Canadian Politics

[SpeedFlex27]

On 2022-12-19 at 1:25 PM, GCn20 said:

Might have had a chance in the old Gimli riding but Gimli-Interlake would take a miracle for the NDP to win. Harry Enns old riding, and it doesn't get any more entrenched PC than that, along with Ashern, Eriksdale, Arborg, and Interlake Menno country. If every single voter in Gimli voted NDP it might be less of a blow out, but that ain't going to happen as the town of Gimli historically has been pretty 50/50. The old Gimli riding had a large stretch of NDP country that has now been absorbed into Selkirk. The old Interlake riding was NDP dominated when the reserves were part of the riding. Neither is the case anymore. Interlake farm country and the Lake Manitoba communities are PC....strong PC....and that is the majority of that constituency now. Tom Nevakshonoff is one of my best friends, he told me that when the new election maps came out he knew retaining his seat was next to impossible.

Harry Enns? That was 60 years ago.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, JCon said:

They're only contribution is "**** Trudeau" and they think this is policy. 

Pierre Pollievre's ears are burning...

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

11 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Pierre Pollievre's ears loins are burning tingling...

fixed for accuracy.

 

I swear every time pp, hears anyone saying **** Trudeau or anything disparaging towards JT, he's all:

 

[Wideleft]

From today's Free Press editorial:

Excluding pandemic costs, the province spent $7.08 billion on health care in 2021-22. That’s an increase of $520 million from the $6.56 billion the province spent in 2017-18 — an average annual increase of only 1.9 per cent. It’s a stingy amount that falls well short of addressing chronic hospital understaffing, long wait lists and a severe doctor shortage, particularly in rural Manitoba.

It’s especially inadequate given the province’s aging population, which is putting increased pressure on hospitals, home care and personal-care homes.

Ms. Stefanson blames the federal government for that funding shortfall. However, during the same period, health-care transfers from Ottawa to Manitoba increased on average 3.8 per cent a year, bringing the federal contribution to $1.57 billion in 2021-22.

That does not include additional federal funding for pandemic relief. It also doesn’t include the $900-million annual boost in equalization payments Manitoba received from Ottawa during that period.

Instead of using that funding and other own-source revenues to provide the health-care system with adequate funding, the Tories cut taxes as part of their “$2,020 tax rollback guarantee.” According to Finance Minister Cameron Friesen, total tax cuts since 2016 are worth over $1.1 billion a year.

[GCn20]

10 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Harry Enns? That was 60 years ago.

No it wasn't. Although he was their MLA for about 50 years...and EXTREMELY popular there. The Lake Manitoba communities have been overwhelmingly conservative for the past 60-70 years though. That ain't changing anytime soon.

19 hours ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I was sharing an article and the posts merged. Calm down.

"Nice job substantiating your claims, by the way," said nobody ever.

Justin Trudeau substantiates my claims nicely without any help needed.

19 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

While health care is a provincial responsibility, since the federal government has more ability to raise revenue and to ensure relatively equal levels of care across Canada, the federal government has always played a role in healthcare ever since it was introduced in the 1960s.

As for withholding funds, Trudeau wanting to put strings before committing $ is reasonable since provincial governments have not used healthcare money for healthcare and are crying poor (see Ontario and Alberta as examples). Heck, they were doing the same thing with Covid funds (see Manitoba getting 85 million for education during covid and spending 10 million on a remote learning center and not accounting for the other 75 million).

It is not the federal governments mandate to put strings on funding under our constitution. Period.

[GCn20]

18 hours ago, Wideleft said:

The ironic thing is Manitoba's Health Transformation initiative was meant to find efficiencies across the province by using the same technologies and processes because it should be easier to support and staff.  It would also therefore be easier to plan and budget for on an ongoing basis.  In theory, it makes a lot of sense if implemented properly and not in haste. 

Trudeau isn't really saying anything much different and yet Manitoba is pissing and moaning.

If I had a nickel for every time I swore at one of my unintentional merged posts, I'd have many nickels.

Manitoba is pissing and moaning because Trudeau is with holding funds. Just like every other province and territory is pissing and moaning about it. The First Ministers meeting last week saw 100% condemnation by every premier to the feds funding shenanigans.

[blue_gold_84]

4 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Justin Trudeau substantiates my claims nicely without any help needed.

