Canadian Politics

[17to85]

He ain't wrong about the political class (conservatives) not even listening to anything regarding climate change. 

[GCn20]

On 2023-01-05 at 2:54 PM, JCon said:

I really have no problem with MLAs leaving after 1 or 2 terms. It was never meant to be a career. I also have no problems with them earning retirement benefits. It's not easy and it can put you behind in your chosen career path. 

I do not like when MLAs leave before the end of their term, unless they have to resign.

------------

Don't forget, after the Harper gov't earned their retirement benefits, they cut it for incoming MPs. 

I have often wondered if we would get governments that care about their choices more if we didn't back load their incentives. Pay them a very good salary while they are voted in with little golden parachute afterwards. Then you might see governments making decisions that the people can get behind because losing their jobs would hurt a lot more. Right now after 8 years, or whatever the pension requisite is, you see "tired" governments who start governing to the wants and needs of their financiers instead of to the wants and needs of the voters at large. Once they've earned their pensions some of the MLAs, MPs stop caring as much.

Edited January 10, 2023 by GCn20

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Tracker said:

Oh, no. It's time to find a scapegoat or scapegoats. It may come down to blaming the voters for not understanding the magnificence of the PC party and platform. Or, maybe the PCs just didn't communicate it well enough.

"Doltness" is endemic to Alberta, particularly in the south.

Your first comment literally applies to every party voted out of power, They all do it. They all believe they were misunderstood, and I've never seen any party of any stripe ever blame their crappy performance for their defeat. Every Liberal, NDP, or PC/CPC government that was defeated was defeated because the people thought they were crap. Good governments don't lose elections. Whether it is Rachel Notley in Alberta, Heather Stefanson in Manitoba, or whoever the last Liberal PM was....they all sucked and were defeated. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by GCn20

[Tracker]

5 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I have often wondered if we would get governments that care about their choices more if we didn't back load their incentives. Pay them a very good salary while they are voted in with little golden parachute afterwards. Then you might see governments making decisions that the people can get behind because losing their jobs would hurt a lot more. Right now after 8 years, or whatever the pension requisite is, you see "tired" governments who start governing to the wants and needs of their financiers instead of to the wants and needs of the voters at large. Once they've earned their pensions some of the MLAs, MPs stop caring as much.

Why not have candidates commit themselves publicly during the election campaign as to what salary they will accept while in office, and then receive raises during and after serving at the same percentage as the average wage in the province or country if they are running federally?

[GCn20]

12 hours ago, Tracker said:

Why not have candidates commit themselves publicly during the election campaign as to what salary they will accept while in office, and then receive raises during and after serving at the same percentage as the average wage in the province or country if they are running federally?

That would be another way to do it...sure. 

[Wideleft]

Poilievre to visit Winnipeg but no questions allowed

By: Tyler SearlePosted: 8:51 PM CST Wednesday, Jan. 11, 2023

 

In a news release that contained little more than a sentence, Conservative Party of Canada Leader Pierre Poilievre announced he’ll be in Winnipeg this week to deliver remarks at an event hosted by a local think tank.

The statement did not include details about what Poilievre plans to speak about nor where the Frontier Centre for Public Policy event will occur Friday, beyond an 11:30 a.m. start time.

Later that day, Poilievre is to speak at a town hall-style event at the airport Hilton hotel, with doors opening at 7 p.m.

The Ontario MP’s office did not respond to requests for comment on Wednesday.

While he invited members of the media to photograph him, Poilievre will not answer questions from reporters, something that has largely become his standard since he took hold of the federal Tory leadership on Sept. 10.

The practice has drawn criticism from political pundits, fellow politicians and journalism experts, who say it is evasive, divisive and dangerous for democracy.

“I think it’s wrong. It’s contrary to the notion of democracy, and I’ve never in my time in politics experienced such behaviour as this,” said Judy Wasylycia-Leis, a former NDP MLA whose political career spanned more than 40 years across all three levels of government.

“If you’re running for office, your obligation is to answer honestly and forthrightly to any questions from the media and the public… If you can’t express your view on a certain policy or position, and you can’t answer or make yourself available, that is just a slap in the face to voters.”

Wasylycia-Leis came under fire multiple times during her political tenure, both fairly and unfairly, she said Wednesday. Still, when reporters came calling, she answered, believing it was necessary for transparency and accountability.

“I hated it,” Wasylycia-Leis said of dealing with the media. “It was the most difficult part of the job, but it is absolutely obligatory.

“(Poilievre) should be open and accountable to people, Parliament and the press. Part of that is answering questions and criticism.”

Poilievre’s rise to Conservative leadership was marked by numerous derisive comments directed toward the media. Instead of participating in what he describes as untrustworthy legacy media, he has opted instead to deliver messages to voters online in edited video clips.

In November, during a rare media appearance, Poilievre bristled at reporters inquiring about his reluctance to answer questions.

“The press gallery believes it should dominate the political discourse,” he told reporters. “I believe we have a big country with people who are not necessarily part of the press gallery.”

