Canadian Politics

[Sard]

1 minute ago, max power said:

LOL, obviously I'm talking about the videos. Which have clips from all sorts of people, including the CDC and Fauci. But yeah I'm the braindead one here. I'm sure you'll never watch them. I might not want to face some of that either if I'd been like that.

You're right about one thing though, covidiots like me aren't the biggest victims here. At least not the ones that haven't lost their jobs or had their lives ruined in other ways. I'm fine. I haven't spent 2.5 years of my life wallowing in fear and hatred of my fellow citizens because of a bunch of cynical politicians and ass-covering doctors.

The covidiots in the convoy were the biggest group of hateful people... between the white supremacist neo-nazis with their swastika flags and the F*ck Trudeau flag bearers, let alone whatever other groups were in there...

 

Getting a vaccine is not living in fear, it's using well established science to help reduce the effects of a deadly virus.

Wearing a mask is not living in fear, it's being courteous to your fellow citizens to protect each other from whatever sickness you may be carrying around... there was a reason why seasonal flu cases were down severely in the fall of 2020, because enough people were wearing masks and properly washing their hands.

 

As for personal experience, I have a good friend who got Covid before the vaccines were available and although he didn't have to go to the hospital, he tells me that he felt like he was going to die.  2 years later, he got it again after having been vaccinated and he said that it was a night and day difference between the two.

[Mark H.]

2 minutes ago, max power said:

As far as I know there were no mandates scheduled to expire at that time. Do you mean the provincial stuff?  There were some vague comments that the mandates weren't permanent, but there was no real indication that they were going to let up any time soon.

And the federal mandates that kicked the whole thing off didn't get lifted until a month or two ago I think?

They said they were protesting all the mandates. Except for the border restrictions, all mandates were provincial

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 minutes ago, max power said:

Hilarious. Did you watch the little clip yet with all the various government officials talking about how you won't get covid if you have the vaccine?

Were they talking about the wild version, alpha, delta or omicron- all of that is pretty important. 

 

I am not a fan of the cherry picked data being used to further the misinformation and ignorance...

[Mark H.]

9 minutes ago, max power said:

And the federal mandates that kicked the whole thing off didn't get lifted until a month or two ago I think?

Yes, but the Americans haven't lifted theirs yet - you still can't cross the border from Canada - if you're unvaxxed

I know someone who tried - literally two days ago

I guess they better get some trucks down there

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, Sard said:

 Nobody ever said the vaccines stop transmission, they drastically reduce severe outcomes.  The reason for boosters is 2-fold, decreasing effectiveness over time and mutation of the virus... no different than the annual flu vaccine because it is different strain(s) of the flu going around every year.

As for the protest, if you think that honking horns all day and all night in the middle of a city is peaceful, then there's no reasoning with you.

Not to mention the racist, misogynist, threatening statements by the Freedumb protesters, and the accumulated firearms and plans to kill police and others that happened at the Coutts, Alberta incident.

[max power]

19 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Not to mention the racist, misogynist, threatening statements by the Freedumb protesters, and the accumulated firearms and plans to kill police and others that happened at the Coutts, Alberta incident.

From what I understand the coutts firearms seizures ended up having nothing to do with the blockade. It was some other people in the neighbouring town or something.

I'd like to read some evidence of all these racist, misogynist, threatening statements. Is it worse than being told you should die or have your children taken away? A lot of horrible things have been said in the past year or two. Someone on here keeps calling me braindead, a covidiot, and to **** off. Ha.

21 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Yes, but the Americans haven't lifted theirs yet - you still can't cross the border from Canada - if you're unvaxxed

I know someone who tried - literally two days ago

I guess they better get some trucks down there

That would be an issue for the Americans to protest over. I'm sure they'd get a lot of support from a lot of Canadians. But with the Canadian restrictions dropped, there's nothing to gain for any Americans now. It's only non-citizens who need to be vaccinated to drive across.