So you've got nothing. As consistent and petulant as ever.

[GCn20]

11 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

So you've got nothing. As consistent and petulant as ever.

You can call me petulant if you like. Disagreeing with your political views is not the definition of petulance, no matter how much you would like it to be so. I know a turd when I smell a turd, and I am not alone is noticing that this federal government is beginning to reek. You can hate that opinion, you can call it petulant if you desire, but the fact of the matter is that Trudeau would not even be prime minister the last few years if he kept his own electoral reform promises.

You are a Liberal, right on for you....I hope they are doing something to make your life better. They have done nothing for me but make it worse, that's not anecdotal, that's just straight up fact. Therefore, when you say I got nothing....you are almost right...because that's how much I feel Trudeau wants me to have before he is done. You will never change my mind on that because I watch the dollars evaporate every day, I see my indigenous people struggling now more than they ever have. Like anything else, politics has a lot to do with perspective and from my perspective, what I am experiencing and what my family and friends on the reserve are experiencing is broken promises and despair. 

Liberals usually, and in the past, have gotten strong support from the native community. They shouldn't count on that next election. Trudeau is a meme to them now and not a flattering one...right up there with Ernest Monias and Aunty jokes.

Edited December 21, 2022 by GCn20

[blue_gold_84]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

You can call me petulant if you like. Disagreeing with your political views is not the definition of petulance, no matter how much you would like it to be so. I know a turd when I smell a turd, and I am not alone is noticing that this federal government is beginning to reek. You can hate that opinion, you can call it petulant if you desire, but the fact of the matter is that Trudeau would not even be prime minister the last few years if he kept his won electoral reform promises.

You're acting petulant, though. And you made numerous claims without any evidence whatsoever.

That's also not a fact.

Arguing in bad faith is akin to trolling and does nothing to benefit discourse in this thread.

[GCn20]

Just now, blue_gold_84 said:

You're acting petulant, though. And you made numerous claims without any evidence whatsoever.

That's also not a fact.

Arguing in bad faith is akin to trolling and does nothing to benefit discourse in this thread.

It actually is a fact, if Trudeau's electoral reforms had been in place the last two elections the Conservatives would have won government.

1 minute ago, blue_gold_84 said:

You're acting petulant, though. And you made numerous claims without any evidence whatsoever.

That's also not a fact.

Arguing in bad faith is akin to trolling and does nothing to benefit discourse in this thread.

What numerous claims did I make without evidence? I stated my opinion on Trudeau. It is an opinion that I do not need to defend because it is mine. I stated he with held health care funding. He did. That is factual...and he has even admitted to doing so. I also stated that the feds do not have the mandate under the constitution to impose their health care management on the provinces. Also a fact. There is nothing trolling about that. You just don't like it.

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, GCn20 said:

It actually is a fact, if Trudeau's electoral reforms had been in place the last two elections the Conservatives would have won government.

Not a fact.  There are different kinds of electoral reform:  Proportional Representation, Ranked Balloting etc.  Even under PR, the Cons would not have had enough seats to form a coalition with 1/3 of the seats.

 

17 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Manitoba is pissing and moaning because Trudeau is with holding funds. Just like every other province and territory is pissing and moaning about it. The First Ministers meeting last week saw 100% condemnation by every premier to the feds funding shenanigans.

You must have missed this from a few minutes ago (I'll put it in red so you notice this time):

Excluding pandemic costs, the province spent $7.08 billion on health care in 2021-22. That’s an increase of $520 million from the $6.56 billion the province spent in 2017-18 — an average annual increase of only 1.9 per cent. It’s a stingy amount that falls well short of addressing chronic hospital understaffing, long wait lists and a severe doctor shortage, particularly in rural Manitoba.

It’s especially inadequate given the province’s aging population, which is putting increased pressure on hospitals, home care and personal-care homes.

Ms. Stefanson blames the federal government for that funding shortfall. However, during the same period, health-care transfers from Ottawa to Manitoba increased on average 3.8 per cent a year, bringing the federal contribution to $1.57 billion in 2021-22.

That does not include additional federal funding for pandemic relief. It also doesn’t include the $900-million annual boost in equalization payments Manitoba received from Ottawa during that period.

 

[JCon]

Of course the Con Premiers will piss and moan. It's al they have. And, failed leadership. And crypto coins. 