Poilievre’s media silence may in fact be a clever marketing tool, meant to help establish his brand as a political outsider invested in the interests of Canada’s working class, despite the fact the 43-year-old is a career politician first elected MP in 2004, said Bryan Peeler, a professor of political science at the University of Manitoba.

“If I was Pierre Poilievre, I would do the same thing. It’s an effective strategy. Now, is it good for democracy? Probably not.”

Shutting out traditional media sows distrust, and insulates Poilievre from answering questions about his history and policies. It bolsters support within his voter base but likely does not appeal to the broader voting public, Peeler said.

It will also likely have little impact on the next election, which Peeler believes the Conservatives will win, regardless of who is helm

“Governments have shelf lives. The Liberals have been in power for three elections already, and voters typically throw out governments, rather than vote them in,” he said.

A main function of journalism is to hold powerful people to account. If Poilievre is eventually elected as prime minister, he may have no choice but to open up to media queries, as Canadians will expect answers from their top politician, said Brent Jolly, president of the Canadian Association of Journalists.

“We shouldn’t cede ground to politicians and not ask challenging questions because, while there is a segment of the population who doesn’t appreciate the work journalists do, I would say a much more significant portion do take this seriously.”

The idea journalists are the enemy has become mainstream in some circles to the benefit of people such as Poilievre, Jolly said. As an industry, journalism has contributed to this perception by leaning into salacious headlines and editorializing, he added.

It is increasingly important for news organizations to establish a distinction between reporters who write facts, and columnists, who represent opinions. Introducing media-literacy training into educational curriculum would help the broader public differentiate between the two, he said.

“Broadly speaking, we are seeing at more polarization by politicians who are sowing seeds of distrust in the media,” Jolly said.

“I ask (the public) to think critically, not just about what is being said, but about what is being left out by people who don’t want their ideas challenged.”

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/2023/01/11/poilievre-to-visit-winnipeg-but-no-questions-allowed

[the watcher]

Re  the discussion on, MLS and MP wages, pension and terms :

All good ideas. I always liked Preston Mannings idea of basing MPs pensions and maybe wages  on the average civil servants pension. The last   I knew  he refused to accept the pension he got.I didn't agree with all of his ideas but I liked that one.

Edited January 12, 2023 by the watcher

[Wideleft]

17 minutes ago, the watcher said:

Re  the discussion on, MLS and MP wages, pension and terms :

All good ideas. I always liked Preston Mannings idea of basing MPs pensions and maybe wages  on the average civil servants pension. The last   I knew  he refused to accept the pension he got.I didn't agree with all of his ideas but I liked that one.

Preston Manning could live 20 retirements without a pension with all the tax-free dark money his "Institute" collects.

[JCon]

Now, they're interfering in prosecutions? Holy hell, the worst trash. 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by JCon

[the watcher]

4 hours ago, Wideleft said:

Preston Manning could live 20 retirements without a pension with all the tax-free dark money his "Institute" collects.

As could Trudeau 1+ 2, Martin, Harper,Chretien and any other lifetime politician . But Manning is the only one who did or will do it. I'm just saying the idea of basing their pensions on civil servants is a good ides.

[Wideleft]

6 minutes ago, the watcher said:

As could Trudeau 1+ 2, Martin, Harper,Chretien and any other lifetime politician . But Manning is the only one who did or will do it. I'm just saying the idea of basing their pensions on civil servants is a good ides.

What Manning did was performative - nothing more and nothing less.  What kind of pension do you think a civil servant would get with only 8 years of pay-ins?

[17to85]

I ask (the public) to think critically

 

 

Asking too much.

[the watcher]

4 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

What Manning did was performative - nothing more and nothing less.  What kind of pension do you think a civil servant would get with only 8 years of pay-ins?

And why would politicians be different ? Getting a full pension on top of other unique benefits after 8 years ( or less ) is ridiculous. 

 

 

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, the watcher said:

And why would politicians be different ? Getting a full pension on top of other unique benefits after 8 years ( or less ) is ridiculous. 

 

 

Only the rich should be politicians because they're the only ones that can afford to take 8 plus years out of their careers to serve us plebs. 

[the watcher]

A newbie MP qualified or not makes "180,000 a year plus extras. It's not just for the rich,. So you are suggesting us" plebs " wouldn't run if they had a more reasonable  pension  structure ?

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, the watcher said:

A newbie MP qualified or not makes "180,000 a year plus extras. It's not just for the rich,. So you are suggesting us" plebs " wouldn't run if they had a more reasonable  pension  structure ?

If it were just that easy but you don't just sign up. There is a huge, unpaid, time commitment to actually get the nomination and win the riding.  If you're rich, like Manning and taking money from rich corps, that's easy. 

 

We really need civics classes again in school. 

 

[the watcher]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

If it were just that easy but you don't just sign up. There is a huge, unpaid, time commitment to actually get the nomination and win the riding.  If you're rich, like Manning and taking money from rich corps, that's easy. 

 

We really need civics classes again in school. 

 

I'm long past school so ditch the attitude. All I'm saying is a more reasonable pension would be better. Basing it more along the lines of other public servants isn't unreasonable. I didn't say make it exactly the same . Lordy ! God help someone on here if they say someone on the right had a good notion.

