Canadian Politics

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

40 years ago. Reagan was the first. 

 

They can ignore history all they want but they won't govern this country with that stance. Harper realized this, which is why he lured the small "c" conservatives with tax and spending cuts. 

And that is what the next leader will have to do as well. I don't think even the diehard CPC right wingers think they can win an election on a protest vote like Trump managed to do. The CPC will take a moderate approach with a few more assurances to the Alberta caucus about a slow roll to climate change policy to bridge the gap.

[JCon]

Liberals need to do some soul searching too. Trudeau is not popular and they need to transition to the next leader soon. Why won't they just do it now, while it's safe to do so? They're trying to implode. 

4 minutes ago, JCon said:

40 years ago. Reagan was the first. 

 

They can ignore history all they want but they won't govern this country with that stance. Harper realized this, which is why he lured the small "c" conservatives with tax and spending cuts. 

And to not raise the abortion issue. Can't forget that. 

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

And that is what the next leader will have to do as well. I don't think even the diehard CPC right wingers think they can win an election on a protest vote like Trump managed to do. The CPC will take a moderate approach with a few more assurances to the Alberta caucus about a slow roll to climate change policy to bridge the gap.

But they won't. Not now, at least. They just ousted the leader that was trying to pull them to the middle because he was doing so. It's just a long drawn out process. 

[WildPath]

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The overwhelming majority of CPC supporters do not support anti-vaxxers or their mandates. There is nothing fractious about that. Some of our MPs want to step into bed with them, so be it, we are not and never have been a party that requires all MPs and all members to group think and conform in all ideologies. However, the overwhelming majority of CPC members are neither right wing zealots or wing nuts and that is what you guys on the left have a real hard time comprehending. The vast majority of CPC supporters do so because they favor a conservative approach to financial management and more and more people are starting to wake up to the Justinflation and housing bubble the Liberals have created. You think the next election is going to be fought on the narrative of social justice and pandemic management? Trudeau had better hope for a 5th, 6th and 7th wave then because when the lens goes back to his economic policies he's toast.

Justinflation? lol. He's really got into your heads. Some kind of weird obsession. Have you bothered to check the facts on this, or is it just easier to repeat whatever you hear?

Since the start of the pandemic, inflation in the US has been consistently higher than inflation in Canada. Guess what? The gap is growing too. US inflation running at 7% while we are at 4.8%. Or is Trudeau so all-powerful and evil that he is controlling US inflation as well.

The interesting thing about the CPC is facts don't matter as long as you are louder and point the finger more intensely at someone else.

[Tracker]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The overwhelming majority of CPC supporters do not support anti-vaxxers or their mandates. There is nothing fractious about that. Some of our MPs want to step into bed with them, so be it, we are not and never have been a party that requires all MPs and all members to group think and conform in all ideologies. However, the overwhelming majority of CPC members are neither right wing zealots or wing nuts and that is what you guys on the left have a real hard time comprehending. The vast majority of CPC supporters do so because they favor a conservative approach to financial management and more and more people are starting to wake up to the Justinflation and housing bubble the Liberals have created. You think the next election is going to be fought on the narrative of social justice and pandemic management? Trudeau had better hope for a 5th, 6th and 7th wave then because when the lens goes back to his economic policies he's toast.

You are seeing what you choose to see. The housing shortage is being market-driven, inflation reflects the slowing of income and expenditures the federal government had to make due to the COVID crisis. Unemployment is low, so where is your argument? The majority of Canadians support progressive policies, including carbon pricing, and rather than accept restrictions on firearms and carbon pricing, the CPC rank and file chose to kill O'Toole the messenger. He was intelligent enough to realize that these policies resonated with the majority of Canadians, and he paid the price for saying it out loud. Instead of realizing that they are out of step with history and Canadian public opinion, they have retreated into unpopular dogma and are wringing their hands in self-pity.

[Noeller]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

Liberals need to do some soul searching too. Trudeau is not popular and they need to transition to the next leader soon. Why won't they just do it now, while it's safe to do so? They're trying to implode. 

I read not long after the last election that he said he intends to stay on for the next one. I'm curious who the next one would even be...while Trudeau is wildly unpopular in some circles, I think he still checks a lot of boxes for a lot of people in some parts of the country. I'm not even sure who, within the current LPC, would be seen as a winner...

[JCon]

When did conservatives decide that the free market was so bad and desperately want gov't intervention? 

[Wideleft]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

And to not raise the abortion issue. Can't forget that. 

I've read that the O'Toole overthrow began over his supporting the Conversion Therapy Ban.  It would not surprise me.

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

2006 was pretty long ago in political terms.

Into almost obliteration...? That's not even remotely accurate, no matter how loudly you bang that drum. The LPC was weak as **** with Dion and Ignatieff as leaders but to suggest the party was nearly obliterated is an exaggeration at best.

There is no narrative saying the CPC doesn't have support in Canada and nobody implied any such thing. The CPC is still the official opposition, even with its internal problems. 

Speaking of narratives, though, your suggestion the PPC doesn't matter is pretty naïve. The PPC is still small by comparison, but its increased support from 2019 to 2021 speaks to the ongoing issues fracturing conservatives in this country, something's that only worsened in the last two years since O'Toole took on leadership and then had to resign yesterday. The pandemic ending won't necessarily make the far right fringes forget the last two years and have them run back to the party that's ostensibly let them down in that time.

