Canadian Politics

[JCon]

Just now, GCn20 said:

If nothing changes that is a loss for the NDP as well. Things changing for the Liberals is a worse loss. Unless the NDP win the seat this will be a bad day for them. 

This seat was never in play for the NDP and they haven't put money into it. It's a bad day for the NDP if the Liberals win or if the PCs gain votes. 

Otherwise, I assure you, they don't really care. 

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, Tracker said:

I am not sure this is a bellweather byelection for all three parties concerned. Obby shot himself in the foot with his incredibly thoughtless and lame "shoulda, coulda, woulda" comment. Otherwise, he would have been a credible candidate. The riding has been non-NDP both federal and provincial for quite a while, so a Liberal win is the likeliest outcome.  And maybe the most desirable. The PCs will soothe themselves with the thought that at least it didn't go to the NDP, but I can foresee the PCs suffering a massive defeat in the next election, much as the Devine administration did in Saskatchewan.

Polling indicated that the PCs are favored to win the seat. We shall see I guess. Either way I'm fine with it. I am also OK with change on the provincial level, just wish Wab Kinew wasn't the leader. I don't like him and I think in an election campaign he will cost the NDP votes.

Edited March 22, 2022 by GCn20

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It is not the federal governments jurisdiction and it would be a politically boneheaded thing to do.

You should read the Canada Health Act. Feds can withhold funding. 

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-6/page-1.html#docCont

[GCn20]

10 minutes ago, JCon said:

You should read the Canada Health Act. Feds can withhold funding. 

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-6/page-1.html#docCont

Read it and I see no basis for with holding funding for private hospitals or clinics under this act if health care is paid for under a government administrated medicare system.

[Sard]

3 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

Anyone else at least mildly entertained by the childish meltdowns of Murphy Brownshirt et al. on the conservative side in response to this agreement between the LPC and NDP?

And true to form. she recklessly intentionally uses words dogwhistles like socialist and leftist in her vitriolic rhetoric.

I believe the term she used was "backdoor socialism"... as if helping people was a bad thing.

The irony in it all is that this is probably a really good thing for the CPC because it gives them time to get their house in order before the next election.

[blue_gold_84]

17 minutes ago, JCon said:

You should read the Canada Health Act. Feds can withhold funding. 

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-6/page-1.html#docCont

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-6/page-2.html

Quote

Order reducing or withholding contribution

• 15 (1) Where, on the referral of a matter under section 14, the Governor in Council is of the opinion that the health care insurance plan of a province does not or has ceased to satisfy any one of the criteria described in sections 8 to 12 or that a province has failed to comply with any condition set out in section 13, the Governor in Council may, by order,

  • (a) direct that any cash contribution to that province for a fiscal year be reduced, in respect of each default, by an amount that the Governor in Council considers to be appropriate, having regard to the gravity of the default; or

  • (b) where the Governor in Council considers it appropriate, direct that the whole of any cash contribution to that province for a fiscal year be withheld.

[Mark F]

36 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It is not the federal governments jurisdiction and it would be a politically boneheaded thing to do.

This was easy:

"The Canada Health Transfer is the money the federal government sends to the provinces and territories to help pay for health care, which is a provincial responsibility.
Ottawa can use the CHT to enforce the Canada Health Act, although, in practice, it rarely does.

The transfer can be clawed back if a province fails to uphold any of the act's five principles: universality, comprehensiveness, portability, accessibility and public administration."

But as you said... Conservatives dont want to privatise healthcare, even though the minster oF health, ontario, just said, they want to privatise healthcare. 

If sticking up for our universal  healthcare system is "boneheaded", I'm a flying elephant.

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mark F

[Noeller]

It's always wild to me to see actual conservatives/Conservative takes around here....

[Mark F]

I will add, that being a senior, I have been following this war with the people who want for profit healthcare, for most of my adult life.

It will never end.

in the past much of the opposition came from the public, Doctors, nurses, and citizens, including Tommy Douglas daughter, Shirley Douglas, who had to go on a major pr campaign to fight off these efforts to destroy our healthcare system.

Thats fine, but it would also be very welcome to see a firm stand by the Liberals and NDP on this. We shouldnt have to depend on people taking much time out of their lives to do the  elected peoples' job.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mark F

[johnzo]

reading the National Post about the power sharing deal, I see the repeated perpetual grievance that only a third of voters voted for the current government.

NP always forgets the 15% of Canadians who voted for the NDP.  The current Lib + NDP governing coalition received support from just a smidge over 50% of Canadians, which makes it more democratically "legitimate" than almost all Canadian majority governments of my lifetime -- the Chretien, Harper, and second Mulroney majorities were all at about 40% of the popular vote, and the only majority parliament in my lifetime that also had a voting majority was the 1984 Mulroney majority, which won 50.1%.

[johnzo]

50 minutes ago, Sard said:

I believe the term she used was "backdoor socialism"... as if helping people was a bad thing.

The irony in it all is that this is probably a really good thing for the CPC because it gives them time to get their house in order before the next election.

 

Also this is pretty funny:

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2022/03/conservatives-warn-liberal-ndp-deal-is-backdoor-socialism-handjob-democracy-and-salad-tossing-representation/

lol "over-the-jeans leftism"

[Noeller]

also loved this: 
 

 

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, johnzo said:

reading the National Post about the power sharing deal, I see the repeated perpetual grievance that only a third of voters voted for the current government.

And that is going to continue.  The current approach from Bergen, Polliviere, peek a boo Bezan, et. al. will just increase their vote count in ridings they are already winning

Add another 10 000 CPC votes in Selkirk Interlake Eastman or Portage Lisgar...while the Liberals will win the key swing ridings in Winnipeg

Same thing...across most of the country. 