I don't think anyone expected the US to hold on to their border restrictions this long. At least on that we can probably all agree.

Edited November 25, 2022 by max power

[max power]

26 minutes ago, Sard said:

The covidiots in the convoy were the biggest group of hateful people... between the white supremacist neo-nazis with their swastika flags and the F*ck Trudeau flag bearers, let alone whatever other groups were in there...

 

Getting a vaccine is not living in fear, it's using well established science to help reduce the effects of a deadly virus.

Wearing a mask is not living in fear, it's being courteous to your fellow citizens to protect each other from whatever sickness you may be carrying around... there was a reason why seasonal flu cases were down severely in the fall of 2020, because enough people were wearing masks and properly washing their hands.

 

As for personal experience, I have a good friend who got Covid before the vaccines were available and although he didn't have to go to the hospital, he tells me that he felt like he was going to die.  2 years later, he got it again after having been vaccinated and he said that it was a night and day difference between the two.

Yeah, that one Nazi flag was troubling. Good thing he was confronted by other protesters and left quickly. Did anyone ever see it again after that one day?

I wouldn't fly a F*ck Trudeau flag either. But somehow I doubt anyone on here was upset about all the F*ck Trump stuff we saw for 4+ years from normal people, celebrities, etc. So let's just avoid that double standard. I could probably go back on this thread and see just as bad stuff directed to our current premier.

Anyways, you said no one ever said the vaccine stopped transmission. Did you watch that video I posted?

[Mark H.]

8 minutes ago, max power said:

I don't think anyone expected the US to hold on to their border restrictions this long. At least on that we can probably all agree.

Correct. And it begs the question - what was the point of the convoy?

The government has finally done what they asked - but unvaxxed truckers still can't cross the border

Which is exactly what the government was saying all along

I agree with protests, but this one was pointless, and I might add, costly to the livelihoods of other Canadians

 

[max power]

28 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

Were they talking about the wild version, alpha, delta or omicron- all of that is pretty important. 

 

I am not a fan of the cherry picked data being used to further the misinformation and ignorance...

It's not cherry picked data - it's a reminder that all those experts assured us that the vaccine would stop transmission. And it did not. And later it turned out the CDC didn't even do any research at the time on if that was true. And had no evidence that it would.

And just for the record, Roussin and Joss Reimer here in Manitoba were claiming the vaccines stopped the spread for a while even after other countries were admitting that it didn't.

[Noeller]

2 minutes ago, max power said:

 all those experts assured us that the vaccine would stop transmission.

Nope. What we were told was that vaccines (in combination with other measures such as masks and distancing) would HELP REDUCE TRANSMISSION and would HELP REDUCE SEVERE CONSEQUENCES (ie Death, being very very sick) which is exactly what they did. 

Listen, I'm a big fan of listening to people who are really smart....went to school for a decade and study these things their entire professional lives...... why would we not listen to them?  My barber said to me "what would you like done?" and I said "You're the professional... I wouldn't tell my mechanic how to fix my truck and I'm not gonna tell you how to do your job. Just clean me up so I'm presentable". All I'm saying is: Listen to the professionals...the experts. When 99% of experts/professionals agree on something, they're probably right. 

[Mark H.]

1 minute ago, max power said:

It's not cherry picked data - it's a reminder that all those experts assured us that the vaccine would stop transmission. And it did not. And later it turned out the CDC didn't even do any research at the time on if that was true. And had no evidence that it would.

And just for the record, Roussin and Joss Reimer here in Manitoba were claiming the vaccines stopped the spread for a while even after other countries were admitting that it didn't.

Vaccines create a higher level of immunity in a population, which does help to contain spread, especially with a high uptake

Unvaccinated people who get really sick have a heavy viral load, thus they spread the virus more

Contained not stopped

[max power]

2 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Correct. And it begs the question - what was the point of the convoy?

