Canadian Politics

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Funny (??) story: They (UCP) actually got rid of an NDP tax credit to entice tech companies to move there. I've read stories of at least 2 different companies that were going to set up shop in Calgary (and help a downtown that is a ghost town, thanks to O/G companies taking money and then moving their office to Houston) and decided not to, because they felt the government was against new tech. It's just wild....they really think oil is going to be around forever and there is zero back up plan for when it's not.

Whoever is the next premier of Alberta better come up with some kind of strategy because an entire province operating on one industry could be a disaster for the entire country. Right now Alberta desperately needs another oil boom or to diversify. It may need both. An oil boom to provide enough time for diversification. The problem with Alberta's scenario is businesses don't tend to want to come to NDP led provinces without massive incentives to do so.

[17to85]

Alberta is more diverse than people think. Just because oil and gas was ridiculously big doesn't change that. Ucp reversed a lot of the work the ndp did to further those aims but you can't totally stop it. Calgary is the 4th largest city in the country now I believe, alberts has been creeping up on BC in population too. That alone brings with it economic diversity. Everything else just gets compared to the juggernaut that is oil and gas.

[GCn20]

42 minutes ago, WildPath said:

I agree to some extent, but I also think they influence beliefs of people rather than just reflect the beliefs of people. When people see our official opposition saying things like 'dictator' I'm worried more people will think that is a credible belief.

I'd like nothing more to see the party crash and burn, but I think they are doing a lot of damage along the way. Trumpism in the United States made anti-democracy and racism acceptable, I'm worried we may be going down that path thanks to a spineless CPC party and populists like Pollievre.

The issue is that there is no more moderation in politics and it alienates a lot of people. The right has swung strongly to the right, the left has swung strongly to the left, and neither of these are good scenarios so it all becomes a toss up of who can win the war of words. Neither side is particularly strong on policy that makes much sense so sensationalism, finger pointing, and dog whistle politics is all we get now.

[GCn20]

15 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Alberta is more diverse than people think. Just because oil and gas was ridiculously big doesn't change that. Ucp reversed a lot of the work the ndp did to further those aims but you can't totally stop it. Calgary is the 4th largest city in the country now I believe, alberts has been creeping up on BC in population too. That alone brings with it economic diversity. Everything else just gets compared to the juggernaut that is oil and gas.

Calgary is the 4th largest city BECAUSE of the oil patch. Alberta is creeping up on BC because of the oil patch. Both Calgary and Alberta has seen population and business levels decline since the oil patch slowed down. They go part and parcel. Alberta is not as resilient as you think. Losing oil will be a blow to that economy. No one is suggesting that Alberta will become a ghost town or anything, but it would be foolish to think that a replacement for even a fraction of the oil industry's economic power in the province is easily recovered. Alberta's population rate has been slowing quarter over quarter for the past several years and is half of what is was 10 years ago. Wait and see what happens when provincial governments have to start taxing to pay the bills. 

https://financialpost.com/opinion/jack-mintz-will-alberta-become-a-have-not-province-if-it-loses-oil-and-gas#:~:text=As the table shows%2C without,Alberta would become much poorer.

 

Of course, the above article is only valid if the province does nothing to diversify however that was my original point. The UPC or NDP or whatever incarnation of a party is in power desperately needs to start working now on a future for Alberta that is not almost completely reliant on oil keeping it from being a have not province.

Edited March 30, 2022 by GCn20

[Bigblue204]

23 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The issue is that there is no more moderation in politics and it alienates a lot of people. The right has swung strongly to the right, the left has swung strongly to the left, and neither of these are good scenarios so it all becomes a toss up of who can win the war of words. Neither side is particularly strong on policy that makes much sense so sensationalism, finger pointing, and dog whistle politics is all we get now.

That's not true at all.

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

That's not true at all.

Not even close. 

[Mark H.]

