Canadian Politics

[Arnold_Palmer]

Just now, rebusrankin said:

A manager for $13/hr? Cheap SOB.

Wow that’s pathetic if true. Retail companies who don’t invest in their management are short sighted because you really get what you pay for. 

[JCon]

3 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

A manager for $13/hr? Cheap SOB.

Yup. 

https://www.glassdoor.ca/job-listing/retail-manager-goodlocal-JV_IC2286709_KO0,14_KE15,24.htm?jl=1007895223773

 

[Noeller]

Similarly, I saw a job posting for "Manager" of The Common at The Forks and it was about $15/hour I think. That's just insanity. How do people live in Winnipeg with salaries like that? Your housing situation is more or less the same as Alberta's, but the pay here (while still too low) is nowhere near as low as Winnipeg seems to be. I just can't figure it out...people must have to work 2 or 3 jobs at a time to make it all work......?? 

[rebusrankin]

$27,000 a year for a job category that according to other job sites that have links at the bottom of the ad pay $34,000+, with many at the 44,000+

Obby is a scum bag.

[WildPath]

27 minutes ago, JCon said:

I thought they were revamping it? They just had a manager position posted for $13 an hour.

Good Local cleaned out the pool of funds intended to help small businesses. 

Could be revamping it, its not really clear. Having a position for a manager would indicate something different is in the works. Still wondering how the $500,000 has been spent and how much of that went into Obby's pockets or his campaign. Coulda, woulda, shoulda I guess.

18 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Similarly, I saw a job posting for "Manager" of The Common at The Forks and it was about $15/hour I think. That's just insanity. How do people live in Winnipeg with salaries like that? Your housing situation is more or less the same as Alberta's, but the pay here (while still too low) is nowhere near as low as Winnipeg seems to be. I just can't figure it out...people must have to work 2 or 3 jobs at a time to make it all work......?? 

PC party is fortunately making some rumblings of increasing the minimum wage, currently scheduled to bump up to $12.35 an hour in October I believe. With Sask raising their minimum wage we will be the lowest in Canada.

[Bigblue204]

21 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Similarly, I saw a job posting for "Manager" of The Common at The Forks and it was about $15/hour I think. That's just insanity. How do people live in Winnipeg with salaries like that? Your housing situation is more or less the same as Alberta's, but the pay here (while still too low) is nowhere near as low as Winnipeg seems to be. I just can't figure it out...people must have to work 2 or 3 jobs at a time to make it all work......?? 

As per our great premier, our wages have to stay competitive! Can't be raising wages all willy nilly. How will CEOs eat?

Edited May 30, 2022 by Bigblue204

[Arnold_Palmer]

I used to run retail stores. More higher end stores like flag ship western Canadian stores and I got out of the industry because retail management jobs weren’t paying that great they were starting to get cheap. I was making around 45 k a year which is on high end of a retail spectrum but I got out of the industry right as the pandemic was starting and now make significantly more in a customer service  role with a marketing company, never would go back. It seemed like most companies wanted to pinch pennies. Even at the places where I was making decent money they wouldn’t let me reward lower management or employees with anymore more then 12, or 13 bucks an hour. Put a strain on retaining quality employees. 

[Tracker]

25 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

I used to run retail stores. More higher end stores like flag ship western Canadian stores and I got out of the industry because retail management jobs weren’t paying that great they were starting to get cheap. I was making around 45 k a year which is on high end of a retail spectrum but I got out of the industry right as the pandemic was starting and now make significantly more in a customer service  role with a marketing company, never would go back. It seemed like most companies wanted to pinch pennies. Even at the places where I was making decent money they wouldn’t let me reward lower management or employees with anymore more then 12, or 13 bucks an hour. Put a strain on retaining quality employees. 

Yu get what you pay for. 

[Noeller]

we're at $15/hour in AB for min wage, and that seems insanely low to me. I can't understand how people can live on less than 60k/year, and honestly, you need at least 100k (either solo or between two people) to afford a house and a life. 

[MOBomberFan]

I wish we could get minimum wage to $15 here. I might be old(er) and grey(er) before it ever happens. Manitoba is getting less affordable and wages are not keeping up for the majority of the population. A rising tide lifts all boats.

