Canadian Politics

[GCn20]

43 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

@GCn20 How do you feel about the CPC moving towards the far right, emulating much of the MAGA playbook seen in the USA and embracing conspiracy theories?

Not great. Uneasy about the entire state of politics right now. 

37 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

"Identity politics" - also known as looking beyond the straight/white voting block.

Meanwhile, the right is literally demonizing trans people because they've run out of "others" to demonize.

Yes, the whole trans thing is gross. The far right is gross....as is the far left.

33 minutes ago, JCon said:

TIL Harper was a big lefty. Huge, if true. 

Harper never ran deficits even remotely comparable to Trudeau's.

23 hours ago, Wideleft said:

Except she displays compassion, kindness, intelligence and equitability.  As a progressive, I'm fine claiming her for my side.

As progressive as Alberta will ever allow her to be for sure.

Edited April 25, 2023 by GCn20

[Mark H.]

56 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I agree that the right seems to be going more right, but I disagree that the Liberals are not experiencing a sharp turn to the left since Trudeau became leader. Identity politics and massive deficit spending are things I closely associate with left of center politics and the Liberals are giving that to us in spades.

A large portion of the deficit spending was due to Covid.  Did they overspend on that? Probably.

But it's not like they could just do nothing. Even if they hadn't closed work places, most of the rest of the world did

Canada's economy would have slowed down - regardless of any approach that our governments took (or didn't take)

[HardCoreBlue]

39 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

A large portion of the deficit spending was due to Covid.  Did they overspend on that? Probably.

But it's not like they could just do nothing. Even if they hadn't closed work places, most of the rest of the world did

Canada's economy would have slowed down - regardless of any approach that our governments took (or didn't take)

Ahhhhh context. A beautiful thing (to some).

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Mark H. said:

A large portion of the deficit spending was due to Covid.  Did they overspend on that? Probably.

But it's not like they could just do nothing. Even if they hadn't closed work places, most of the rest of the world did

Canada's economy would have slowed down - regardless of any approach that our governments took (or didn't take)

If they didn't spend during covid the economy would have been in the absolute toilet and people would be destitute.  Did some people get money that shouldn't have? Absolutely. But it kept people employed and businesses operating and provided a huge bounce back opportunity for the economy. 

It didn't cause inflation contrary to what the right wing talking points say. 

[Wideleft]

2 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

If they didn't spend during covid the economy would have been in the absolute toilet and people would be destitute.  Did some people get money that shouldn't have? Absolutely. But it kept people employed and businesses operating and provided a huge bounce back opportunity for the economy. 

It didn't cause inflation contrary to what the right wing talking points say. 

And we were the quickest to show economic recovery in the G7 coming out of the worst of the pandemic.  UK and Italy have shown more growth since Feb 2022, but their economies were truly in the sh!++er.

[GCn20]

11 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

If they didn't spend during covid the economy would have been in the absolute toilet and people would be destitute.  Did some people get money that shouldn't have? Absolutely. But it kept people employed and businesses operating and provided a huge bounce back opportunity for the economy. 

It didn't cause inflation contrary to what the right wing talking points say. 

3 things....1. Without pandemic related spending the Liberals still posted deficits that were twice as high as any year in history

                 2. Has the economy bounced back? The upcoming recession tells me no.

                 3. Deficit spending in isolation is not a bad thing when necessary. However, continued deficit spending without a recovery plan is not good financial management.

Everybody is so willing to give the Liberals a free pass on their free spend because of the pandemic. Look at what was spent on the pandemic and what the overall spend is. The number is staggering.

Edited April 25, 2023 by GCn20

[blue_gold_84]

TIL deficit spending is excusable if conservatives do it but inexcusable if liberals do it.

[GCn20]

18 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

TIL deficit spending is excusable if conservatives do it but inexcusable if liberals do it.

Deficit spending is not one size fits all....hard to compare an 8 billion deficit to 300 billion deficit, and as I have stated earlier having a recovery plan AND STICKING TO IT, is massive. But yes, I was not a fan of Harper doing it either, nor did I excuse it.  I voted against Harper's government for failing to return to balanced budgets.

Edited April 25, 2023 by GCn20

[blue_gold_84]

The last fiscal year (2021-22) is showing a deficit of $90.2B (https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/services/publications/annual-financial-report/2022/report.html)

[17to85]

43 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

TIL deficit spending is excusable if conservatives do it but inexcusable if liberals do it.

Same as it ever was.

48 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

2. Has the economy bounced back? The upcoming recession tells me no.

The economy bounced back huge and quick. The inflation fighting measures of the bank of Canada are what is going to push things into a recession which is their goal because they only have one tool to fix inflation. 

[Mark H.]

