17to85]

11 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Pretending that you're the only province that ever went through tough times doesn't help things.  It wasn't so long ago (during the oil boom) that Alberta was telling Quebec how to spend their money ("we're paying for your daycare!").

Like it or not, Alberta (not all Albertans) isn't so different from Rider fans.  They get a little bit of success and become insufferable because of it and rather than working towards solutions with government partners, they stomp their feet demanding attention.  

 

So there are always ignorant pricks, just like all the ignorant pricks herp derping about the loss of oil and gas jobs. 

The only reason the state of things is this bad is political. If we as a country could get our product to market we could sell for a higher price and yes things wouldn't be booming like they were 15 years ago, but it would be stable and people would still invest in our country. Instead every party but one made varying promises to actively harm one of our countries big industries and one remaining place where people could get good jobs. 

Why shouldn't we be angry when our own government is handcuffing us and treating us like lepers for political gain in other parts of the country?

The correct course of action is to marry climate change with responsible development of our resources, but not one party proposed that. 

[pigseye]

So JT was willing to 'break the law' to save 10,000 jobs in Quebec (SNC Lavalin) but is stuck to do anything about the 200,000 lost energy jobs and counting in the rest of Canada, presumably because of Climate Change, which Canada can't really do anything about, except be a moral leader for the rest of the world. 

Makes perfect sense. 

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 minute ago, pigseye said:

So JT was willing to 'break the law' to save 10,000 jobs in Quebec (SNC Lavalin) but is stuck to do anything about the 200,000 lost energy jobs and counting in the rest of Canada, presumably because of Climate Change, which Canada can't really do anything about, except be a moral leader for the rest of the world. 

Makes perfect sense. 

He did buy a pipeline people. 

And how is it the lost energy jobs is not tied to the price of oil?

[pigseye]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

So there are always ignorant pricks, just like all the ignorant pricks herp derping about the loss of oil and gas jobs. 

The only reason the state of things is this bad is political. If we as a country could get our product to market we could sell for a higher price and yes things wouldn't be booming like they were 15 years ago, but it would be stable and people would still invest in our country. Instead every party but one made varying promises to actively harm one of our countries big industries and one remaining place where people could get good jobs. 

Why shouldn't we be angry when our own government is handcuffing us and treating us like lepers for political gain in other parts of the country?

The correct course of action is to marry climate change with responsible development of our resources, but not one party proposed that. 

Here's the thing though, we 'Canadians' are too rich and consume too much of everything compared to the rest of the world. That is just too morally upsetting for too many people. We Canadians have to lower our standard of living and consume way less. Unfortunately you are the first to feel the pain of this reality. 

[Wideleft]

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The correct course of action is to marry climate change with responsible development of our resources, but not one party proposed that. 

That's pretty much what Trudeau committed to when he bought the TMX pipeline, but stomping feet and irrational hate for an individual was easier, I guess.  We also have 2 O&G provinces that don't even really acknowledge climate change.

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, pigseye said:

Here's the thing though, we 'Canadians' are too rich and consume too much of everything compared to the rest of the world. That is just too morally upsetting for too many people. We Canadians have to lower our standard of living and consume way less. Unfortunately you are the first to feel the pain of this reality. 

Alberta is NOT the first part of Canada to feel economic pain.

[pigseye]

Just now, FrostyWinnipeg said:

He did buy a pipeline people. 

And how is it the lost energy jobs is not tied to the price of oil?

Why is Canadian oil priced $10/barrel below the world price? 

[pigseye]

Just now, Wideleft said:

Alberta is NOT the first part of Canada to feel economic pain.

From the climate change movement they certainly are. 

[Wideleft]

7 minutes ago, pigseye said:

From the climate change movement they certainly are. 

Oh come on.   The price of oil has barely been affected by climate action so far.   Alberta's in trouble because they had 50 years and oodles of money to diversify their economy and chose Dutch disease instead.

[pigseye]

Just now, Wideleft said:

Oh come on.   The price of oil has barely been affected by climate action so far.   Alberta's in trouble because they had 50 years and oodles of money to diversify their economy and chose Dutch disease instead.

Transmountain, like all the rest, is tied up in court because of the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which is just an extension of the IPCC.

[Wideleft]

16 minutes ago, pigseye said:

Transmountain, like all the rest, is tied up in court because of the U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which is just an extension of the IPCC.

How about the other 48 years.

[17to85]

57 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

That's pretty much what Trudeau committed to when he bought the TMX pipeline, but stomping feet and irrational hate for an individual was easier, I guess.  We also have 2 O&G provinces that don't even really acknowledge climate change.

he bought the pipeline because he had to in order to try and save some investor confidence in Canada. He certainly hasn't done anything to get it built, he killed other pipelines, he passed other legislation to hinder efforts to market it. 