I agree Trudeau's days are numbered and that his brand power has faded. However, I can't agree at all on the notion that turfing O'Toole is simply just a reset.

34 seats -3rd party status- and leader could not win his seat. That's the edge of the abyss the Liberals were sitting on in 2006. That's near obliteration.

[JCon]

Just now, Noeller said:

I read not long after the last election that he said he intends to stay on for the next one. I'm curious who the next one would even be...while Trudeau is wildly unpopular in some circles, I think he still checks a lot of boxes for a lot of people in some parts of the country. I'm not even sure who, within the current LPC, would be seen as a winner...

That's what he said. That's the "Trudeau" in him. Stay so long that you become a villain and then stay a bit longer. The party needs to take control back. Trudeau is a powerful, powerful person in the Liberal party and he controls a ton. It's not unlike the way Harper controlled the CPCs. 

[Tracker]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

And that is what the next leader will have to do as well. I don't think even the diehard CPC right wingers think they can win an election on a protest vote like Trump managed to do. The CPC will take a moderate approach with a few more assurances to the Alberta caucus about a slow roll to climate change policy to bridge the gap.

Trump won only by voicing lies, triggering racial fears and hatred, and by a campaign of voter suppression and gerrymandering. He got away with it once and the GOP has realized that they have to corrupt the political system even further to stand another chance.

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Wideleft said:

I've read that the O'Toole overthrow began over his supporting the Conversion Therapy Ban.  It would not surprise me.

Symptom of the problem but not the cause. There were lots of forces at play. 

[Wideleft]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I read not long after the last election that he said he intends to stay on for the next one. I'm curious who the next one would even be...while Trudeau is wildly unpopular in some circles, I think he still checks a lot of boxes for a lot of people in some parts of the country. I'm not even sure who, within the current LPC, would be seen as a winner...

Freeland is the heir apparent.  There are other good choices as well.

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

When did conservatives decide that the free market was so bad and desperately want gov't intervention? 

Probably around the time inflation hit 6% and house prices doubled in a 5 year span. Just my guess.

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

That's what he said. That's the "Trudeau" in him. Stay so long that you become a villain and then stay a bit longer. The party needs to take control back. Trudeau is a powerful, powerful person in the Liberal party and he controls a ton. It's not unlike the way Harper controlled the CPCs. 

Except that Trudeau allows other members of his party to speak freely because they're not all a bunch of backwoods idiots.

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, JCon said:

That's what he said. That's the "Trudeau" in him. Stay so long that you become a villain and then stay a bit longer. The party needs to take control back. Trudeau is a powerful, powerful person in the Liberal party and he controls a ton. It's not unlike the way Harper controlled the CPCs. 

I'm not sure about that...I think that's giving him too much credit. I honestly don't think he's bright enough to be that powerful (and that's coming from someone who's generally a Trudeau fan). I think JPT is a face, and there's a lot of puppeteers behind the scenes pulling strings. But I would be really interested to know who is currently in the LPC that would be a winner in the next election...

[JCon]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Probably around the time inflation hit 6% and house prices doubled in a 5 year span. Just my guess.

So, the free market was just a lie? Knew it!

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

I've read that the O'Toole overthrow began over his supporting the Conversion Therapy Ban.  It would not surprise me.

Completely untrue. A resolution to support the conversion therapy ban was passed with 92% of delegates in favor at the CPC national convention.

[Noeller]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Freeland is the heir apparent.  There are other good choices as well.

right right...I forgot about that. But can she win an election for them? I honestly don't know....

[JCon]

Just now, Wideleft said:

Except that Trudeau allows other members of his party to speak freely because they're not all a bunch of backwoods idiots.

It took him two months to call a caucus meeting after the election. The MPs are silenced right now. Everything runs through the PMO. It's the Harper playbook. 

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

I'm not sure about that...I think that's giving him too much credit. I honestly don't think he's bright enough to be that powerful (and that's coming from someone who's generally a Trudeau fan). I think JPT is a face, and there's a lot of puppeteers behind the scenes pulling strings. But I would be really interested to know who is currently in the LPC that would be a winner in the next election...

Two words, Gerald Butts.

[Noeller]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Two words, Gerald Butts.

Gerry hasn't worked in the PMO since the 2015 election. It's so weird how Con's think he's still involved. He's been a talking head on TV for the last while....not involved with the LPC at all. 

[JCon]

Just now, GCn20 said:

Two words, Gerald Butts.

Butts has been out for ages. Keep up. 

[GCn20]

3 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Except that Trudeau allows other members of his party to speak freely because they're not all a bunch of backwoods idiots.

Except that no party leader completely allows their MPs to speak freely. There is a party whip in every party and every party since the dawn of party politics controls the message. Those who speak freely do so at their own peril.

[Wideleft]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Completely untrue. A resolution to support the conversion therapy ban was passed with 92% of delegates in favor at the CPC national convention.

Genuis was pissed that it was voted for in his absence (he was in Latvia) and started stirring the pot upon his return.  I would guess a lot of that 92% held their noses when they supported the bill.  The rest like Ted Falk just hate transgenders.

[GCn20]

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

Gerry hasn't worked in the PMO since the 2015 election. It's so weird how Con's think he's still involved. He's been a talking head on TV for the last while....not involved with the LPC at all. 

Not now, but he was the Liberal Guiseppi for a long time. I am sure he has his handpicked heir to the puppet strings.