Canadian Politics

[JCon]

38 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

That is certainly your opinion, and I respect your right to have it.

The Globe and Mail is an editorial by an award winning journalist that has been in their employ for many, many years. Again, where did I mention the left extremism on campuses to be a uniquely Canadian thing?

Not now obviously, but I invite you to go onto a campus and actually see some of open and free speech that you can see. Everything from swastikas to dead fetuses to Residential School denialism. Lots of free speech happening on campuses. Only hate speech is limited. Otherwise, it's a smorgasbord of some of the most disgusting individuals the alt-right can barf up. 

[GCn20]

7 minutes ago, Mark F said:

"left extremism."

 

-universal healthcare

- environmental concerns

- living wage concern

- minority rights concern

- womens rights concerns

right to form a union concern

these, in some circles, would be extreme left wing.

last time there were violent left winger..... black,panthers, they ere all shot, killed, and jailed

 

 

 

What a crock. That's total bullshit. List off the most admirable traits of the left and then try and suggest the right finds this extreme. Total crap. The last time there was violent left was the Black Panthers? SMH...how about ANTIFA or BLM just off the top of my head.

9 minutes ago, JCon said:

Not now obviously, but I invite you to go onto a campus and actually see some of open and free speech that you can see. Everything from swastikas to dead fetuses to Residential School denialism. Lots of free speech happening on campuses. Only hate speech is limited. Otherwise, it's a smorgasbord of some of the most disgusting individuals the alt-right can barf up. 

Hey...i'm not proud of the alt-right. I am a middle C conservative. I just disagree with the notion that there aren't factions on the far left that are barf worthy as well.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

50 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

What a crock. That's total bullshit. List off the most admirable traits of the left and then try and suggest the right finds this extreme. Total crap. The last time there was violent left was the Black Panthers? SMH...how about ANTIFA or BLM just off the top of my head.

All of those "most admirable traits" are what the right ardently fight against. The right do consider them extreme and lump it all in on the specter of the SOCIALISM boogeyman...  

52 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

 The last time there was violent left was the Black Panthers? SMH...how about ANTIFA or BLM just off the top of my head.

BLM? those protests were pretty much 99% peaceful. BLM is FAR from a violent movement. Antifa? sure, some are violent and that should be denounced- but the majority of their work is cybersluething and they are defined by what they oppose instead of what they stand for. 

 

[Mark F]

2 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

BLM? those protests were pretty much 99% peaceful. BLM is FAR from a violent movement. Antifa? sure, some are violent and that should be denounced- but the majority of their work is cybersluething and they are defined by what they oppose instead of what they stand for. 

 

not to mention the violence caused by right wing nazis, at black lives protests, the purpose of which was to smear blm. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Mark F

[Tracker]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

No that is such bullshit. It's not indoctrination, it's that people who are educated see through the bullshit of conservatism. Education is bad for the current form of conservatism not because of indoctrination but because a lot of the things that conservatives push for are bad for society as a whole.

One of the truest things that Trump said (and maybe the only one) was that he loved the uneducated.  He knew who was gullible and stupid enough to vote for him.

[Mark F]

"WASHINGTON — Attorney General Merrick Garland told Congress on Wednesday that violence incited by white supremacists poses “the most dangerous threat to our democracy.” That assertion reflects near-universal consensus among national security experts, including those who worked for the Trump administration."

please post articles showing blm and antifa invading the US legislature, hunting for Mike Pence, and Pelosi, and  plotting to kidnap and put on trial and execute the governor of Michigan. or blm driving car into a peacefulmprotester, and murdering her.

this is stupid, and I am out.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Mark F

[the watcher]

I'm just going to throw this in for people to think on:

I read a book on the Great Depression this winter and alot who went through it talked about how everyone was depressed, had given up hope ,saw no future, no way out.It was a general feeling throughout the hard hit west .

It has occurred to me that right now we are suffering an equal mass psychosis ( not sure if that's the right word ) But this time it's anger.  Left is furious with right, right with left, vaccinated  angry with unvaccinated  and vise versa, non maskers vs masked, ......It seems to be in every country, every where. I find myself thinking " You deserve  it if you die unvaccinated from covid " which is stupid because I know some real good people who aren't  vaccinated. Where does entire angry societies take us ? I don't know but the BEST case scenario is now where.

 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

That is certainly your opinion, and I respect your right to have it.

Not just an opinion. I have heard Jason kenney use the same talking point about leftist indoctrination in the education system, and look at the curriculum he is trying to force down Alberta's throats... no critical thinking, only rote memorization and spitting up memorized facts. You know why? Because I'd people start to question things and think about things for themselves they will reject the grift that conservatives love to push on people. He wants blindly obedient voters who only remember what they are told. 

[WildPath]

13 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Not just an opinion. I have heard Jason kenney use the same talking point about leftist indoctrination in the education system, and look at the curriculum he is trying to force down Alberta's throats... no critical thinking, only rote memorization and spitting up memorized facts. You know why? Because I'd people start to question things and think about things for themselves they will reject the grift that conservatives love to push on people. He wants blindly obedient voters who only remember what they are told. 