5 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Deficit spending is not one size fits all....hard to compare an 8 billion deficit to 300 billion deficit, and as I have stated earlier having a recovery plan AND STICKING TO IT, is massive. But yes, I was not a fan of Harper doing it either, nor did I excuse it.  I voted against Harper's government for failing to return to balanced budgets.

When it comes to which government has had more deficit spending, there is not a whole lot choose from

Chretien / Martin reduced the government debt, Harper kept it about the same with slight increases, but it spiked during Trudeau's tenure

But the greatest increases in Canadian government debt per person happened during the two world wars

HISTORICAL CONTEXT MATTERS

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/examining-federal-debt-in-canada-by-prime-ministers-since-confederation-2022.pdf

For example, when you factor in population growth, the current spike in government debt is actually not that much - the total debt was approx. $47 000 per person by the end of 2022 (see p. 8 of the link)

[rebusrankin]

We've talked a lot about Smith's plans in Alberta but here in Manitoba Heather's Cons seem to be pushing privatization of healthcare as well. See letter from the Neurologist in Tuesday's WFP and the comments from the two sleep apnea specialists. Healthcare is screwed if these assholes get elected again.

[Wideleft]

12 hours ago, Mark H. said:

When it comes to which government has had more deficit spending, there is not a whole lot choose from

Chretien / Martin reduced the government debt, Harper kept it about the same with slight increases, but it spiked during Trudeau's tenure

But the greatest increases in Canadian government debt per person happened during the two world wars

HISTORICAL CONTEXT MATTERS

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/examining-federal-debt-in-canada-by-prime-ministers-since-confederation-2022.pdf

For example, when you factor in population growth, the current spike in government debt is actually not that much - the total debt was approx. $47 000 per person by the end of 2022 (see p. 8 of the link)

I hesitate to like anything from the Fraser Institute, but thanks!

[Wideleft]

20 hours ago, JCon said:

TIL Harper was a big lefty. Huge, if true. 

"Is it now a little clearer why the ex-PM offered a generic endorsement of the UCP, rather than a personal one of its leader? The fact that Danielle Smith is a dubious political bar of soap from a marketing point of view is only part of the story.

The other part is, just what is an endorsement from Stephen Harper worth these days?

After all, he is no longer the populist boy-politician collecting donations in KFC barrels in Calgary basements. Six-and-a-half years after leaving politics, Harper is now a full blown globalist entrepreneur raking in big money with his consulting firm Harper & Associates. His job description apparently entails cozying up to human rights violator Saudi Arabia and tweeting his congratulations to authoritarian politician Viktor Orban for his latest win in Hungary.

And there is hay to be made right here in Canada. A case in point. Harper’s firm is paid $240,000 a year by the province of Saskatchewan, in part to open doors for Premier Scott Moe that Harper walked through as prime minister. That’s why Harper was included on a recent provincial government trip to India, a junket that created controversy for Moe back home. Why did he have to drag a highly paid consultant along?

Who can tell the exact angle Harper is trying to play by inserting himself now into Alberta’s election conversation? But here’s one way to read it.

What we have in Danielle Smith is a politician who is hard to sell, being promoted by a self-styled champion of the little guy who is now very much a member of the elite he has spent so much time demonizing."

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/04/26/Stephen-Harper-Endorses-Danielle-Smith/

[GCn20]

12 hours ago, Mark H. said:

When it comes to which government has had more deficit spending, there is not a whole lot choose from

Chretien / Martin reduced the government debt, Harper kept it about the same with slight increases, but it spiked during Trudeau's tenure

But the greatest increases in Canadian government debt per person happened during the two world wars

HISTORICAL CONTEXT MATTERS

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/examining-federal-debt-in-canada-by-prime-ministers-since-confederation-2022.pdf

For example, when you factor in population growth, the current spike in government debt is actually not that much - the total debt was approx. $47 000 per person by the end of 2022 (see p. 8 of the link)

Historical context does matter and population growth may help keep the numbers more manageable but as a % of GDP the debt has increased at the highest rate since WW2 under Trudeau by a substantial margin. What you will notice is that governments reigned in spending and brought down the debt after each significant spike, and that is vastly important to our economic success. The Liberals seem intent on not doing so. I am not criticizing pandemic spending, it was very much like a world war in terms of effect on the economy and the need for spending. What I will criticize is that there has been zero effort made to reign in spending since and that is very troubling to me.

8 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

"Is it now a little clearer why the ex-PM offered a generic endorsement of the UCP, rather than a personal one of its leader? The fact that Danielle Smith is a dubious political bar of soap from a marketing point of view is only part of the story.

The other part is, just what is an endorsement from Stephen Harper worth these days?