The government has finally done what they asked - but unvaxxed truckers still can't cross the border

Which is exactly what the government was saying all along

I agree with protests, but this one was pointless, and I might add, costly to the livelihoods of other Canadians

 

I would add that the mandates and lockdowns were far more costly to the livelihoods of Canadians.

I don't think I've ever seen the government claiming they had to shut down the protest because it was pointless.

And even if I agreed (I don't), I don't think that meets the justification for enacting the EA.

 

I will say this on the convoy - it gave a voice and hope to a lot of people who did not feel like they were being heard at all. Not by any of the provincial governments, certainly not the liberal govt, not the media, and not even the federal conservatives. It led directly to a bunch of provincial mandates and vaccine passports being dropped, whether you want to believe it or not. And if nothing else, at least it led to removal of O'Toole as leader of the opposition so now we have at least some semblance of support for the rights of the unvaccinated in Ottawa.

[max power]

4 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Nope. What we were told was that vaccines (in combination with other measures such as masks and distancing) would HELP REDUCE TRANSMISSION and would HELP REDUCE SEVERE CONSEQUENCES (ie Death, being very very sick) which is exactly what they did. 

Listen, I'm a big fan of listening to people who are really smart....went to school for a decade and study these things their entire professional lives...... why would we not listen to them?  My barber said to me "what would you like done?" and I said "You're the professional... I wouldn't tell my mechanic how to fix my truck and I'm not gonna tell you how to do your job. Just clean me up so I'm presentable". All I'm saying is: Listen to the professionals...the experts. When 99% of experts/professionals agree on something, they're probably right. 

Holy crap, no that is not what we were told. Watch that clip, it's clear what they were saying.

And what if it's not 99%, and probably isn't "every single time". Our medical experts have a great history of getting things wrong sometimes too. Just look back at the ridiculous in hindsight fear mongering from Fauci on AIDS back in the day. These people aren't gods.

Besides, we don't even need to argue about what the experts say. The vaccines have been out for a long time, and they've failed for the most part.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 hours ago, max power said:

I would add that the mandates and lockdowns were far more costly to the livelihoods of Canadians.

I don't think I've ever seen the government claiming they had to shut down the protest because it was pointless.

And even if I agreed (I don't), I don't think that meets the justification for enacting the EA.

 

I will say this on the convoy - it gave a voice and hope to a lot of people who did not feel like they were being heard at all. Not by any of the provincial governments, certainly not the liberal govt, not the media, and not even the federal conservatives. It led directly to a bunch of provincial mandates and vaccine passports being dropped, whether you want to believe it or not. And if nothing else, at least it led to removal of O'Toole as leader of the opposition so now we have at least some semblance of support for the rights of the unvaccinated in Ottawa.

It did no such thing. I even made a comment when this whole free-dumb convoy started. It was perplexing that they were protesting mandates that were going to soon expire... I knew that the convoy supporters would seize on that as some sort of victory. As I said, it's like protesting the dark and demanding the sun to be released... 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[max power]

9 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Vaccines create a higher level of immunity in a population, which does help to contain spread, especially with a high uptake

Unvaccinated people who get really sick have a heavy viral load, thus they spread the virus more

Contained not stopped

That's how they're supposed to work. These ones didn't. Even if they did on some level, everyone got covid last winter anyways. I doubt it was the 15% unvaccinated spreading it everywhere when we weren't allowed to go anywhere.

1 minute ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

It did no such thing. I even made a comment when this whole free-dumb convoy started. It was perplexing that they were protesting mandades that were going to soon expire... I knew that the convoy supporters would sieve on that as some sort of victory. Like I said, it's like protesting the dark and demanding the sun to be released... 

Well i'll agree to disagree with you on that one. The provincial governments in manitoba and ontario especially were doing a great job of slow-walking any restriction easing right from the beginning of covid. As someone who was banned from all sorts of places last winter I was paying pretty close attention to what the government was saying, and they did not sound like they were eager at all to drop the vaccine passports.

[Mark H.]