This is also happening in Manitoba. Our government has very much been manipulating, defunding and otherwise trying to handicap post-secondary institutions. The goal is to make universities a factory for producing what industry desires. No need for useless critical thinking.

This also continues will controversial (to say the least) bill 64 for grade school reform. More standardized testing, elected boards being replaced by parent councils... No wonder the current education minister applauded when a PC leadership candidate announced she would repeal the bill.

[Tracker]

You may recall that when the Mulroney regime had so disgraced itself that the polls showed that they had no chance of being re-elected, they trotted out Kim Campbell as their sacrificial offering, and tried show that they were not a bunch of misogynistic miscreants by appointing her the new captain of the Titanic. This is probably the thinking in the inner circle of the provincial PC party. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Tracker

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, Tracker said:

You may recall that when the Mulroney regime had so disgraced itself that the polls showed that they had no chance of being re-elected, they trotted out Flora MacDonald as their sacrificial offering, and tried show that they were not a bunch of misogynistic miscreants by appointing her the new captain of the Titanic. This is probably the thinking in the inner circle of the provincial PC party. 

Kim Campbell? 

[Tracker]

39 minutes ago, JCon said:

Kim Campbell? 

Yup. Senility. Apparently Flora was offered the position but saw it as no-win situation and declined.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Tracker

[WildPath]

Speaking of senility... I just found out that workers are indoctrinating senior citizens with conservative beliefs in senior facilities! Seniors facilities are loaded with conservative voters and we cannot allow this indoctrination to continue! (poor attempt at sarcasm)

 

[Mark F]

"Far-right extremist groups are “actively recruiting” past and present members of the military and police, according to a declassified Canadian intelligence report obtained by Global News.

The report cited 17 examples in Canada, the U.S., U.K., Germany and New Zealand which “illustrate the intersections and relationships between ideologically motivated violent extremism and uniformed personnel.”

Six of the cases involved members of the Canadian military or reserves."

Global News https://globalnews.ca/news/8128463/extremist-groups-military-recruitment-report/

no mention of communist, marxist, or socialist,  extremist groups.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Mark F

[TrueBlue4ever]

17 minutes ago, Mark F said:

"Far-right extremist groups are “actively recruiting” past and present members of the military and police, according to a declassified Canadian intelligence report obtained by Global News.

The report cited 17 examples in Canada, the U.S., U.K., Germany and New Zealand which “illustrate the intersections and relationships between ideologically motivated violent extremism and uniformed personnel.”

Six of the cases involved members of the Canadian military or reserves."

Global News https://globalnews.ca/news/8128463/extremist-groups-military-recruitment-report/

no mention of communist, marxist, or socialist,  extremist groups.

To be fair, ANTIFA has had tons of military members. They fought the Nazis in WW2. 

[GCn20]

18 hours ago, the watcher said:

I'm just going to throw this in for people to think on:

I read a book on the Great Depression this winter and alot who went through it talked about how everyone was depressed, had given up hope ,saw no future, no way out.It was a general feeling throughout the hard hit west .

It has occurred to me that right now we are suffering an equal mass psychosis ( not sure if that's the right word ) But this time it's anger.  Left is furious with right, right with left, vaccinated  angry with unvaccinated  and vise versa, non maskers vs masked, ......It seems to be in every country, every where. I find myself thinking " You deserve  it if you die unvaccinated from covid " which is stupid because I know some real good people who aren't  vaccinated. Where does entire angry societies take us ? I don't know but the BEST case scenario is now where.

 

Yes, there seems to be a penchant for gross over reaction to opposing view points right now that is leading to even more polarization. No side of the political spectrum seems to want to admit or fix flaws they have and are instead blaming the opposite end of the spectrum for the flaws existing. Too many examples of this to count are found right here in this thread. It is sad. Instead of thoughtful debate on issues it devolves into "well your side is worse". This is how we have governments of the day pushing repulsive policy down our throats while playing boogeyman politics to re-inforce their popularity. That happens on the left and right of the political spectrum. Anyone saying otherwise is part of the problem.

[the watcher]

10 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

To be fair, ANTIFA has had tons of military members. They fought the Nazis in WW2. 

I was having a conversation with a young man who was really ragging on Antifa and I pointed out to him that both his grandfather and my uncle were antifa in the 1940s. He didn't seem to appreciate my observation. 

[blue_gold_84]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/pc-leadership-race-rules-1.6151044

Quote

Manitoba's Progressive Conservative Party will choose a new leader — and the next premier of this province — on Oct. 30, the party's executive council decided Monday evening.

PC members who want to succeed Brian Pallister as premier have to pony up $25,000 to enter the race, sign up by Sept. 15 and sign up at least 1,000 members by Sept. 30, the party said in a statement.

The new leader and premier will be chosen through a one-member, one-vote election. There will not be any delegates to determine the result.

Voting will be conducted by mail and the ballots will be counted in Winnipeg on Oct. 30, the party said.