After all, he is no longer the populist boy-politician collecting donations in KFC barrels in Calgary basements. Six-and-a-half years after leaving politics, Harper is now a full blown globalist entrepreneur raking in big money with his consulting firm Harper & Associates. His job description apparently entails cozying up to human rights violator Saudi Arabia and tweeting his congratulations to authoritarian politician Viktor Orban for his latest win in Hungary.

And there is hay to be made right here in Canada. A case in point. Harper’s firm is paid $240,000 a year by the province of Saskatchewan, in part to open doors for Premier Scott Moe that Harper walked through as prime minister. That’s why Harper was included on a recent provincial government trip to India, a junket that created controversy for Moe back home. Why did he have to drag a highly paid consultant along?

Who can tell the exact angle Harper is trying to play by inserting himself now into Alberta’s election conversation? But here’s one way to read it.

What we have in Danielle Smith is a politician who is hard to sell, being promoted by a self-styled champion of the little guy who is now very much a member of the elite he has spent so much time demonizing."

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/04/26/Stephen-Harper-Endorses-Danielle-Smith/

She is an absolute wingnut and I hope she is defeated thoroughly.

[Wideleft]

3 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Historical context does matter and population growth may help keep the numbers more manageable but as a % of GDP the debt has increased at the highest rate since WW2 under Trudeau by a substantial margin. What you will notice is that governments reigned in spending and brought down the debt after each significant spike, and that is vastly important to our economic success. The Liberals seem intent on not doing so. I am not criticizing pandemic spending, it was very much like a world war in terms of effect on the economy and the need for spending. What I will criticize is that there has been zero effort made to reign in spending since and that is very troubling to me.

So you want cuts, then.

The point of a budget is to balance revenue and spending (over the short and medium to long term).  To suggest that the Federal budget in itself does not involve spending controls is a little simplistic.

So what are we cutting?

[Mark H.]

21 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

I hesitate to like anything from the Fraser Institute, but thanks!

I was expecting that!

[GCn20]

1 hour ago, Wideleft said:

So you want cuts, then.

The point of a budget is to balance revenue and spending (over the short and medium to long term).  To suggest that the Federal budget in itself does not involve spending controls is a little simplistic.

So what are we cutting?

The fat. We have seen government bloat since Trudeau took charge. Reign it in. The size of the public service has increased 31% in the past 7 years at a cost of 151 billion dollars.  I would start there.

Edited April 26, 2023 by GCn20

[Wideleft]

21 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The fat. We have seen government bloat since Trudeau took charge. Reign it in. The size of the public service has increased 31% in the past 7 years at a cost of 151 billion dollars.  I would start there.

The "fat".  Define, please.

Palliser government cut 10% (the "fat") out of Southern Health's budget without defining "fat".  Southern Health ran balanced budgets for years prior.  That turned out well, didn't it?

Edited April 26, 2023 by Wideleft

[Sard]

21 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The fat. We have seen government bloat since Trudeau took charge. Reign it in. The size of the public service has increased 31% in the past 7 years at a cost of 151 billion dollars.  I would start there.

What does that actually mean though?  You say the public service has increased 31%, so what services are being delivered by that public service that can be cut?

[Tracker]

20 hours ago, Wideleft said:

And we were the quickest to show economic recovery in the G7 coming out of the worst of the pandemic.  UK and Italy have shown more growth since Feb 2022, but their economies were truly in the sh!++er.

UK's minister of the Exchequer (Finance) yesterday stated that Brits need to get used to "being poorer". The Johnson-Rishi  economic plan is working 

 

[Wideleft]

1 minute ago, Sard said:

What does that actually mean though?  You say the public service has increased 31%, so what services are being delivered by that public service that can be cut?

Apparently passports should take 2 years - not 1 year to process.  

[Wideleft]

Did a little digging (always seem to need to for some claims).  The Fed public service is now 50,000 spots larger than in 2010.  Our population has grown by 5 million over that same time.  Seems sensible to me.

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/innovation/human-resources-statistics/population-federal-public-service.html

 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, rebusrankin said:

We've talked a lot about Smith's plans in Alberta but here in Manitoba Heather's Cons seem to be pushing privatization of healthcare as well. See letter from the Neurologist in Tuesday's WFP and the comments from the two sleep apnea specialists. Healthcare is screwed if these assholes get elected again.

Conservatives everywhere across the country. It's disgusting.

[HardCoreBlue]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Did a little digging (always seem to need to for some claims).  The Fed public service is now 50,000 spots larger than in 2010.  Our population has grown by 5 million over that same time.  Seems sensible to me.

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/innovation/human-resources-statistics/population-federal-public-service.html

 

Facts versus slogans.