Canadian Politics

[GCJenks]

4 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Not sure any government can do much about interest rates, what they can do is a lot more to ensure a reliable affordable housing market. Interest alone isn't keeping first timers out of the market, super heated real estate markets are.

1. Put caps on house flipping profits to cost plus 10%.

2. Limit rental incomes to cost plus 10 for the first 5 years of ownership.

 

One of the reasons that the housing market is over heated is the overall shortage of housing. The government is funding the arrival of thousands of immigrants and refugees but nothing to support housing for them. We need a massive influx of new housing like we did after the Second World War. If there was more housing we would have such high prices. 

[17to85]

5 hours ago, Mark F said:

you mean the government should try to influence  and regulate the "free " market?

radical.

scratch a right winger, and find  lurking there, a socialist. 

Was going to say, sounds a lot like government over reach and limiting the market. Big government interfering in entrepreneurs ability to make money. 

What needs to happen  is more housing needs to be built. There is a shortage and it's only getting worse. 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

13 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Yes Mr. Pollievre. That's why we see global inflation. Because the Canadian government prevented people from going homeless and businesses from shutting down during the pandemic.  It's not war in Ukraine putting stress on global good supplies, it's not a loss in productivity because of all the shutdowns, its not blatant corporate greed. 

I'm just saying for every action there's a equal & opposte reaction. Trudeau ramped up spending. Yeah, not saying it wasn't needed as people were forced to stay home with the health restrictions but then instead of cutting back as restrictions eased, the Libs kept spending, spending & spending. They're still spending. How can that not cause inflation? No, it's not the war in Ukraine. It's just papering the money supply. 

[17to85]

Just now, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'm just saying for every action there's a equal & opposte reaction. Trudeau ramped up spending. Yeah, not saying it wasn't needed as people were forced to stay home with the health restrictions but then instead of cutting back as restrictions eased, the Libs kept spending, spending & spending. They're still spending. How can that not cause inflation? No, it's not the war in Ukraine. It's just papering the money supply. 

Then why is inflation happening around the globe? Ukraine supplies a lot of food to Europe and Russia a lot of energy. Those two fighting had impacted that which has a ripple effect across the rest of the world. You had a lot of the manufacturing shut down  during the pandemic and it was slow to ramp back up to meet demand as economies came back on line. These things push inflation more than government spending.

[WildPath]

6 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'm just saying for every action there's a equal & opposte reaction. Trudeau ramped up spending. Yeah, not saying it wasn't needed as people were forced to stay home with the health restrictions but then instead of cutting back as restrictions eased, the Libs kept spending, spending & spending. They're still spending. How can that not cause inflation? No, it's not the war in Ukraine. It's just papering the money supply. 

If it is solely to do with Trudeau's spending, why have we done much better against inflation than other countries around the world that spent less than us?

[SpeedFlex27]

20 hours ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

https://themeasureofaplan.com/canadian-housing-affordability/

 

Cool site that gets you all the info you need. Make sure you use the drop-down menus above each graph:

 

In 1999-   the average cost of a house was $83,738  the average household income was $42,300

In 2022 the average price of a home was $364,300, the average household income was $82,900

 

The price of a home is nearly 4 times higher now and our household income has only doubled.

Yeah, well aware but here in Calgary the cost of a house was $82,000 in 1980. Our first house in Fairview (a suburb in YYC) in 1990 cost around $135,000. Our income was about $72,000 a year. Interest rate was 13.75%. So, the price was a little more than double our income but that god awful interest rate!!! How do you think that rate of 13.75% impacted our payments??? That interest rate would be very similar to today with prices 4 times higher. It was no picnic making mortgage payments. It was damned hard. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[Mark H.]

21 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

No, it's not the war in Ukraine. It's just papering the money supply. 

Incorrect. It's both. Wars cause inflation - always have, always will.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

5 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Yeah, well aware but here in Calgary the cost of a house was $82,000 in 1980. Our first house in Fairview (a suburb in YYC) in 1990 cost around $135,000. Our income was about $72,000 a year. Interest rate was 13.75%. So, the price was a little more than double our income but that god awful interest rate!!! How do you think that rate of 13.75% impacted our payments??? That interest rate would be very similar to today with prices 4 times higher. It was no picnic making mortgage payments. It was damned hard. 

Yup, totally feel for you. Those are insane interest rates...

[SpeedFlex27]

2 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

Yup, totally feel for you. Those are insane interest rates...

Sadly, when we bought our house we thought we got a great deal!!! Thirty three years later, I just shake my head in disbelief.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

21 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Incorrect. It's both. Wars cause inflation - always have, always will.

Not really. What war was going on in 1975-90 other than the Iran-Iraq war between the Iranians & Iraqis, The War in Afghanistan between the Russians & Afghanis & the short lived Gulf War? The Bosnian War in the 90's didn't negatively affect interest rates as I recall. Rates came down not up. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by SpeedFlex27

[SpeedFlex27]

35 minutes ago, WildPath said:

If it is solely to do with Trudeau's spending, why have we done much better against inflation than other countries around the world that spent less than us?

Yes, 8% wasn't much, was it? With the convuluted way the CPI is figured out not including grocery prices in reality it's more like 14 & 15%. Prices are still out of control. They're not coming down. 

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, GCJenks said:

One of the reasons that the housing market is over heated is the overall shortage of housing. The government is funding the arrival of thousands of immigrants and refugees but nothing to support housing for them. We need a massive influx of new housing like we did after the Second World War. If there was more housing we would have such high prices. 

