Canadian Politics

[GCn20]

21 hours ago, Tracker said:

Good, but not good enough. In our country, few need to own firearms whose sole designed intent is to kill people.  This doesn't need to be the sole plank of a election platform, but an important one.

Any firearm will kill a person depending on the intent of the user. I agree completely that automatic weapons and handguns should receive a banning because they serve no practical purpose. However, of equal importance is keeping hunting and recreational weapons out of the hands of criminals while allowing for their proper use as well. 

20 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

It's obviously not their only policy, but it is a policy many people would approve of if they attempted to implement it.  I can't think of a single valid reason to own a handgun.

I agree. Handguns have no place in our society. That being said, a good 3d printer and you have yourself a hand gun. Gotta make gun related crime punishment so severe that a lot of the criminals will not risk it. 

[Tracker]

44 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Any firearm will kill a person depending on the intent of the user. I agree completely that automatic weapons and handguns should receive a banning because they serve no practical purpose. However, of equal importance is keeping hunting and recreational weapons out of the hands of criminals while allowing for their proper use as well. 

I agree. Handguns have no place in our society. That being said, a good 3d printer and you have yourself a hand gun. Gotta make gun related crime punishment so severe that a lot of the criminals will not risk it. 

Severe punishment are only a temporary deterrent at best. At one time people (including children) were hanged for stealing or had one hand cut off, but that changed nothing. I have worked with offenders and none were ever deterred by the threat of consequences- they either did not think they would get caught or didn't give a damn due to being in the grip of a psychosis or in such emotional turmoil that they felt compelled to what they did.

The US has the highest percentage of incarcerated people in the world but still has one of the highest incidences of violent crime. The roots of crime are in poverty, childhood abuse/neglect, addiction, lack of education (and hope for a decent future) and mental illness. Unless we deal with the root causes, we will still be having this discussion 50 years from now.

Most criminals are not all that different than you or me, but at some point in their lives, their life experiences caused them to turn left instead of right.

[Bigblue204]

22 hours ago, Tracker said:

I do not think I am alone in believing that people-killing firearms ought to be banned altogether, but absolutely in the minority. However, this is a discussion that needs to happen and needs to begins somewhere and sometime soon. Sometimes, these discussions plant seeds that take a while to grow to fruition.

I agree. Right after everyone has clean water/shelter/food and quality education. Then I'm all for talking about a useless attempt to ban hand guns.

[TrueBlue4ever]

4 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I agree. Right after everyone has clean water/shelter/food and quality education. Then I'm all for talking about a useless attempt to ban hand guns.

The “if we can’t fix everything then we shouldn’t do anything”argument is the cheapest kind of cop out. I’’m all for water/food/shelter improvements, but there is no need to pass the buck on firearm bans and wait until those problems are fixed before tackling this one. 

[Bigblue204]

Just now, TrueBlue4ever said:

The “if we can’t fix everything then we shouldn’t do anything”argument is the cheapest kind of cop out. I’’m all for water/food/shelter improvements, but there is no need to pass the buck on firearm bans and wait until those problems are fixed before tackling this one. 

I'd agree if I thought banning hand guns was going to do anything at all. Guns are available to anyone who wants them now. Banning isn't going to stop anything especially in provinces located near some of the most dangerous cities in America. It's a pipe dream and bordering on a waste of time. Talk about it...sure why not. But lets focus on something that we can actually do to improve the lives of people in this country.

[blue_gold_84]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-truck-tax-budget-climate-guilbeault-1.6423519

Quote

Conservatives have never had a hard time finding actual things to condemn about Justin Trudeau and his government. So it's passing strange to see them put so much energy into condemning a policy the Liberals have neither implemented nor proposed.

What the Conservatives describe as a "truck tax" does not exist. No Liberal minister is known to have expressed an interest in implementing such a policy.

The source for the claim appears to be one of more than three dozen recommendations included in a recent report by the Net-Zero Advisory Body, an independent panel of experts created by the Liberal government's Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act.

One of those recommendations — intended to accelerate the adoption of zero-emission vehicles — calls on the federal government to "broaden Canada's existing Green Levy (Excise Tax) for Fuel Inefficient Vehicles to include additional [internal combustion engine] vehicle types, such as pickup trucks."