[MOBomberFan]

A solid minute and a half of heaTHER's greatest hits

[CodyT]

4 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

$27,000 a year for a job category that according to other job sites that have links at the bottom of the ad pay $34,000+, with many at the 44,000+

Obby is a scum bag.

Had a friend work for obby for 3 + years... let's just say it wasn't a good working environment. To put it nicely 

[GCn20]

As a small business owner in this province, I can assure you that a big part of wages being low in our province is a higher cost of doing business here. For small businesses, in particular, margins are tight as they are. If you increase the minimum wage too quickly you will drive a spike through the heart of small business in every sector with retail being the most vulnerable. Ultimately, any big increase in wages will get passed on to the consumers by the corporations that can survive such a thing making it an almost net zero gain for the employees receiving them. Yes, life has become unaffordable for many on the low end of the wage spectrum, and single income families. This is not new, and it is not something that 2 bucks an hour is going to fix. Getting some responsible government during an inflationary crisis might help but that's not what this particular forum wants to hear. Bumping minimum wage is fool's gold. The answer is to provide more industry and better paying job opportunities and that comes from having the ability to attract these opps to our province by not having draconian socialist government policy and taxation. You can't tax yourself out of poverty, and you most certainly can't fix it by trying to offload fundamental flaws onto the business sector.

[JCon]

37 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

As a small business owner in this province, I can assure you that a big part of wages being low in our province is a higher cost of doing business here. For small businesses, in particular, margins are tight as they are. If you increase the minimum wage too quickly you will drive a spike through the heart of small business in every sector with retail being the most vulnerable. Ultimately, any big increase in wages will get passed on to the consumers by the corporations that can survive such a thing making it an almost net zero gain for the employees receiving them. Yes, life has become unaffordable for many on the low end of the wage spectrum, and single income families. This is not new, and it is not something that 2 bucks an hour is going to fix. Getting some responsible government during an inflationary crisis might help but that's not what this particular forum wants to hear. Bumping minimum wage is fool's gold. The answer is to provide more industry and better paying job opportunities and that comes from having the ability to attract these opps to our province by not having draconian socialist government policy and taxation. You can't tax yourself out of poverty, and you most certainly can't fix it by trying to offload fundamental flaws onto the business sector.

Except, of course, the evidence suggests that raising minimum wage has a net positive impact on the economy. 

I've heard the right wing talking points my entire life about lowering taxes and not being able to raise wages, yet, every time it happens, you can see a net positive impact on the economy. Pulling people out of poverty should be a goal of all levels of government. 

I wish gov't would raise the minimum wage significantly or just tax businesses appropriately. 

Perhaps you want to read some academic papers on the subject. 

Here's a link (and quote) from The Star's coverage of David Card. You will note that he won the Nobel Prize in Economics for his work. You can dig deeper, if you choose. 

In awarding Canadian economist David Card the Nobel Prize in economics, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has given a huge boost to the value of empirical study in the field of labour economics. For it was Card, working alongside American economist Alan Krueger, who put real world wage increases in New Jersey under the microscope and found no support for the theory that a rise in the minimum wage reduced employment.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2021/10/12/ford-government-should-dump-old-school-thinking-on-minimum-wage.html

 

[Jpan85]

Nobody should have to work multiple jobs to get a living wage. Minimum wage are poverty wages.

[GCn20]

11 minutes ago, JCon said:

Except, of course, the evidence suggests that raising minimum wage has a net positive impact on the economy. 

I've heard the right wing talking points my entire life about lowering taxes and not being able to raise wages, yet, every time it happens, you can see a net positive impact on the economy. Pulling people out of poverty should be a goal of all levels of government. 

I wish gov't would raise the minimum wage significantly or just tax businesses appropriately. 

Perhaps you want to read some academic papers on the subject. 

Here's a link (and quote) from The Star's coverage of David Card. You will note that he won the Nobel Prize in Economics for his work. You can dig deeper, if you choose. 

