Canadian Politics

[Wideleft]

9 hours ago, 17to85 said:

She can't keep her mouth shut and it's cost her elections in the past when the wild rose were poised to win. 

 

Alberta are blue voters out of habit, but people don't like this talk about paying for health care or paying out the ass for a provincial police force, or letting Smith have control of their pensions... 

 

I suspect what winds up happening is a lot of PC voters who can't stomach voting for the NDP but really dislike Smith just stay home on election day. 

Or they'll vote Western Independence, not knowing that it's really just the same s**t in a different pile.

[HardCoreBlue]

10 hours ago, 17to85 said:

She can't keep her mouth shut and it's cost her elections in the past when the wild rose were poised to win. 

 

Alberta are blue voters out of habit, but people don't like this talk about paying for health care or paying out the ass for a provincial police force, or letting Smith have control of their pensions... 

 

I suspect what winds up happening is a lot of PC voters who can't stomach voting for the NDP but really dislike Smith just stay home on election day. 

You’re being much too kind. This talk of healthcare user fees will have no bearing on their ‘a vote for Notley is a vote for Singh, Trudeau nonsense. 

Apparently Notley’s reign of terror as our Premier ruined everything in Alberta so anything but Notley no matter the cost is the mantra.
 

 

[JCon]

2 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

You’re being much too kind. This talk of healthcare user fees will have no bearing on their ‘a vote for Notley is a vote for Singh, Trudeau nonsense. 

Apparently Notley’s reign of terror as our Premier ruined everything in Alberta so anything but Notley no matter the cost is the mantra.
 

 

I've read that everything wrong with Alberta over the past 50 years boils down to the 4 years the NDP had power. Pretty incredible how powerful that gov't was. They went back in time and squandered generations of financial capital, pissing it away. 

[HardCoreBlue]

28 minutes ago, JCon said:

I've read that everything wrong with Alberta over the past 50 years boils down to the 4 years the NDP had power. Pretty incredible how powerful that gov't was. They went back in time and squandered generations of financial capital, pissing it away. 

Yea isn’t that weird. F’ing socialists.

[rebusrankin]

The thing is Notley is more of a Lougheed Conservative than a raging socialist.

[Noeller]

10 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

The thing is Notley is more of a Lougheed Conservative than a raging socialist.

She is definitely an Orange Con for sure. Has almost no ties to any federal parties based on ideology. 

[Wideleft]

24 minutes ago, Noeller said:

She is definitely an Orange Con for sure. Has almost no ties to any federal parties based on ideology. 

Except she displays compassion, kindness, intelligence and equitability.  As a progressive, I'm fine claiming her for my side.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Wideleft

[Noeller]

6 hours ago, Wideleft said:

Except she displays compassion, kindness, intelligence and equitability.  As a progressive, I'm fine claiming her for my side.

Oh she's great... As 17to85 often says, she's one of the best politicians in Canada. Alberta desperately needs her. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Noeller

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, Noeller said:

Oh she's great... As 17to85 often says, she's onebof the best politicians in Canada. Alberta desperately needs her. 

Actually reminds me of the kind of Premier Gary Doer was.

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

Actually reminds me of the kind of Premier Gary Doer was.

And he's arguably the best premier in charge during my adult life. An apt comparison. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

9 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

You’re being much too kind. This talk of healthcare user fees will have no bearing on their ‘a vote for Notley is a vote for Singh, Trudeau nonsense. 

Apparently Notley’s reign of terror as our Premier ruined everything in Alberta so anything but Notley no matter the cost is the mantra.
 

 

Which is weird, cuz I always thought her party governed right of center. 

[Wideleft]

11 hours ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

Which is weird, cuz I always thought her party governed right of center. 

It all depends on what we consider center now.  Conservative governments have moved so far right that I'd consider 2 PM on a clock "center".  The 9-12 slice doesn't really exist in practicality.

 

[Rich]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

It all depends on what we consider center now.  Conservative governments have moved so far right that I'd consider 2 PM on a clock "center".  The 9-12 slice doesn't really exist in practicality.

 

I don't disagree, but I would be curious on what you would define as centre.

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, Rich said:

I don't disagree, but I would be curious on what you would define as centre.

The idea of centre (to me) is not a point on a line.  To use the clock analogy, it would be between 10 and 11 on the left side of noon and between 1 and 2 on the right side.  

Ideologically, a centrist government maintains public services with appropriate increases in funding based on inflation and gradually moves society forward socially, environmentally and scientifically.  A good centrist government is open to change and progress and allocates funding according to long-term, rather than short-term targets.

I consider the current Liberal government as pretty central on the spectrum.  That they get attacked from both the left (for not changing things more quickly) and the right (woke!) kind of backs that up.