[rebusrankin]

43 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

No it wasn't. Although he was their MLA for about 50 years...and EXTREMELY popular there. The Lake Manitoba communities have been overwhelmingly conservative for the past 60-70 years though. That ain't changing anytime soon.

Justin Trudeau substantiates my claims nicely without any help needed.

It is not the federal governments mandate to put strings on funding under our constitution. Period.

Under the Canada Health Act, they can withhold funding if conditions in the health act are not met. Constitution FYI says nothing about funding.

[Wideleft]

35 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Under the Canada Health Act, they can withhold funding if conditions in the health act are not met. Constitution FYI says nothing about funding.

Which is why Alberta has yet to completely privatize health care.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

It is not the federal governments mandate to put strings on funding under our constitution. Period.

https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201191E

 

3 The Federal Spending Power
The federal spending power is inferred from Parliament’s jurisdiction in the Constitution Act, 1867 over public debt and property (section 91(1A)) and its general taxing power (section 91(3)). Thus, Parliament may raise money by taxation and may spend it, or grant it to others, as it sees fit.

Although the provinces are responsible for the direct delivery of most medical services, the federal government uses its spending power to play a strong role in the Canadian medicare system through its financial contributions and by setting certain national standards by means of the Canada Health Act.

Using its spending power, Parliament may set conditions for receipt of the money. The Canada Health Act, therefore, is constitutionally about the financing of health care, not health care directly, and the national standards it establishes are the conditions to which the provinces must adhere if they wish to continue to receive federal money. The only sanction on a province for breach of any of the Act’s criteria or conditions is for the federal government to reduce or withhold payments to the province.

In a 1997 decision of the Supreme Court of Canada, Justice LaForest stated that Parliament has played its role in the provision of medical care

by employing its inherent spending power to set national standards for provincial medicare programs. The Canada Health Act … requires the federal government to contribute to the funding of provincial health insurance programs provided they conform with certain specified criteria. (The constitutionality of this kind of conditional grant, I note parenthetically, was approved by this Court in Reference Re Canada Assistance Plan (B.C.), [1991] 2 S.C.R. 525, at p. 567.)

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

No it wasn't. Although he was their MLA for about 50 years...and EXTREMELY popular there. The Lake Manitoba communities have been overwhelmingly conservative for the past 60-70 years though. That ain't changing anytime soon.

Justin Trudeau substantiates my claims nicely without any help needed.

It is not the federal governments mandate to put strings on funding under our constitution. Period.

Soooo....you would have them give the provinces a lump of money that they could use as they see fit without increasing health care? After provinces were wringing their hands and weeping that they did not have enough income to provide good healthcare after years/decades of cutting funding to there services?

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Manitoba is pissing and moaning because Trudeau is with holding funds. Just like every other province and territory is pissing and moaning about it. The First Ministers meeting last week saw 100% condemnation by every premier to the feds funding shenanigans.

I find it curiously interesting that during the discussion on the pandemic benefits and how that was just handed out with very little over sight and "with out putting strings" on them. 

yet here you are advocating that Trudeau do exactly that- no strings, no oversight... 

 

It's like he's damn if he does or damned if he doesn't with you... 

 

I think you just suffer from TDS... 

 

And to hell with you for making me defend Trudeau.  😄

[Wideleft]

15 minutes ago, Tracker said:

Soooo....you would have them give the provinces a lump of money that they could use as they see fit without increasing health care? After provinces were wringing their hands and weeping that they did not have enough income to provide good healthcare after years/decades of cutting funding to there services?

The Feds have never said that they wouldn't increase money for healthcare only that the provinces must prove the money is going to improve healthcare.

Wanna-B-Fanboy already established that the Feds have this right.

Perhaps you can provide evidence that they don't (other than Conservative Premier talking points).

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

You can call me petulant if you like. Disagreeing with your political views is not the definition of petulance, no matter how much you would like it to be so. I know a turd when I smell a turd, and I am not alone is noticing that this federal government is beginning to reek. You can hate that opinion, you can call it petulant if you desire, but the fact of the matter is that Trudeau would not even be prime minister the last few years if he kept his own electoral reform promises.