33 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The issue is that there is no more moderation in politics and it alienates a lot of people. The right has swung strongly to the right, the left has swung strongly to the left, and neither of these are good scenarios so it all becomes a toss up of who can win the war of words. Neither side is particularly strong on policy that makes much sense so sensationalism, finger pointing, and dog whistle politics is all we get now.

 

10 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

That's not true at all.

 

6 minutes ago, JCon said:

Not even close. 

The left CAMPAIGNS on the left, but then governs very much towards the centre, and even on the right

I would argue that the Mulroney Conservatives, with their introduction of new taxes, were more to the left than most Liberal governments have been

 

[17to85]

52 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Calgary is the 4th largest city BECAUSE of the oil patch. Alberta is creeping up on BC because of the oil patch. Both Calgary and Alberta has seen population and business levels decline since the oil patch slowed down. They go part and parcel. Alberta is not as resilient as you think. Losing oil will be a blow to that economy. No one is suggesting that Alberta will become a ghost town or anything, but it would be foolish to think that a replacement for even a fraction of the oil industry's economic power in the province is easily recovered. Alberta's population rate has been slowing quarter over quarter for the past several years and is half of what is was 10 years ago. Wait and see what happens when provincial governments have to start taxing to pay the bills. 

https://financialpost.com/opinion/jack-mintz-will-alberta-become-a-have-not-province-if-it-loses-oil-and-gas#:~:text=As the table shows%2C without,Alberta would become much poorer.

 

Of course, the above article is only valid if the province does nothing to diversify however that was my original point. The UPC or NDP or whatever incarnation of a party is in power desperately needs to start working now on a future for Alberta that is not almost completely reliant on oil keeping it from being a have not province.

Of course it was a boom that spurred the population growth, but that doesn't change those people being here now spurring some diversification.  No one is saying the province can just replace oil and gas with no shrinkage in economy, but alberta is not going to find itself as a nothing province without another boom. Lemme tell you the oil and gas industry has been a ******* ghost town the last 7 years and Alberta hasn't collapsed. 

 

Oil and gas is just an enormous thing that skewed perspectives.

[Mark F]

45 minutes ago, JCon said:

Not even close. 

The entire country has shifted right. Remember "red tories" ?

there is no such thing now. People here are saying jason kenney is the normal person in that party. Good god.

The Conservatives are now john birch /Alex Jones right wing crackpots, the NDP now would have been centre right in the past.

The NDP in British Columbia is promoting LNG gas, logging old growth, beating up, pepper spraying protesters, 

and

"RE: Call to action to call BC Timber Sales at 604-702-5700 and call for 60-day extension of consultation for a five-year Pest Management Plan including herbicide spraying in the South Coast forestry covering Squamish to Hope

We find it unbelievable in this day and age of carbon credits, environmental toxin awareness, greenhouse emissions, air quality indexes, and awareness of the historical effects of herbicide spraying both to the ecosystem and humans, that a government is planning a mass forestry herbicide spraying against native plants.."

 

Probably not as bad as what came before them, but hardly what once was left wing.

really, everything is going the wrong way, world wide.

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mark F

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

 The right has swung strongly to the right, the left has swung strongly to the left, 

 

How do you figure? What data, metric or policy changes are you using to come to this conclusion?

Genuinely curious, because I am often a victim of my own confirmation bias.

Edited March 30, 2022 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Of course, the above article is only valid if the province does nothing to diversify however that was my original point.

Good article thanks.

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

The entire country has shifted right. Remember "red tories" ?

there is no such thing now. People here are saying jason kenney is the normal person in that party. Good god.

The Conservatives are now john birch /Alex Jones right wing crackpots, the NDP now would have been centre right in the past.

The NDP in British Columbia is promoting LNG gas, logging old growth, beating up, pepper spraying protesters, 

and

"RE: Call to action to call BC Timber Sales at 604-702-5700 and call for 60-day extension of consultation for a five-year Pest Management Plan including herbicide spraying in the South Coast forestry covering Squamish to Hope

We find it unbelievable in this day and age of carbon credits, environmental toxin awareness, greenhouse emissions, air quality indexes, and awareness of the historical effects of herbicide spraying both to the ecosystem and humans, that a government is planning a mass forestry herbicide spraying against native plants.."