6 minutes ago, max power said:

I would add that the mandates and lockdowns were far more costly to the livelihoods of Canadians.

I don't think I've ever seen the government claiming they had to shut down the protest because it was pointless.

And even if I agreed (I don't), I don't think that meets the justification for enacting the EA.

 

I will say this on the convoy - it gave a voice and hope to a lot of people who did not feel like they were being heard at all. Not by any of the provincial governments, certainly not the liberal govt, not the media, and not even the federal conservatives. It led directly to a bunch of provincial mandates and vaccine passports being dropped, whether you want to believe it or not. And if nothing else, at least it led to removal of O'Toole as leader of the opposition so now we have at least some semblance of support for the rights of the unvaccinated in Ottawa.

C'mon man, that's just not logical.  Most of the world had lockdowns.  We are mostly an export economy - we could have had 0 lockdowns or mandates in Canada and livelihoods would have still been severely impacted

It's hilarious that you would say the federal Conservatives did not support the convoy. Maybe check out some of the videos of Candice Bergen in question period

The removal of O'Toole was already in the works before the convoy - Bergen took over less than a week after the convoy arrived

[Mark H.]

7 minutes ago, max power said:

That's how they're supposed to work. These ones didn't. Even if they did on some level, everyone got covid last winter anyways. I doubt it was the 15% unvaccinated spreading it everywhere when we weren't allowed to go anywhere.

Well i'll agree to disagree with you on that one. The provincial governments in manitoba and ontario especially were doing a great job of slow-walking any restriction easing right from the beginning of covid. As someone who was banned from all sorts of places last winter I was paying pretty close attention to what the government was saying, and they did not sound like they were eager at all to drop the vaccine passports.

You could go to school, work, essential businesses, etc. 

And...no. Pallister was always more than ready to lift the restrictions. Remember the summer of 2020?  They even ran an ad campaign

Remember removing the mask mandate...only to reinstate it again?

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 minutes ago, max power said:

Well i'll agree to disagree with you on that one. The provincial governments in manitoba and ontario especially were doing a great job of slow-walking any restriction easing right from the beginning of covid. As someone who was banned from all sorts of places last winter I was paying pretty close attention to what the government was saying, and they did not sound like they were eager at all to drop the vaccine passports.

Sure disagree with me all you want- that doesn't make you right. 

Saskatchewan's health orders were set to expire feb 28- they made every indication that they were easing restrictions....

Manitobas were renewed on feb 11th and were trending towards more easing of restrictions on March 4th. 

IDK about Ottawa... but they lifted it too- knowing ford, he's not going to be swayed by truckers protesting.

 

As for slow walking... Palister opened up Manitoba too quickly and had to clamp down again because of rising deaths and hospitalizations...

 

You are out to lunch on many of these points you talk about.

 

[WildPath]

1 hour ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

Sure disagree with me all you want- that doesn't make you right. 

Saskatchewan's health orders were set to expire feb 28- they made every indication that they were easing restrictions....

Manitobas were renewed on feb 11th and were trending towards more easing of restrictions on March 4th. 

IDK about Ottawa... but they lifted it too- knowing ford, he's not going to be swayed by truckers protesting.

 

As for slow walking... Palister opened up Manitoba too quickly and had to clamp down again because of rising deaths and hospitalizations...

 

You are out to lunch on many of these points you talk about.

 

I can't remember if it was twice or thrice, but we did the whole victory lap over Covid multiple times in the face of protest from doctors and experts. We even offered public funds to attract large events. Our health minister even accused doctors of trying to spread panic. I believe that was not long before Pallister's "cancelling Christmas" speech. Our health system couldn't (and didn't) handle the load that was created on it.

 

2 hours ago, max power said:

I will say this on the convoy - it gave a voice and hope to a lot of people who did not feel like they were being heard at all.

Lots of people "listening" now. Anyone that sees it as a way to make a quick buck the same way Trump keeps beating the drum. Pollievre's support has everything to do with boosting his own political power and getting suckers to donate and support his cause. Any non-mainstream media that supports the cause does it to make money.