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, Mark H. said:

And that is going to continue.  The current approach from Bergen, Polliviere, peek a boo Bezan, et. al. will just increase their vote count in ridings they are already winning

Add another 10 000 CPC votes in Selkirk Interlake Eastman or Portage Lisgar...while the Liberals will win the key swing ridings in Winnipeg

Same thing...across most of the country. 

The right wing has swallowed the Trump brand of politics hook, line and sinker. The nature of democracy is that the majority of voters will determine government policies. The alternative? Look at Russia or the type of America Trump fantasizes over where a small, militant percentage of people, not necessarily even voted for, do whatever the hell they want., and get drunk on power.

[HardCoreBlue]

30 minutes ago, Tracker said:

The right wing has swallowed the Trump brand of politics hook, line and sinker. The nature of democracy is that the majority of voters will determine government policies. The alternative? Look at Russia or the type of America Trump fantasizes over where a small, militant percentage of people, not necessarily even voted for, do whatever the hell they want., and get drunk on power.

Followed by adopting democracy whatever losing is not an option, ie everything is rigged if my guy doesn’t easily win and how does one best suppress the vote so other people who don’t look and think like me will have a difficult time voting. 

[Mark H.]

42 minutes ago, Tracker said:

The right wing has swallowed the Trump brand of politics hook, line and sinker. The nature of democracy is that the majority of voters will determine government policies. The alternative? Look at Russia or the type of America Trump fantasizes over where a small, militant percentage of people, not necessarily even voted for, do whatever the hell they want., and get drunk on power.

I just don't know how they can't realize that it won't win them a Canadian election - not even a minority.  With past CPC regimes, Trudeau's image/issues would be a clear path to victory.  

[Noeller]

6 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

I just don't know how they can't realize that it won't win them a Canadian election - not even a minority.  

They truly believe they are the majority and the only reason they're not winning elections is shenanigans.... Cheating.... It wss rigged.... We actually won but conspiracies..... Etc. 

[Tracker]

16 minutes ago, Noeller said:

They truly believe they are the majority and the only reason they're not winning elections is shenanigans.... Cheating.... It was rigged.... We actually won but conspiracies..... Etc. 

When your thinking becomes so distorted that you are unwilling to accept that you do not have a divine right to rule as you see fit, that necessitates any evidence or logic to the contrary becomes heretical in your view and must be either ignored or attacked. Essentially, they are saying that they do not accept democratic outcomes unless if is in their favour. And that is autocratic thinking.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Fort Whyte Election Results

PC 3027

LIB 2830

As is always the case, the advance votes did Reeves in.

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by FrostyWinnipeg

[TrueBlue4ever]

10 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

Fort Whyte Election Results 50/56 polls in.

PC 1698

LIB 1699

 

Looks like it’s headed for a re-count either way. 

[bigg jay]

1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

Looks like it’s headed for a re-count either way. 

Nope, only need to win by more than 50 votes.   Obby cleaned up on the advanced/mail in ballots and wins by just under 200 votes.

[Mark H.]

7 hours ago, bigg jay said:

Nope, only need to win by more than 50 votes.   Obby cleaned up on the advanced/mail in ballots and wins by just under 200 votes.

That is a tight race in what is supposed to be a safe right wing riding.  

[rebusrankin]

Disappointed Obbywon. Still that is really tight for a historically safe PC riding.

[GCn20]

16 hours ago, Mark F said:

This was easy:

"The Canada Health Transfer is the money the federal government sends to the provinces and territories to help pay for health care, which is a provincial responsibility.
Ottawa can use the CHT to enforce the Canada Health Act, although, in practice, it rarely does.

The transfer can be clawed back if a province fails to uphold any of the act's five principles: universality, comprehensiveness, portability, accessibility and public administration."

But as you said... Conservatives dont want to privatise healthcare, even though the minster oF health, ontario, just said, they want to privatise healthcare. 

If sticking up for our universal  healthcare system is "boneheaded", I'm a flying elephant.

 

Privatizing health care by definition of the act you are quoting applies only to privatizing medicare. It makes no mention at all of allowing private enterprise into the existing framework. You need to read more than a few sentences of something before drawing a conclusion. The public administration part has nothing to do with how the health care is provided, it is about how it is paid and how that payment is administered. Please explain to me how under a medicare system of payment a private clinic, or hospital threatens universal health care. It doesn't. As long as access remains equal to all under the current medicare program I am not sure what anyone's objection is to a private hospital other than banging the drum of union politics. I challenge you to back up your claim that the minister of health said they want to privatize health care. You are making a lofty, and unfounded, conclusion with no basis in fact. Allowing private clinics and hospitals IS NOT privatizing health care. This is boogeyman union politics.

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/2022/03/17/privatization-of-health-care-claims-are-categorically-false-ministers-spokesperson-says.html

15 hours ago, johnzo said:

reading the National Post about the power sharing deal, I see the repeated perpetual grievance that only a third of voters voted for the current government.

NP always forgets the 15% of Canadians who voted for the NDP.  The current Lib + NDP governing coalition received support from just a smidge over 50% of Canadians, which makes it more democratically "legitimate" than almost all Canadian majority governments of my lifetime -- the Chretien, Harper, and second Mulroney majorities were all at about 40% of the popular vote, and the only majority parliament in my lifetime that also had a voting majority was the 1984 Mulroney majority, which won 50.1%.

Their combined support is less than 50%. Not sure what numbers you are going off of.  At any rate, I don't see the issue either. Whether they formalize and agreement or not, the NDP has been propping up the Liberals for the better part of 3 years now and nothing was going to change. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by GCn20

[GCn20]

16 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-6/page-2.html

That's all fine and good but read the act as to what constitutes a violation of these terms. Private clinics and hospitals do not unless they operate outside the Futures of Medicare provision of the act.