Canadian Politics

[GCn20]

As a residential school survivor I will share my opinion. There really is no way of making reparations for this sad chapter. It must be acknowledged, remembered, but MOST importantly the effects it has had on native society must be understood. Generations separated from parents and community has had a massive trickle down effect to today. Native children having children today have no parental modelling to learn from because their parents and even grand parents don't even know how to role model for their children because they were never taught how. If the government of Canada wants to start making reparations then start in the present by overhauling CFS so that it becomes proactive instead of reactive. Bring back parental guidance and supports so that the new generations can learn how to teach their own children morals, and values and what it takes to be a responsible parent. Start by giving aboriginals a hand up, not a hand out. Create industry on reserves so that there is meaningful employment. The lazy Indian myth only persists to this day because the government stuck our people in the middle of nowhere with no prospect for employment. Start by fixing the water and housing crisis plaguing every reserve. Start by allowing first nations people to actually own the land and house they live on/in so that they may start building wealth.  Start by forcing native leadership to produce financial statements to their people so that there is transparency. I could rattle off a hundred more things.....but I'll leave you with those to chew on for a bit.

[the watcher]

On 2021-06-01 at 1:11 PM, Bigblue204 said:

It's important literally every church has a response of some kind. It wasn't just the Catholic church involved. I'd implore everyone who goes to a church to demand some kind of action, and if there isn't any, I'd urge you to leave it. 

I know both the United Church and the Anglican Church have apologised for their part. I don't know what  other steps they have taken. I have no idea why the Catholic Church wouldn't at least do the same.

[the watcher]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

As a residential school survivor I will share my opinion. There really is no way of making reparations for this sad chapter. It must be acknowledged, remembered, but MOST importantly the effects it has had on native society must be understood. Generations separated from parents and community has had a massive trickle down effect to today. Native children having children today have no parental modelling to learn from because their parents and even grand parents don't even know how to role model for their children because they were never taught how. If the government of Canada wants to start making reparations then start in the present by overhauling CFS so that it becomes proactive instead of reactive. Bring back parental guidance and supports so that the new generations can learn how to teach their own children morals, and values and what it takes to be a responsible parent. Start by giving aboriginals a hand up, not a hand out. Create industry on reserves so that there is meaningful employment. The lazy Indian myth only persists to this day because the government stuck our people in the middle of nowhere with no prospect for employment. Start by fixing the water and housing crisis plaguing every reserve. Start by allowing first nations people to actually own the land and house they live on/in so that they may start building wealth.  Start by forcing native leadership to produce financial statements to their people so that there is transparency. I could rattle off a hundred more things.....but I'll leave you with those to chew on for a bit.

It seems all my life every government of every stripe and level  promises to adress and fix this but it just never happens. It must be sickening as a indigenous  person. 

[Wideleft]

32 minutes ago, the watcher said:

I will use McDonald as an example. So a statue of him with a plaque in front, written by indigenous  people describing what he did, how it impacted them and how it's legacy still impacts them still would not be celebrating him. It would flip the story. It would serve as a reminder of what happened and possibly educate those who just don't get it . Ripping it down may feel good but serves no purpose on changing peoples minds or teaching them about what happened. Basicly the same idea as what you see in the museum of Human Rights but not within its walls where some never  venture.

If we're going to teach history using statues and plaques, we're doing it wrong.

[the watcher]

14 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

If we're going to teach history using statues and plaques, we're doing it wrong.

  As I said leave it up to indigenous people. 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, the watcher said:

  As I said leave it up to indigenous people. 

They've been pretty unequivocal about this. 

[the watcher]

3 minutes ago, JCon said:

They've been pretty unequivocal about this. 

Which is fine. All this started with my thought that perhaps instead wiping out traces of things done  wrong that we turn them into education opportunities. This isn't a wild  idea and has been done in other parts of the world I  other circumstances. 

[JCon]

Of course, tearing down statues or putting up plaques has nothing to do with reconciliation. 

 

However, I certainly don't want these people honoured in our parks. I don't want their them honoured with street names. 

We can teach history without honouring those that perpetrated the genocide. 

Edited June 3, 2021 by JCon

[the watcher]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

Of course, tearing down statues or putting up plaques has nothing to do with reconciliation. 

 

However, I certainly don't want these people honoured in our parks. I don't want their them honoured with street names. 

We can teach history without honouring those that perpetrated the genocide. 

I agree.

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, the watcher said:

I know both the United Church and the Anglican Church have apologised for their part. I don't know what  other steps they have taken. I have no idea why the Catholic Church wouldn't at least do the same.

Unfortunately I believe it all comes down to $$. Apologizing = admitting. Which means they face consequences, which likely means a hefty $$ pay out to communities effected, which would likely have a trickle down effect to damn  near every other part of the world as the catholic church has been a criminal throughout history.