 

Probably not as bad as what came before them, but hardly what once was left wing.

really, everything is going the wrong way, world wide.

 

The colour of a governing parties flag matters not, once elected they are all beholden to the large corporate stakeholders that sustain industry and create employment within their jurisdiction.  For the most part the Horgan NDP govt. has done a good job over the last few years, managing the economy, handling Covid and avoiding scandals.   If Horgan ever decided not to do the biding of the forestry industry in BC, he would chance being found dead in a ditch shortly afterward.

[WildPath]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

The entire country has shifted right. Remember "red tories" ?

there is no such thing now. People here are saying jason kenney is the normal person in that party. Good god.

The Conservatives are now john birch /Alex Jones right wing crackpots, the NDP now would have been centre right in the past.

The NDP in British Columbia is promoting LNG gas, logging old growth, beating up, pepper spraying protesters, 

and

"RE: Call to action to call BC Timber Sales at 604-702-5700 and call for 60-day extension of consultation for a five-year Pest Management Plan including herbicide spraying in the South Coast forestry covering Squamish to Hope

We find it unbelievable in this day and age of carbon credits, environmental toxin awareness, greenhouse emissions, air quality indexes, and awareness of the historical effects of herbicide spraying both to the ecosystem and humans, that a government is planning a mass forestry herbicide spraying against native plants.."

 

Probably not as bad as what came before them, but hardly what once was left wing.

really, everything is going the wrong way, world wide.

 

Side note - Strong recommendation for 'Finding the Mother Tree' by Suzanne Simard for insight into how forests should be managed and some fascinating info on trees communicating with one another. Sounds out there, but I am somewhat in the field and its not. But it is a compelling read.

Also, the left in Canada becoming the radical left was my laugh of the day. Another example of how beliefs espoused by politicians can become accepted as fact.

[Bigblue204]

1 minute ago, WildPath said:

Side note - Strong recommendation for 'Finding the Mother Tree' by Suzanne Simard for insight into how forests should be managed and some fascinating info on trees communicating with one another. Sounds out there, but I am somewhat in the field and its not. But it is a compelling read.

Also, the left in Canada becoming the radical left was my laugh of the day. Another example of how beliefs espoused by politicians can become accepted as fact.

mycelium is an extremely interesting subject.

[rebusrankin]

Any thought on Ole Pierre P aka PP wanting to make Canada the cypto capital of the world?

[blue_gold_84]

4 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Any thought on Ole Pierre P aka PP wanting to make Canada the cypto capital of the world?

 

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, Fatty Liver said:

Horgan NDP govt. has done a good job over the last few years, managing the economy,

1. Total number of bc hydro ev charging stations...The BC Hydro EV network currently has over 70 fast charging stations across B.C.

two and one half hour wait time to access them in Hope (I think) last summer. Pretty bad job. Really, no excuse for this.

 

2. complete failure:

 facing Ten years to avert the worst of  climate change.... he does this:

 

"When in opposition in 2016, current Environment Minister George Heyman surely had it right: "We are creating significant environmental catastrophe, significant health issues and we are going to cost the economy of this province, this nation and the world billions of unnecessary dollars." 

But now in office, to praise from corporate media pundits, Premier Horgan has embraced LNG Canada. Economist Marc Lee says that overall, the current B.C. government "has offered a much sweeter deal to the LNG industry than what the previous (Liberal) government was willing to extend." The sweeteners include discounted electricity prices, exemptions from increases in the B.C. carbon tax, a corporate income tax break and deferral of provincial sales tax on construction. Yet the likely contribution of LNG revenues to public coffers over 40 years "will not be huge."

might as well have Harper.