That suggestion didn't generate much interest when the NZAB report was released on March 21. But when Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault released his government's new climate plan on March 29, the NZAB's advice was included as an annex...

That appears to have inspired the British Columbia director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation — an interest group that opposes tax increases and advocates for lower government spending — to write a column for the Toronto Sun that claimed the Liberals were "planning to hit Canadians with a big new tax on their trucks and sport utility vehicles." (https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/sims-trudeau-is-planning-a-tax-on-trucks)

The next day, the Conservative Party sent out a fundraising appeal to its members based on that column. Conservative leadership candidate Pierre Poilievre, Alberta Premier Jason Kenney and Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe all tweeted their condemnation.

On Monday, the party repeated its call for donations: "Donate today to help strengthen our movement and defeat Trudeau's Truck Tax!"

Guilbeault has described the Conservative claims as "disinformation" and "divisive." 

"A recommendation by an independent body in a report is not government policy," he tweeted.

"The government has no plans at all to act on that recommendation," Guilbeault said in a media statement.

Unless someone produces new evidence to the contrary, that seems fairly categorical.

(Ironically, the existing excise tax that the NZAB recommends expanding — a levy on inefficient vehicles — was implemented by Stephen Harper's Conservative government in 2007. Poilievre was a parliamentary secretary for that government at the time. Kenney was a secretary of state.)

[Mark F]

@blue_gold_84This will get much worse.

Trump method. Boris Johnson method.  Oil company disinformation method.

seems to work.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Mark F

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

@blue_gold_84This will get much worse.

Trump method. Boris Johnson method.  Oil company disinformation method.

seems to work.

It's something that will rile up their rural core supporters incredibly well. 

Keep em angry and frothing at the mouth with no time to think. Not that any of them are prone to thinking anyway. 

[GCn20]

2 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

I'd agree if I thought banning hand guns was going to do anything at all. Guns are available to anyone who wants them now. Banning isn't going to stop anything especially in provinces located near some of the most dangerous cities in America. It's a pipe dream and bordering on a waste of time. Talk about it...sure why not. But lets focus on something that we can actually do to improve the lives of people in this country.

The thing is whenever anyone talks about banning handguns and assault rifles is that with a hacksaw and 5 minutes I can turn any hunting rifle into a concealed and fully automatic firearm, and any shotgun into a concealed and extremely deadly weapon so unless you are talking about a full firearm ban you are simply making life about 5 minutes more inconvenient for criminals who wish to arm themselves. So ban handguns and assault rifles but it really isn't going to make much of a difference other than a false sense of security. There is no magic bullet to solving gun crime without taking the guns away from law abiding hunters/recreational shooters as well....and the criminals will just find another way to arm themselves on the black market.

In this regard, I agree with your sentiments about it being a waste of time. A noble one...but a waste of time nonetheless unless you want to take ALL guns away and that is a surefire way to be sitting in opposition.

Edited April 20, 2022 by GCn20

[WildPath]

39 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It's something that will rile up their rural core supporters incredibly well. 

Keep em angry and frothing at the mouth with no time to think. Not that any of them are prone to thinking anyway. 

Until politicians pay a political price (losing votes) for outright lies, this will continue to be a main part of election campaigns. It shows that leadership has a very low opinion the intelligence of those who support the party.

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The thing is whenever anyone talks about banning handguns and assault rifles is that with a hacksaw and 5 minutes I can turn any hunting rifle into a concealed and fully automatic firearm, and any shotgun into a concealed and extremely deadly weapon so unless you are talking about a full firearm ban you are simply making life about 5 minutes more inconvenient for criminals who wish to arm themselves. So ban handguns and assault rifles but it really isn't going to make much of a difference other than a false sense of security. There is no magic bullet to solving gun crime without taking the guns away from law abiding hunters/recreational shooters as well.

The US has a much tougher justice system with a more "tough on crime" stance than Canada. Why is there so much more gun crime in the US?

Also, I own a few hunting rifles myself. I'd be interested, and very skeptical, that you could turn my hunting rifles into fully automatic firearms.

[GCn20]

4 minutes ago, WildPath said:

Until politicians pay a political price (losing votes) for outright lies, this will continue to be a main part of election campaigns. It shows that leadership has a very low opinion the intelligence of those who support the party.