In awarding Canadian economist David Card the Nobel Prize in economics, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has given a huge boost to the value of empirical study in the field of labour economics. For it was Card, working alongside American economist Alan Krueger, who put real world wage increases in New Jersey under the microscope and found no support for the theory that a rise in the minimum wage reduced employment.

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2021/10/12/ford-government-should-dump-old-school-thinking-on-minimum-wage.html

 

A lifetime of being a successful businessman, I lived and died by the bottom line. You can stuff your academic papers. Academia will tell you a crap load of things that in theory should work, but don't in the real world. Could the market sort itself out....sure it could, but not without significant casualties and upheaval along the way. Look, I'm not against anyone getting a living wage but I am very much against knee jerk idiotic moves that chase business away and shut businesses down and if you don't think wage cost plays a significant factor in that than there is zero point continuing this discussion with you.

[JCon]

Just now, GCn20 said:

A lifetime of being a successful businessman, I lived and died by the bottom line. You can stuff your academic papers. Academia will tell you a crap load of things that in theory should work, but don't in the real world. Could the market sort itself out....sure it could, but not without significant casualties and upheaval along the way. Look, I'm not against anyone getting a living wage but I am very much against knee jerk idiotic moves that chase business away and shut businesses down and if you don't think wage cost plays a significant factor in that than there is zero point continuing this discussion with you.

Typical. 

Always "me first".

You expect everyone else to make up for your not paying a living wage. But, then, will complain when the cost of social services goes up. 

Always downloading costs to everyone else. 

[rebusrankin]

What are higher costs that businesses in Manitoba face that other jurisdictions do not?

[GCn20]

27 minutes ago, JCon said:

Typical. 

Always "me first".

You expect everyone else to make up for your not paying a living wage. But, then, will complain when the cost of social services goes up. 

Always downloading costs to everyone else. 

What a bunch of know nothing horse **** that is. You don't know me, you don't know my businesses and you are completely out to lunch on what I paid. Downloading cost to everyone else? That is precisely what vast increases to any wage legislation does. I had several businesses over the years, most succeeded, some did not. I worked on a 10% margin as most in the hospitality industry do. You think business owners are carrying millions of dollars to the bank? Sure, the corporations do....some of them....but the single biggest employer in Manitoba is small business and you are smoking crack if you think that they are selfish, or downloading costs to everyone else. Most are struggling to survive and in the internet age it becomes tougher and tougher for brick and mortar places to do so. Save you sanctimony, you don't have a hot clue about what you are talking about.

I had a ton of employees making minimum wage, and most of them would have worked for nothing if I let them. In the hospitality industry it's all about the tips and on a slow day that minimum wage worker is making 30-40 bucks an hour. The problem with min wage legislation is that if I had to pay those same employees 20 bucks an hour they wouldn't have gotten their hours. I couldn't afford it.

24 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

What are higher costs that businesses in Manitoba face that other jurisdictions do not?

The business taxes in Manitoba, particularly the city of W, are much higher than other jurisdictions. Cost of goods, are slightly above average, and maintenance fees on property are very high due to our climate.

Speaking as a hotelier, the red tape and regulation in this province is draconian. Our liquor laws are some of the most antiquated in North America. It's not just one thing, but many things and they add up to very narrow margins. Couple that with the war the NDP wages on the industry to try and force unionization, and you've got a hospitality industry that would simply have to fold it's tent with much more prohibitive taxation, or government policy that increases cost. I speak from REAL world experience, a lifetime of it. Not imagined, or think tank hypothetical bull ****.

Edited May 31, 2022 by GCn20

[Tracker]

16 hours ago, MOBomberFan said:

I wish we could get minimum wage to $15 here. I might be old(er) and grey(er) before it ever happens. Manitoba is getting less affordable and wages are not keeping up for the majority of the population. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Not the proper context. Ronnie Raygun was given this adage so as to justify making the rich richer on the assumption that there would be the infamous "Trickle Down Theory" which was instantly rephrased to "Tinkle Down Theory"- a very apt description of the Reagan era. Under his administration, the S&L debacle and the Enron catastrophe happened.