You are a Liberal, right on for you....I hope they are doing something to make your life better. They have done nothing for me but make it worse, that's not anecdotal, that's just straight up fact. Therefore, when you say I got nothing....you are almost right...because that's how much I feel Trudeau wants me to have before he is done. You will never change my mind on that because I watch the dollars evaporate every day, I see my indigenous people struggling now more than they ever have. Like anything else, politics has a lot to do with perspective and from my perspective, what I am experiencing and what my family and friends on the reserve are experiencing is broken promises and despair. 

Liberals usually, and in the past, have gotten strong support from the native community. They shouldn't count on that next election. Trudeau is a meme to them now and not a flattering one...right up there with Ernest Monias and Aunty jokes.

You're sounding a bit desperate, like Rider fans hoping to snag that last playoff spot through the cross-over despite tanking their season down the backstretch, any loophole will do. You fail to acknowledge how unpalatable the current version of the CPC has become to most Canadians, so hope is all you got.

[17to85]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

The First Ministers meeting last week saw 100% condemnation by every premier to the feds funding shenanigans.

Premiers want money and no oversight, shocking! Absolutely shocking I tell you!

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

You can hate that opinion, you can call it petulant if you desire, but the fact of the matter is that Trudeau would not even be prime minister the last few years if he kept his own electoral reform promises.

Everything I have watched/read/heard has been the exact opposite of what you say here... 

The main thing I keep seeing is that Liberal would win almost every single election and the cons would pretty much lose out almost every time. The victories would be more, but the majorities would be less for the Liberals. 

 

I am really interested to read your set of facts- maybe I am just in an echo chamber, need to read the other side of things to see if it's true.

[17to85]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I hope they are doing something to make your life better. They have done nothing for me but make it worse,

The liberal child care plan has been the single biggest benefit any government has given to me. So yay for that. Money directly in my pocket.

[blue_gold_84]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/defence-department-approval-f35-1.6693455

Quote

The Department of National Defence recently received quiet approval to spend $7 billion on 16 F-35 fighter jets and related gear.

Two defence sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss matters not yet made public, said a funding request sent to the Treasury Board got the green light earlier this month.

The Canadian Press also viewed a document summarizing this request to Treasury Board, which is the department that controls the federal purse strings, and independently verified its accuracy.

The funding approval came after months of negotiations with the U.S. government and Lockheed Martin after the F-35 beat out Sweden's Saab Gripen in a competition earlier this year.

While the federal government has said it plans to buy 88 new fighter jets to replace its aging CF-18s between 2026 and 2032, the sources said Canada will be purchasing F-35s in blocks over the next few years.

 

[Wideleft]

37 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

The liberal child care plan has been the single biggest benefit any government has given to me. So yay for that. Money directly in my pocket.

Which we should have had in 2005. Thank the Cons and NDP for bringing down the Paul Martin government.

The 2005 Canadian Federal Budget during the premiership of Paul Martin, included CA$5 billion over five years for a national day care program similar to Québec's child care system.^[12] The federal and provincial governments signed bilateral agreements "Moving Forward on Early Learning and Child Care". This allowed individual provinces to access the new federal funding.^[13] Both Saskatchewan and Manitoba signed agreements through which they committed to expanding only in the non-profit sector. Ontario did not.^[13] In 2005, the Ontario Coalition for Better Child Care, said that there needs to be support for "more and better before and after school learning and care opportunities for children 6-12". The Coalition also noted that the agreement was not binding on Ontario in regards to additional funding from the province to child care. Without both federal and provincial funding, longer-term child care is unsustainable in Ontario.^[13] When Stephen Harper won the 2006 Canadian federal election, the new government eliminated the bilateral agreements on child care as their first act of power.

[HardCoreBlue]

56 minutes ago, Fatty Liver said:

You're sounding a bit desperate, like Rider fans hoping to snag that last playoff spot through the cross-over despite tanking their season down the backstretch, any loophole will do. You fail to acknowledge how unpalatable the current version of the CPC has become to most Canadians, so hope is all you got.

Let's use this sport analogy in a different way. Apparently Rider fans can say that the RoughRiders are the best team franchise ever in the history of sport because it's their opinion that doesn't have to be backed up with evidence because it's their opinion. Sure I think the Bombers franchise is the number 1 best franchise ever because my blood flows blue and gold but I do know I'll have a hard time backing that up with facts if I get called on it and admit that this isn't true but this is where my heart is.

Just be upfront with your thought processes if your opinions don't match the facts. I think that's a reasonable expectation for us all.