[HardCoreBlue]

2 hours ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

Sure disagree with me all you want- that doesn't make you right. 

Saskatchewan's health orders were set to expire feb 28- they made every indication that they were easing restrictions....

Manitobas were renewed on feb 11th and were trending towards more easing of restrictions on March 4th. 

IDK about Ottawa... but they lifted it too- knowing ford, he's not going to be swayed by truckers protesting.

 

As for slow walking... Palister opened up Manitoba too quickly and had to clamp down again because of rising deaths and hospitalizations...

 

You are out to lunch on many of these points you talk about.

 

And it’s not disagreeing with you. It’s disagreeing with facts and science. You’re just the messenger.
 

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, WildPath said:

I can't remember if it was twice or thrice, but we did the whole victory lap over Covid multiple times in the face of protest from doctors and experts. We even offered public funds to attract large events. Our health minister even accused doctors of trying to spread panic. I believe that was not long before Pallister's "cancelling Christmas" speech. Our health system couldn't (and didn't) handle the load that was created on it.

yup-

 

 

 

it was funny- we joked that, the little arrow dipping down and then straight up was covid cases.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[17to85]

4 hours ago, max power said:

That's how they're supposed to work. These ones didn't. Even if they did on some level, everyone got covid last winter anyways. I doubt it was the 15% unvaccinated spreading it everywhere when we weren't allowed to go anywhere.

You are a God damned idiot. Covid vaccines were extremely effective against the original strain of covid. Trouble was by the time they were readily available the thing had mutated and they were less effective at preventing transmission... but still highly effective at preventing serious illness. You know the kind of thing that could overwhelm a healthcare system. 

We have a really swell large scale study group in the state. Go look at some of the data from red states cs. Blue states regarding the impact the difference in how covid was treated is having.

[Mark H.]

Now that the public inquiry is over, I have to say the approach of the convoy legal team was ridiculous

1. They accused witnesses of wasting time, while they wasted more time than anyone

2. Continuously trying to imply that the Nazi flag bearer was a Liberal staffer.  They should have said right from the outset, that this person was asked to leave the protest, and then leave it at that

All it did was give the impression that they had no real evidence.  And then chasing after Greg McEachern, and destroying any credibility they had

3. Instead of bullying witnesses, get them to clarify their stance on people's right to protest.  The second lawyer who cross-examined Freeland, somewhat did that

4. Statements like "you are afraid of Canadians."  How stupid is that? I'm sure every single person could find a Canadian citizen, that they are afraid of

5. And speaking of statements: making and reading statements, instead of using them to question witnesses.  This shows a distinct lack of preparedness

 

 

 

 

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Now that the public inquiry is over, I have to say the approach of the convoy legal team was ridiculous

1. They accused witnesses of wasting time, while they wasted more time than anyone

2. Continuously trying to imply that the Nazi flag bearer was a Liberal staffer.  They should have said right from the outset, that this person was asked to leave the protest, and then leave it at that

All it did was give the impression that they had no real evidence.  And then chasing after Greg McEachern, and destroying any credibility they had

3. Instead of bullying witnesses, get them to clarify their stance on people's right to protest.  The second lawyer who cross-examined Freeland, somewhat did that

4. Statements like "you are afraid of Canadians."  How stupid is that? I'm sure every single person could find a Canadian citizen, that they are afraid of

5. And speaking of statements: making and reading statements, instead of using them to question witnesses.  This shows a distinct lack of preparedness

 

 

 

 

Dumb people get dumb lawyers. It's morons all the way down. These people ain't exactly the best and brightest.

[Tracker]

32 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Dumb people get dumb lawyers. It's morons all the way down. These people ain't exactly the best and brightest.

The Convoy lawyers probably worked pro bono or for wat less than usual in the hope of creating a greater profile for themselves. But yes, these were not the sharpest knives in the drawer.