[Sard]

59 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Not the proper context. Ronnie Raygun was given this adage so as to justify making the rich richer on the assumption that there would be the infamous "Trickle Down Theory" which was instantly rephrased to "Tinkle Down Theory"- a very apt description of the Reagan era. Under his administration, the S&L debacle and the Enron catastrophe happened.

It would work in theory, but the fact is that the people at the top were greedy and kept all of the money for themselves.  I suspect that the top people pushing those policies knew this would be the case as they were the ones who likely benefited from it.

[Tracker]

29 minutes ago, Sard said:

It would work in theory, but the fact is that the people at the top were greedy and kept all of the money for themselves.  I suspect that the top people pushing those policies knew this would be the case as they were the ones who likely benefited from it.

The concept was the assumption that the very wealthy would be magnanimous and shower the poorer. The reality is that damned few wealthy choose to do that. The wealthy buy bigger yachts, more spacious homes, more expensive vehicles and use the money to build gated communities or even buy whole islands and always have.  Democratic governments are supposed to create and sustain dynamic balances between all the competing social forces and strata. Another nice theory.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Tracker

[Bigblue204]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

As a small business owner in this province, I can assure you that a big part of wages being low in our province is a higher cost of doing business here. For small businesses, in particular, margins are tight as they are. If you increase the minimum wage too quickly you will drive a spike through the heart of small business in every sector with retail being the most vulnerable. Ultimately, any big increase in wages will get passed on to the consumers by the corporations that can survive such a thing making it an almost net zero gain for the employees receiving them. Yes, life has become unaffordable for many on the low end of the wage spectrum, and single income families. This is not new, and it is not something that 2 bucks an hour is going to fix. Getting some responsible government during an inflationary crisis might help but that's not what this particular forum wants to hear. Bumping minimum wage is fool's gold. The answer is to provide more industry and better paying job opportunities and that comes from having the ability to attract these opps to our province by not having draconian socialist government policy and taxation. You can't tax yourself out of poverty, and you most certainly can't fix it by trying to offload fundamental flaws onto the business sector.

This only works if we don't live in a global economy. When you apply it to the real world, the one we live in right now, keeping wages low = more poverty and that's it. Regardless of any new corporations coming to town to create jobs, regardless of any money pumped into industry etc etc. None of that matters. Raising the wage will force some out of business, that's unfortunate, but also the way it's supposed to go in this "capitalist" society we have. If your business can not change with the times, sorry, time to move on.

Now turning the economy back into an industrial one, or one where it's based on what Canada creates for Canada would be great. But again, in a global economy, that is never going to happen. Not without huge (likely tragic) events taking place. So again, it's good but there's no way in hell I'm making people wait for that to occur.

also, "draconian socialist government" as a phrase doesn't make sense. I'd like you to actually look up what socialism is. I'll give you a head start, if you're reading something that says socialist governments can be draconian, you should find another source.

[Bigblue204]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

A lifetime of being a successful businessman, I lived and died by the bottom line. You can stuff your academic papers. Academia will tell you a crap load of things that in theory should work, but don't in the real world. Could the market sort itself out....sure it could, but not without significant casualties and upheaval along the way. Look, I'm not against anyone getting a living wage but I am very much against knee jerk idiotic moves that chase business away and shut businesses down and if you don't think wage cost plays a significant factor in that than there is zero point continuing this discussion with you.

Tell me how horribly places with higher wages are doing compared to Winnipeg? You have the rest of Canada to compare us to, Winnipeg/MB must be absolutely killing it compared to the rest of the nation.

Again, you're speaking as if Winnipeg isn't influenced by the globe. And we are. Until that changes, wages have to increase. If your business can not keep up, that is super shitty. 

If you'd like to change it, we need to start kicking global competitors out of our economy. That is quite literally the only solution, well I suppose you could also convince the rest of the world to pay liveable wages....but after that...anything else is just a band aid.

oh i should also add, in a capitalist society (because BOOO Socialism) businesses fail all the time and are replaced by better ones. So if we're going to play make believe in the way we think our economy works. If you're business fails, it's your fault and you should start another with a better business plan.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Bigblue204

[blue_gold_84]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I speak from REAL world experience, a lifetime of it. 

Which is purely anecdotal and thus, doesn't really qualify as objective evidence.