[JCon]

4 minutes ago, the watcher said:

I'm long past school so ditch the attitude. All I'm saying is a more reasonable pension would be better. Basing it more along the lines of other public servants isn't unreasonable. I didn't say make it exactly the same . Lordy ! God help someone on here if they say someone on the right had a good notion.

I have no problems with a reasonable pension. But, using Manning, who's a grifter, as the model is ridiculous. The guy is sleazy. 

Same with Harper, who got his pension, then cut everyone else off. 

[the watcher]

Lol l Manning was far from  a model anything. I was no fan of the Reform party. I repeat , basing a pension somewhat around civil servants is a good idea. Not exact, just generally. 

[Wideleft]

7 hours ago, the watcher said:

Re  the discussion on, MLS and MP wages, pension and terms :

All good ideas. I always liked Preston Mannings idea of basing MPs pensions and maybe wages  on the average civil servants pension. The last   I knew  he refused to accept the pension he got.I didn't agree with all of his ideas but I liked that one.

 

1 hour ago, the watcher said:

Lol l Manning was far from  a model anything. I was no fan of the Reform party. I repeat , basing a pension somewhat around civil servants is a good idea. Not exact, just generally. 

Not what you said, actually (see above).  Anyway, what does "basing....somewhat around" actually mean?  What does this look like in practical terms rather than in Manningish broad strokes?  8 years of deductions might get you $1000-$1500/month net (lower if you're also going to base MP salaries on avg civil servant salaries as you originally suggested).  

[the watcher]

24 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

 

Not what you said, actually (see above).  Anyway, what does "basing....somewhat around" actually mean?  What does this look like in practical terms rather than in Manningish broad strokes?  8 years of deductions might get you $1000-$1500/month net (lower if you're also going to base MP salaries on avg civil servant salaries as you originally suggested).  

For one thing its 6 years. Next,I have said all along I liked his IDEA .That doesn't suggest I have done a independent study on it. By BASING it around I meant bringing it more in line with . There is  no reason 6 or 8 years of public work should mean you are entitled you to an excessive pension.Lastly as far as the cracks about " civics classes " and " critical thinking " that have been made, I did study Political Science at the U of W many years ago. I have made a life time habit of reading alot of books on philosophy,  religion, politics, current events, science....A simple comment that I liked an idea seems to have fired up everyone. I'll end the discussion  there then.

 

 

 

[HardCoreBlue]

7 minutes ago, the watcher said:

For one thing its 6 years. Next,I have said all along I liked his IDEA .That doesn't suggest I have done a independent study on it. By BASING it around I meant bringing it more in line with . There is  no reason 6 or 8 years of public work should mean you are entitled you to an excessive pension.Lastly as far as the cracks about " civics classes " and " critical thinking " that have been made, I did study Political Science at the U of W many years ago. I have made a life time habit of reading alot of books on philosophy,  religion, politics, current events, science....A simple comment that I liked an idea seems to have fired up everyone. I'll end the discussion  there then.

 

 

 

Welcome to the internet. It's all good. We're all (well at least most) friends here. 🙂

[the watcher]

Just now, HardCoreBlue said:

Welcome to the internet. It's all good. We're all (well at least most) friends here. 🙂

When the pandemic started I got into several nasty confrontations with covidiots. After a while I thought about it and decided no more. It bothered me more than them. And it goes against my moral and spiritual beliefs. So Covid has taught me it ain't worth it.I am better to remove myself.

[HardCoreBlue]

4 minutes ago, the watcher said:

When the pandemic started I got into several nasty confrontations with covidiots. After a while I thought about it and decided no more. It bothered me more than them. And it goes against my moral and spiritual beliefs. So Covid has taught me it ain't worth it.I am better to remove myself.

Yup I hear you.  But for what it’s worth this specific conversation I was lurk following about Pensions, Politicians and Preston Manning between you and others was actually a good conversation to read with a lot of critical thinking going on, differing and legitimate perspectives from a variety of sides. I’ve been on both ends of these types of discussions over the years here that can get a bit heated in their own way BUT at the end of the day it’s all good, we all move on and continue to agree and disagree where we see fit but know ultimately we’re all on the same team and part of the same community with similar and differing viewpoints. 
 

This is much different than engaging with knuckle draggers like covidiots as you mentioned as an example who bring nothing to the table other than their self entitled, misinformed, misguided non critical thinking narrow view on the world.

[Wideleft]

15 hours ago, the watcher said:

For one thing its 6 years. Next,I have said all along I liked his IDEA .That doesn't suggest I have done a independent study on it. By BASING it around I meant bringing it more in line with . There is  no reason 6 or 8 years of public work should mean you are entitled you to an excessive pension.Lastly as far as the cracks about " civics classes " and " critical thinking " that have been made, I did study Political Science at the U of W many years ago. I have made a life time habit of reading alot of books on philosophy,  religion, politics, current events, science....A simple comment that I liked an idea seems to have fired up everyone. I'll end the discussion  there then.

Fair enough.  I do get triggered by sentences that include "Preston Manning had a good idea".