 

[Mark F]

"Researchers who monitor extremist groups at the Anti-Defamation Leagueand the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism said they, too, were not aware of a single murder linked to an American anti-fascist in the last 20 to 25 years.

Heidi Beirich, a co-founder of the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism, said some leftwing groups were known for more radical and violent tactics in the 1960s, adding: “It’s just not the case today.”

Mark Pitcavage said he knew of only one killing, 27 years ago, that might potentially be classified as connected to anti-fascist activism: the shooting of a racist skinhead, Eric Banks, by an anti-racist skinhead, John Bair, in Portland, Oregon, in 1993.

over the same period (1994) Over the same time period, American white supremacists and other rightwing extremists have carried out attacks that left at least 329 victims dead, according to the database."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

 

repeat a lie often enough........

[JCon]

6 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/pc-leadership-race-rules-1.6151044

 

That's fast. But, they made the barrier to entry very high, so it's a Stefanson coronation. I thought they would go for a broad campaign, welcoming new people and ideas but that's clearly not the case. Hand the reigns to Stefanson and let her take the party into the next election. 

[17to85]

56 minutes ago, Mark F said:

"Researchers who monitor extremist groups at the Anti-Defamation Leagueand the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism said they, too, were not aware of a single murder linked to an American anti-fascist in the last 20 to 25 years.

Heidi Beirich, a co-founder of the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism, said some leftwing groups were known for more radical and violent tactics in the 1960s, adding: “It’s just not the case today.”

Mark Pitcavage said he knew of only one killing, 27 years ago, that might potentially be classified as connected to anti-fascist activism: the shooting of a racist skinhead, Eric Banks, by an anti-racist skinhead, John Bair, in Portland, Oregon, in 1993.

over the same period (1994) Over the same time period, American white supremacists and other rightwing extremists have carried out attacks that left at least 329 victims dead, according to the database."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

 

repeat a lie often enough........

Yeah but both sides!!!!

[Mark F]

13 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Yeah but both sides!!!!

and theright winger  person here that "both sides", will ignore the article, and the facts, and continueto  believe and repeat the right wing lies. 

Need to be a shrink or sociologist to understand it. I think I would rather talk to someone who knows its a lie, but repeats it for other reasons. 
 

people who are impervious to reason are timmewasters. my time. they have a full arsenal of excuses, explanations, dodges, and bait and switches that they resort to. 

same thing with climate change. 

even exxon admits burning oil heats the planet, but there are millions who dont, wont, cant understand this.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Mark F

[TrueBlue4ever]

54 minutes ago, Mark F said:

"Researchers who monitor extremist groups at the Anti-Defamation Leagueand the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism said they, too, were not aware of a single murder linked to an American anti-fascist in the last 20 to 25 years.

Heidi Beirich, a co-founder of the Global Project Against Hate and Extremism, said some leftwing groups were known for more radical and violent tactics in the 1960s, adding: “It’s just not the case today.”

Mark Pitcavage said he knew of only one killing, 27 years ago, that might potentially be classified as connected to anti-fascist activism: the shooting of a racist skinhead, Eric Banks, by an anti-racist skinhead, John Bair, in Portland, Oregon, in 1993.

over the same period (1994) Over the same time period, American white supremacists and other rightwing extremists have carried out attacks that left at least 329 victims dead, according to the database."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/us-rightwing-extremists-attacks-deaths-database-leftwing-antifa

 

repeat a lie often enough........

That database is good to May of 2020, so it does not include the killing of right-wing activist Aaron “Jay” Danielson by self -proclaimed ANTIFA member Michael Reinhoel. And it also does not include the Kyle Rittenhouse killing of two BLM protesters. Both of those incidents were in August 2020. So 331-1 actually. 

[Mark F]

7 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Kyle Rittenhouse

The American fascist hero. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Yes, there seems to be a penchant for gross over reaction to opposing view points right now that is leading to even more polarization. No side of the political spectrum seems to want to admit or fix flaws they have and are instead blaming the opposite end of the spectrum for the flaws existing. Too many examples of this to count are found right here in this thread. It is sad. Instead of thoughtful debate on issues it devolves into "well your side is worse". This is how we have governments of the day pushing repulsive policy down our throats while playing boogeyman politics to re-inforce their popularity. That happens on the left and right of the political spectrum. Anyone saying otherwise is part of the problem.

Ok, if you want thoughtful debate, we are till awaiting your list of extreme left stances. So far, you have ID’d 2 groups (BLM and ANTIFA) but not elaborated how their stances are extreme (there have been extreme actions by a very few members, but I would question if that then makes the entire movement extreme, or their stance extreme). Other than that or suppessing free speech on University campuses (which others debate as hate speech) all you have come back with is “surely you jest if you are so biased as to not see the extreme leftism which is strongly present at this time. And your failure to admit this makes you part of the problem”. That’s not debate, so you are engaging in the same behaviour you just decried. So once again, provide a list of extreme left wing positions so we can have that thoughtful debate you want.