The US has a much tougher justice system with a more "tough on crime" stance than Canada. Why is there so much more gun crime in the US?

Also, I own a few hunting rifles myself. I'd be interested, and very skeptical, that you could turn my hunting rifles into fully automatic firearms.

I could make any rifle manufactured before 1985 that is semi auto fully automatic in literally five minutes with a file. Anyone can...google it and you will see.  Any other rifle can be done as well but is a bit trickier.

Edited April 20, 2022 by GCn20

[WildPath]

Just now, GCn20 said:

I could make any semi-auto fully automatic in literally five minutes with a file. Anyone can...google it and you will see.

Fortunately most hunting rifles are not semi-auto. Something the average non-gun owning person may not realize. In fact, semi-automatic rifles are already restricted in Canada and most gun owners are not allowed to possess restricted firearms. That's a pretty big stretch to go from making any hunting rifle into a fully automatic weapon which was your original claim.

Additionally, making modifications such as you suggested (which is definitely not possible with MOST hunting rifles) would make the firearms illegal.

17 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

There is no magic bullet to solving gun crime without taking the guns away from law abiding hunters/recreational shooters as well

By already restricting/limiting access to firearms there has been some of this going on. Hunters are allowed perfectly good firearms to use for hunting, but not allowed access to significantly more dangerous weapons. There are also programs in place to require firearms owners to attend training, additional training and background checks are done in an imperfect attempt to prevent restricted firearms from getting into the hands of those most likely to use them to cause harm to others.

[Bigblue204]

25 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The thing is whenever anyone talks about banning handguns and assault rifles is that with a hacksaw and 5 minutes I can turn any hunting rifle into a concealed and fully automatic firearm, and any shotgun into a concealed and extremely deadly weapon so unless you are talking about a full firearm ban you are simply making life about 5 minutes more inconvenient for criminals who wish to arm themselves. So ban handguns and assault rifles but it really isn't going to make much of a difference other than a false sense of security. There is no magic bullet to solving gun crime without taking the guns away from law abiding hunters/recreational shooters as well....and the criminals will just find another way to arm themselves on the black market.

In this regard, I agree with your sentiments about it being a waste of time. A noble one...but a waste of time nonetheless unless you want to take ALL guns away and that is a surefire way to be sitting in opposition.

Yeah banning guns makes sense on the surface. No guns. no gun crimes. Until you realize that most gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns. People don't go to Cabela's to get a gun they're gonna use to hold up a store or shoot a rival gang member with. Criminals using guns will find guns. And there just isn't a way to get all the guns out of our country now...which is mostly due to us being neighbors with the...youknowwho...(points down south). So it's a fair conversation to have...but not one I'd ever want to take up considerable time in our politics. We need to go after the root of the problem.

When I was a younger man, I knew multiple illegal ways to get a gun if needed. I'm assuming this has only gotten easier.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Bigblue204

[Mark H.]

6 hours ago, GCn20 said:

We have some big issues in Thompson with our education system. RD Parker collegiate has an attend and you will graduate policy in place just to try and get kids to attend. It's a mess. It is also one of the most well funded school division in the province. Sometimes problems go beyond funding models. The money is there. 

Yes, salaries in Thompson are significantly higher than they are elsewhere - that would be where a large chunk of the funding is going

My understanding is that stems from having a negotiations friendly board, who were formerly union members when they worked in the mines

[WildPath]

54 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Yes, salaries in Thompson are significantly higher than they are elsewhere - that would be where a large chunk of the funding is going

My understanding is that stems from having a negotiations friendly board, who were formerly union members when they worked in the mines

As GCn20 already pointed out, many of the communities are very low income and have a range of social issues. Unfortunately socioeconomic concerns come to school with the students. Significantly higher expenses for resource and special needs (despite demands still being met at much lower rates than in Southern MB). Having a majority of students below grade level also makes it much more difficult for even grade-level students to have their educational needs met. Even with higher funding, it still doesn't meet the needs. I doubt even twice the funding would fix the education gap.

[Tracker]

5 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-truck-tax-budget-climate-guilbeault-1.6423519

Tilting at windmills is much safer than tilting at real menaces.

[do or die]

20 hours ago, 17to85 said:

It's something that will rile up their rural core supporters incredibly well. 