[GCn20]

21 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

The idea of centre (to me) is not a point on a line.  To use the clock analogy, it would be between 10 and 11 on the left side of noon and between 1 and 2 on the right side.  

Ideologically, a centrist government maintains public services with appropriate increases in funding based on inflation and gradually moves society forward socially, environmentally and scientifically.  A good centrist government is open to change and progress and allocates funding according to long-term, rather than short-term targets.

I consider the current Liberal government as pretty central on the spectrum.  That they get attacked from both the left (for not changing things more quickly) and the right (woke!) kind of backs that up.

I agree with most of your assessment of centre with one caveat. I believe that a centrist government is one that works hard to minimize deficit spending and has plans for recovery of said deficits, and is also a government that remains pretty neutral on the size of government. The Chretien/Martin Liberals were centrist. I do not consider this free spending version of the Liberal party to be centrist. They aren't far off, but they are definitely more left leaning than centrist. Too much free spend to be considered centrist, at least by my definition. 

[blue_gold_84]

On 2023-04-22 at 5:52 PM, Brandon said:

 I can understand bashing Manitoba because the province is a mess and Winnipeg is a dying city that's in desperate need of money.   This place is a shell of its former self it's actually sad to drive around and see how bad it is getting.  

And then a few hours later...

On 2023-04-22 at 9:27 PM, Brandon said:

...it's pathetic to generalize a large amount of people with a stereotype.  

Hilarious self-own.

[GCn20]

11 hours ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

Which is weird, cuz I always thought her party governed right of center. 

She would be considered slightly right of centre in almost every other province but Alberta I would think. 

[Wideleft]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

She would be considered slightly right of centre in almost every other province but Alberta I would think. 

This Manitoban disagrees.  Mind you, I don't even think the "What is centre" question really matters anymore.  I highly doubt there are many voters who are actually seeking the most centrist candidate to support, when "centrist" comes in many different flavours.

[GCn20]

36 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

This Manitoban disagrees.  Mind you, I don't even think the "What is centre" question really matters anymore.  I highly doubt there are many voters who are actually seeking the most centrist candidate to support, when "centrist" comes in many different flavours.

I don't think there is centrist anymore, at least at the party leadership levels. It has been completely abandoned in this polarized era of politics, and that is unfortunate. It's just too boring a style of government nowadays in this age of social media that requires soundbites that grab and a mostly uninformed electorate. There is Alberta left/right/centrist and there is the rest of Canada. All three would be considered right of centre by any other province's traditional definition imo.

Edited April 25, 2023 by GCn20

[17to85]

I think centrist exists,  right wingers the world over are just hellbent on dragging everything further and further right. 

I care much less about right or left, all I want it a pragmatic government that is able to step outside of their ideology and government based on facts and evidence. It is why I really like Rachel Notley. She put aside the partisan nonsense and governed in the best interest of Alberta rather than along party lines. The complete opposite of the ucp. 

Dame reason I would rather a federal liberal government than a conservative one despite Trudeau being a complete dope. Cons are all about the party line, liberals are more willing to adapt in the face of evidence. 

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

I think centrist exists,  right wingers the world over are just hellbent on dragging everything further and further right. 

I care much less about right or left, all I want it a pragmatic government that is able to step outside of their ideology and government based on facts and evidence. It is why I really like Rachel Notley. She put aside the partisan nonsense and governed in the best interest of Alberta rather than along party lines. The complete opposite of the ucp. 

Dame reason I would rather a federal liberal government than a conservative one despite Trudeau being a complete dope. Cons are all about the party line, liberals are more willing to adapt in the face of evidence. 

I agree that the right seems to be going more right, but I disagree that the Liberals are not experiencing a sharp turn to the left since Trudeau became leader. Identity politics and massive deficit spending are things I closely associate with left of center politics and the Liberals are giving that to us in spades.

[rebusrankin]

@GCn20 How do you feel about the CPC moving towards the far right, emulating much of the MAGA playbook seen in the USA and embracing conspiracy theories?

[Wideleft]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

I agree that the right seems to be going more right, but I disagree that the Liberals are not experiencing a sharp turn to the left since Trudeau became leader. Identity politics and massive deficit spending are things I closely associate with left of center politics and the Liberals are giving that to us in spades.

"Identity politics" - also known as looking beyond the straight/white voting bloc.

Meanwhile, the right is literally demonizing trans people because they've run out of "others" to demonize.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Wideleft

[blue_gold_84]

8 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

@GCn20 How do you feel about the CPC moving towards the far right, emulating much of the MAGA playbook seen in the USA and embracing conspiracy theories?

[JCon]

TIL Harper was a big lefty. Huge, if true.