[the watcher]

1 minute ago, Bigblue204 said:

Unfortunately I believe it all comes down to $$. Apologizing = admitting. Which means they face consequences, which likely means a hefty $$ pay out to communities effected, which would likely have a trickle down effect to damn  near every other part of the world as the catholic church has been a criminal throughout history.

Yes, it might just all come down to money. I have no idea if the United and Anglicans made financial reparations or what else they did .I just know they apologised and admitted their part in it.

[GCn20]

On 2021-06-03 at 8:09 AM, the watcher said:

It seems all my life every government of every stripe and level  promises to adress and fix this but it just never happens. It must be sickening as a indigenous  person. 

My friend, I had to leave to have a chance at success. The government doesn't want to fix this problem imo because this is how they depopulate the reserves. I worked hard and became a successful businessman but I could never have done that on reserve because the avenues available are just not the same. Lending for on reserve business is near impossible to attain because you can never own the property for collateral. No industry/business means no jobs for people. If I could have owned my house and borrowed against the equity I might have stayed on reserve and been able to have a successful business that employs others and help to end the abject poverty and the social conditions it creates. The government needs to get our people working so that they can have a sense of self worth, need to let us own land in our own name on reserve so that we can take pride in our work and possessions. So as it stands the reserves all get a massive exodus from the youth who most want to make an honest living because that is the only option.

On 2021-06-03 at 9:15 AM, Bigblue204 said:

Unfortunately I believe it all comes down to $$. Apologizing = admitting. Which means they face consequences, which likely means a hefty $$ pay out to communities effected, which would likely have a trickle down effect to damn  near every other part of the world as the catholic church has been a criminal throughout history.

Steven Harper's apology was beautiful and heartfelt. I have no doubt about that. It meant a lot to us.  I just wish the governments since then would have followed up.

[GCn20]

Further to the topic of reconciliation, it can never happen until the Indian Act is abolished. It is a document that strips aboriginals of many freedoms and rights and allows for the government, both federally and local first nation governance, to abuse the people. It does not allow us to define ourselves, it does not allow us to own property on our home lands, it does not allow us to monitor our own governance, it is even the legislation that allowed residential schools in the first place, these among many other rights and freedoms that every other citizen of Canada holds dear. It is paternalistic, outdated, and racist. As long as this piece of crap legislation is allowed to exist aboriginals will forever be 2nd rate citizens through an act of parliament.

I'll just give you an example. My grandfather's home, where he raised 11 children for the past 45 years, and was the hub for all of us to gather was taken away by his home reserve recently a couple year's after his death. Although my two aunts and a couple of their children lived there it was deemed that someone else needed the house more so they were evicted and another family moved in. My aunts were forced to go live with other siblings in their houses with their families and our entire family lost our gathering place. Who does this sort of thing and how is it allowed? Check the Indian Act for answers.

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by GCn20

[GCn20]

I would just like to take a moment to voice my displeasure with the Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakinak chief and council for violating public health orders right now as I type this. A memoriam service to the 215 is being held in Thompson at a residential school memoriam with a gathering of about 150 ppl in attendance. I understand the need for this for healing but this should have been livestreamed and our Grand Chief and Council should have respected the Public Health Orders currently in place. Shame on you MKO for putting lives at risks like this. Northern reserves have been under the harshest restrictions since the pandemic began and this runs contrary to all messaging so far by you and the POM. 

The 215 was a disgusting find and it brought back a lot trauma from res school survivors but we are also in the midst of a pandemic that is adversely effecting your membership as many reserves are on lockdown right now. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by GCn20

[Tracker]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I would just like to take a moment to voice my displeasure with the Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakinak chief and council for violating public health orders right now as I type this. A memoriam service to the 215 is being held in Thompson at a residential school memoriam with a gathering of about 150 ppl in attendance. I understand the need for this for healing but this should have been livestreamed and our Grand Chief and Council should have respected the Public Health Orders currently in place. Shame on you MKO for putting lives at risks like this. Northern reserves have been under the harshest restrictions since the pandemic began and this runs contrary to all messaging so far by you and the POM. 

The 215 was a disgusting find and it brought back a lot trauma from res school survivors but we are also in the midst of a pandemic that is adversely effecting your membership as many reserves are on lockdown right now. 

Expecting all leaders of aboriginal communities  to be smarter than, say, Kenney or certain Manitoba cabinet ministers is unrealistic. People are people and some will have brain cramps and some will ignore common-sense rules.  Same as police and even clergy.

[GCn20]

27 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Expecting all leaders of aboriginal communities  to be smarter than, say, Kenney or certain Manitoba cabinet ministers is unrealistic. People are people and some will have brain cramps and some will ignore common-sense rules.  Same as police and even clergy.