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mark F

[JCon]

54 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

 

PP loves money laundering, tax evasion and volatile commodities. 

[rebusrankin]

What's scary is he was on a podcast with a crypto proponent who also thinks the following:

• COVID-19 isn’t really real. Instead, “COVID is a government diversion strategy.”
• COVID is “mass formation psychosis.”
• “Hitler would not be a household name if (government-issued) currency never existed … he used fiat currency to fund the blitzkrieg.”
• The World Economic Forum is comparable to “the former Nazi death camp Auschwitz.”
• “Central banking is an institution of slavery. Burn. It The. F***. Down.”

 

Guy is a loon. Oh and somebody needs to tell the dumbass that he's not running for Prime Minister, he's running for leadership of a political party. 

[WildPath]

3 hours ago, JCon said:

PP loves money laundering, tax evasion and volatile commodities. 

Salvadoran President Bukele's Latest Bitcoin Venture Is Another Distraction (foreignpolicy.com)

Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele’s experiment in making Bitcoin an official national currency alongside the U.S. dollar, which has been the currency since 2001, has not gone well. But when a con artist’s grift starts to fall apart, he knows to move onto the next one fast. The same goes for fast-talking presidents.

[JCon]

11 hours ago, WildPath said:

Salvadoran President Bukele's Latest Bitcoin Venture Is Another Distraction (foreignpolicy.com)

Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele’s experiment in making Bitcoin an official national currency alongside the U.S. dollar, which has been the currency since 2001, has not gone well. But when a con artist’s grift starts to fall apart, he knows to move onto the next one fast. The same goes for fast-talking presidents.

Bitcoin is not a currency, it's a commodity. It's a pyramid scheme with a huge environmental footprint. Sooner we end this experiment, the better. 

[GCn20]

18 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

That's not true at all.

It absolutely is true. The problem is that whenever someone swings in right/left fashion they tend to move the goal posts of what moderation is along with them. It would be insane to suggest that society in general hasn't moved sharply to the left in the past 20 years and politicians have picked right up on it. They aren't stupid. We have the Federal Liberal party occupying the space that the NDP once held and abandoning the middle, while the NDP largely are content to share that space not knowing what to do next. Justin Trudeau is easily the most left of centre prime minister in the history of Canada. I'm not judging the spectrum, just pointing out that there has been a huge shift.

16 hours ago, WildPath said:

Side note - Strong recommendation for 'Finding the Mother Tree' by Suzanne Simard for insight into how forests should be managed and some fascinating info on trees communicating with one another. Sounds out there, but I am somewhat in the field and its not. But it is a compelling read.

Also, the left in Canada becoming the radical left was my laugh of the day. Another example of how beliefs espoused by politicians can become accepted as fact.

Who said the left has become radical? I stated both the right and left have swung away from the middle. I think there is a massive chunk of voters who still reside in the middle of the political spectrum and the party that can swing back to the middle will be the one that will have future success. If Jean Charest is able to convince the small C conservatives to take back the party from the Reformers the Liberals will have to take a good hard look at their leadership and their sharp move to the left of the spectrum. If Pollievre wins, it remains a polarized **** show.

Edited March 31, 2022 by GCn20

[Sard]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

Bitcoin is not a currency, it's a commodity. It's a pyramid scheme with a huge environmental footprint. Sooner we end this experiment, the better. 

Is it even a commodity though?  There's nothing tangible to it, it's literally just a bunch of electronic ones and zeros.

[JCon]

1 minute ago, Sard said:

Is it even a commodity though?  There's nothing tangible to it, it's literally just a bunch of electronic ones and zeros.

It is a commodity in the sense that you're buying that string of ones and zeros. It's value is zero until someone wants that string of ones and zeros. 

[MOBomberFan]

Just now, Sard said:

Is it even a commodity though?  There's nothing tangible to it, it's literally just a bunch of electronic ones and zeros.

I would sooner invest in healing crystals and co-ownership of the Brooklyn Bridge