 

[blue_gold_84]

5 hours ago, JCon said:

I don't he will. He won the "popular" vote (Hilary says, "hi") and I think he'll survive the next leadership review in a year. I think the CPC should be very disappointed in the outcome but can look at their own failed strategies during the election. 

Sheer needs to grow, he needs to mature. And, presumably, he can do that. 

He already made it clear he won't step down. Weird how he expected Trudeau to step down if he lost the election, but won't do the same now that he's the one who actually wound up losing. Fascinating double standard.

FWIW, I think he'll become a scapegoat sooner than later (if he hasn't already) and the CPC will have another leadership race in the next 12-18 months.

2 hours ago, pigseye said:

From the climate change movement they certainly are. 

Any actual, valid proof to substantiate this claim? Nah.

[rebusrankin]

So Alberta has been one of the economic engines of Canada for over 50 years. They currently are the major funder of equalization. Quebec has had economic issues for decades and is the province that receives the most in equalization, $ that if they didn't receive would mean a significant reduction in their social programs and they have the gall to dump on Alberta and its energy industry? To make it worse, you have people in the ROC, including some on this board who do the same.

[Mark H.]

Here's an article from January 2015 - that sheds plenty of light on what ails the oil and gas industry.  As it turns out, not all oil executives were against the idea of carbon tax - some even viewed it as a necessity.

Here's a snippet: “It’s hard oil,” says Camarta. “It takes a lot of engineering, a lot of capital, a lot of people and a lot of energy.” If Canada truly wants to be an “energy superpower,” it needs to do a much better job offsetting those extra emissions—or else face a future where a trillion-dollar resource is undermined by a $20 T-shirt."

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/stephen-harper-oils-worst-enemy/

Please READ the article before commenting.

[JCon]

35 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

He already made it clear he won't step down. Weird how he expected Trudeau to step down if he lost the election, but won't do the same now that he's the one who actually wound up losing. Fascinating double standard.

FWIW, I think he'll become a scapegoat sooner than later (if he hasn't already) and the CPC will have another leadership race in the next 12-18 months.

Any actual, valid proof to substantiate this claim? Nah.

There's an automatic leadership review that will be held in 6 months. If the daggers are coming, it will be clear in the new year.

For the record, I expect him to stay on as leader and have his leadership renewed. 

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Here's an article from January 2015 - that sheds plenty of light on what ails the oil and gas industry.  As it turns out, not all oil executives were against the idea of carbon tax - some even viewed it as a necessity.

Here's a snippet: “It’s hard oil,” says Camarta. “It takes a lot of engineering, a lot of capital, a lot of people and a lot of energy.” If Canada truly wants to be an “energy superpower,” it needs to do a much better job offsetting those extra emissions—or else face a future where a trillion-dollar resource is undermined by a $20 T-shirt."

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/stephen-harper-oils-worst-enemy/

Please READ the article before commenting.

Yeah the carbon tax isn't as unpopular among oil and gas producers as Jason Kenney and other conservative premiers make it seem, they just use it as an easy weapon against their opponents cause TAXES BAD!!!

I saw the carbon tax of Rachel Notley as an instead of PST and I would much rather we kept control of it in province than letting the federal government have control, but Kenney is all **** everything! so here we are. 

Now personally I am sceptical that they work as well as advertised, and I think it's more about feels than reals when it comes to reducing carbon emissions but whatever, governments always find new ways to tax people.  

[Mark H.]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah the carbon tax isn't as unpopular among oil and gas producers as Jason Kenney and other conservative premiers make it seem, they just use it as an easy weapon against their opponents cause TAXES BAD!!!

I saw the carbon tax of Rachel Notley as an instead of PST and I would much rather we kept control of it in province than letting the federal government have control, but Kenney is all **** everything! so here we are. 

Now personally I am sceptical that they work as well as advertised, and I think it's more about feels than reals when it comes to reducing carbon emissions but whatever, governments always find new ways to tax people.  

I think it is also about how we are perceived on the world stage and in selling our oil to world markets. 

[Mark H.]

30 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

So Alberta has been one of the economic engines of Canada for over 50 years. They currently are the major funder of equalization. Quebec has had economic issues for decades and is the province that receives the most in equalization, $ that if they didn't receive would mean a significant reduction in their social programs and they have the gall to dump on Alberta and its energy industry? To make it worse, you have people in the ROC, including some on this board who do the same.

Manitoba receives more equalization payments per capita than Quebec does - as do Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.