Yep all true....doesn't make it right.

[Tracker]

13 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Yep all true....doesn't make it right.

Correct, and that is why we need to keep vigilant over our elected officials and community leaders of all sorts. As Mark Twain said, "Politicians and diapers need to be changed often and for the same reasons."

[17to85]

9 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Further to the topic of reconciliation, it can never happen until the Indian Act is abolished. It is a document that strips aboriginals of many freedoms and rights and allows for the government, both federally and local first nation governance, to abuse the people. It does not allow us to define ourselves, it does not allow us to own property on our home lands, it does not allow us to monitor our own governance, it is even the legislation that allowed residential schools in the first place, these among many other rights and freedoms that every other citizen of Canada holds dear. It is paternalistic, outdated, and racist. As long as this piece of crap legislation is allowed to exist aboriginals will forever be 2nd rate citizens through an act of parliament.

I'll just give you an example. My grandfather's home, where he raised 11 children for the past 45 years, and was the hub for all of us to gather was taken away by his home reserve recently a couple year's after his death. Although my two aunts and a couple of their children lived there it was deemed that someone else needed the house more so they were evicted and another family moved in. My aunts were forced to go live with other siblings in their houses with their families and our entire family lost our gathering place. Who does this sort of thing and how is it allowed? Check the Indian Act for answers.

 

 

 

I think you will find that there would be resistance to doing away with the Indian act from natives themselves. Fear of getting less. Plus you would need to get a whole hell of a lot of bands to agree which would be a nightmare I think. 

The situation is ****** beyond belief and I truly believe that solutions have to come from within because there is no way in hell the federal government is fixing this mess.

[Mark H.]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I think you will find that there would be resistance to doing away with the Indian act from natives themselves. Fear of getting less. Plus you would need to get a whole hell of a lot of bands to agree which would be a nightmare I think. 

The situation is ****** beyond belief and I truly believe that solutions have to come from within because there is no way in hell the federal government is fixing this mess.

Governments of the past might have had the capability if the will had been there. No way in hell will Trudeau and his platitudes do anything about it. 

[GCJenks]

On 2021-06-01 at 4:44 PM, 17to85 said:

I am just a fan of being technically correct. The best kind of correct.

How does that go over with you wife?

Some interesting reading this morning thank you @GCn20for sharing your stories and feelings. I believe to truly move forward we (all Canadians) need to hear more of this from people like yourself. Only when it become the primary story being told can change really happen. 
As long as there is any resistance to abolishing the IA from indigenous leaders the government will use that excuse to do nothing. They refuse to recognize that those voicing their resistance are the ones using it to profit off the oppression of their own people. 

[GCn20]

On 2021-06-04 at 8:32 PM, 17to85 said:

I think you will find that there would be resistance to doing away with the Indian act from natives themselves. Fear of getting less. Plus you would need to get a whole hell of a lot of bands to agree which would be a nightmare I think. 

The situation is ****** beyond belief and I truly believe that solutions have to come from within because there is no way in hell the federal government is fixing this mess.

There will be massive resistance to repealing the Indian Act from native leadership everywhere and It's not about fear of getting less. Right now the Indian Act allows for hereditary chiefs which some reserves employ. This is basically a dictatorship because the Indian Act has no built in accountability for chiefs and councils. The abuses of power run rampant on reserves even with elected chiefs and councils. There is massive nepotism, strategic vote buying, and wasteful non-warranted spending. Every reserve has stories of the chief's lavish house in Winnipeg, of expensive vacations, of massive spending on family and friends, all on the reserves dime. Just imagine what any level of government would do if they could freely spend in any manner, for any reason, and not have to give details on where the money went. I'm not saying that all chiefs or councillors are corrupt, a lot of them think they are doing the right thing sometimes when they spend massive amounts of money, but at the end of the day no one (not even the federal government) knows where the money went or whether it was used as allocated. All of this because the Indian Act makes it so. I know of people being BCRed (band council resolution) and forced off their reserves because they were deemed troublemakers by the reserve government of the day. Imagine the government having the power to come and force you out of not just your house, but your entire community, because you were in conflict with them. Sounds bizarre....it happens more than you think and the Indian Act makes it so.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/manitoba-gives-the-reins-of-a-provincial-park-to-a-private-company-1.5460295

[the watcher]

13 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/manitoba-gives-the-reins-of-a-provincial-park-to-a-private-company-1.5460295

I guess there was still a couple of people who weren't pissed off at Palister and company yet. This should cover it. 

[Noeller]

it's such an Alberta move to privatize provincial parks. Absolutely sickening.

[blue_gold_84]

47 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/manitoba-gives-the-reins-of-a-provincial-park-to-a-private-company-1.5460295

How utterly ******* disgraceful. The pox on the PCs.