Keep em angry and frothing at the mouth with no time to think. Not that any of them are prone to thinking anyway. 

Keeping people angry and "engaged" is a staple of right wing populists....

[TrueBlue4ever]

So some random humour for the thread. “Mulhouse” is trending on Twitter and I clicked to see why:

 

[Tracker]

21 hours ago, Bigblue204 said:

Yeah banning guns makes sense on the surface. No guns. no gun crimes. Until you realize that most gun crimes are committed with illegally obtained guns. People don't go to Cabela's to get a gun they're gonna use to hold up a store or shoot a rival gang member with. Criminals using guns will find guns. And there just isn't a way to get all the guns out of our country now...which is mostly due to us being neighbors with the...youknowwho...(points down south). So it's a fair conversation to have...but not one I'd ever want to take up considerable time in our politics. We need to go after the root of the problem.

When I was a younger man, I knew multiple illegal ways to get a gun if needed. I'm assuming this has only gotten easier.

This is not a binary question. Banning people-killing guns is part of what needs to be done, but other measures need to take place as well. Banning the people-killing guns would begin a cultural change, and so would showing more gore on TV and in the movies.

[GCn20]

21 hours ago, WildPath said:

Fortunately most hunting rifles are not semi-auto. Something the average non-gun owning person may not realize. In fact, semi-automatic rifles are already restricted in Canada and most gun owners are not allowed to possess restricted firearms. That's a pretty big stretch to go from making any hunting rifle into a fully automatic weapon which was your original claim.

Additionally, making modifications such as you suggested (which is definitely not possible with MOST hunting rifles) would make the firearms illegal.

By already restricting/limiting access to firearms there has been some of this going on. Hunters are allowed perfectly good firearms to use for hunting, but not allowed access to significantly more dangerous weapons. There are also programs in place to require firearms owners to attend training, additional training and background checks are done in an imperfect attempt to prevent restricted firearms from getting into the hands of those most likely to use them to cause harm to others.

I own 5 hunting rifles/shotguns...all semi automatic. Not sure why you think there are no semi auto hunting rifles? Literally tons of them. The only non semi-autos are bolt actions and the very rare lever or pump actions. No offense, but you are sounding like someone who doesn't know much about guns. Shotguns sold today are literally almost all semi auto, nobody wants pump action or double barrell anymore and yes modifying them makes them illegal...duh...the criminals aren't really worried about that are they?

Edited April 21, 2022 by GCn20

[GCn20]

36 minutes ago, Tracker said:

This is not a binary question. Banning people-killing guns is part of what needs to be done, but other measures need to take place as well. Banning the people-killing guns would begin a cultural change, and so would showing more gore on TV and in the movies.

All guns are people killing guns. Need to change the narrative that an automatic weapon is more dangerous than a bolt action. Completely untrue.

[Bigblue204]

36 minutes ago, Tracker said:

This is not a binary question. Banning people-killing guns is part of what needs to be done, but other measures need to take place as well. Banning the people-killing guns would begin a cultural change, and so would showing more gore on TV and in the movies.

I'm not saying it doesn't need to be done. I'm saying doing it now before you get to the root of the problem is a waste. It won't do anything except, take away from the issues causing crime in the 1st place and doing absolutely nothing to stop those who want guns (for criminal activity) from getting them.

22 hours ago, WildPath said:

Additionally, making modifications such as you suggested (which is definitely not possible with MOST hunting rifles) would make the firearms illegal.

I'm not sure why people continue to think this matters to those using it for crime....?

[HardCoreBlue]

2 hours ago, do or die said:

Keeping people angry and "engaged" is a staple of right wing populists....

'If you're not angry you're not listening'.

The 64 dollar question is when is this a legitimate statement to use and when is it being used to gaslight and manipulate vulnerable people to part with their money and critical thinking.

[Tracker]

13 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

All guns are people killing guns. Need to change the narrative that an automatic weapon is more dangerous than a bolt action. Completely untrue.

Wow. I cannot follow your thinking at all.

[Sard]

28 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

All guns are people killing guns. Need to change the narrative that an automatic weapon is more dangerous than a bolt action. Completely untrue.

They are more dangerous in the sense that they can do a lot more damage a lot more quickly.