What this description makes me think about is the Hood or "Projects" in Chicago, Detroit & New York. We need more housing yes, but if governments go & overbuild then there's the risk that the prices fall too fast & these housing units fall rapidly into derelection & disrepair. There has to be a balance & that's the hard part. 

[GCJenks]

39 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What this description makes me think about is the Hood or "Projects" in Chicago, Detroit & New York. We need more housing yes, but if governments go & overbuild then there's the risk that the prices fall too fast & these housing units fall rapidly into derelection & disrepair. There has to be a balance & that's the hard part. 

Think more about the area in Winnipeg along Kenaston or over off Ness near Moray. This what I am talking about, not the ghettos created in areas of England or the USA. A more modern example would be an area of Transcona that has been developing for about 5 years Park City Common, a mix of commercial and residential. Upfront funding to get options like this moving faster is one thing they have done, now need to do more. 

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Not really. What war was going on in 1975-90 other than the Iran-Iraq war between the Iranians & Iraqis, The War in Afghanistan between the Russians & Afghanis & the short lived Gulf War? The Bosnian War in the 90's didn't negatively affect interest rates as I recall. Rates came down not up. 

Ukraine & Russia produce 1/4 of the world"s wheat. That is an ENORMOUS impact on the global economy.

Yes, you can find wars that had less impact, absolutely 

[17to85]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Not really. What war was going on in 1975-90 other than the Iran-Iraq war between the Iranians & Iraqis, The War in Afghanistan between the Russians & Afghanis & the short lived Gulf War? The Bosnian War in the 90's didn't negatively affect interest rates as I recall. Rates came down not up. 

It's not 1975-1990 anymore. The world has changed. Economies globally have become even more tied and a hiccup in another country can have a huge impact on supply. China shuts down where does the west's cheap **** come from? We don't manufacture anything ourselves. 

[SpeedFlex27]

You keep spouting that it ain't this year or it ain't that year anymore. Fundamentals of economics never change. The B of C was buying TBbills & Govt bonds to create more money in the 80's just like they do today. We run up our long term debt to create more money & that debt has to be serviced with higher interest rates. 

[SpeedFlex27]

45 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Ukraine & Russia produce 1/4 of the world"s wheat. That is an ENORMOUS impact on the global economy.

Yes, you can find wars that had less impact, absolutely 

So then, you can't say all wars cause inflation. It's the borrowing of money on world markets by countries that don't have it & the servicing of those debts that cause inflation & ultimately higher interest rates. Look at the US & it's $31.4 trillion dollar plus debt & how the President has to go to Congress to make a deal with Congressional leaders to keep raising the debt ceiling to keep the us government going. The only reason the US economy doesn't collapse is because it's the biggest in the world.

[WildPath]

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Yes, 8% wasn't much, was it? With the convuluted way the CPI is figured out not including grocery prices in reality it's more like 14 & 15%. Prices are still out of control. They're not coming down. 

I'm not pointing out that we didn't and don't have inflation, but pointing out that it was experienced elsewhere in places that spent less than we have. That should have been obvious based on the quote you were responding to. If it was due to Trudeau's spending as you say, then other places wouldn't have had inflation or inflation would be directly correlated to a country's spending which it is not.

[Mark H.]

6 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

So then, you can't say all wars cause inflation. It's the borrowing of money on world markets by countries that don't have it & the servicing of those debts that cause inflation & ultimately higher interest rates. Look at the US & it's $31.4 trillion dollar plus debt & how the President has to go to Congress to make a deal with Congressional leaders to keep raising the debt ceiling to keep the us government going. The only reason the US economy doesn't collapse is because it's the biggest in the world.

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/inflation-aftermath-wars-and-pandemics

[GCn20]

17 hours ago, GCJenks said:

One of the reasons that the housing market is over heated is the overall shortage of housing. The government is funding the arrival of thousands of immigrants and refugees but nothing to support housing for them. We need a massive influx of new housing like we did after the Second World War. If there was more housing we would have such high prices. 

Yep. We need to stop the churn of profiteering on existing housing stock and make it easier for developers to build.

[GCn20]

17 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Was going to say, sounds a lot like government over reach and limiting the market. Big government interfering in entrepreneurs ability to make money. 

What needs to happen  is more housing needs to be built. There is a shortage and it's only getting worse. 

 

It's not interference it's regulation for the greater good. No different than any other restrictions applied to various markets. We just had a multi page discussion about Manitoba privatizing liquor sales, and the opponents to the public only WITH price fixation call me socialist for this? My goodness, our current liquor sales system is about as socialist as you can get outside of communism.

Edited May 21, 2023 by GCn20

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

28 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

It's not interference it's regulation for the greater good. No different than any other restrictions applied to various markets. We just had a multi page discussion about Manitoba privatizing liquor sales, and the opponents to the public only WITH price fixation call me socialist for this? My goodness, our current liquor sales system is about as socialist as you can get outside of communism.

Regulation IS interference...

 

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, Wanna-B-Fanboy said:

Regulation IS interference...

 

Don't tell that to Wall Street.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Don't tell that to Wall Street.

Wallstreet already knows this...

You can tell by the fact they spend a **** tonne on government lobbyists to gut regulations...

But, you already knew that.

Which leads me to the point: what game of silly bugger are playing at?

Edited May 21, 2023 by Wanna-B-Fanboy

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

It's not interference it's regulation for the greater good. No different than any other restrictions applied to various markets. We just had a multi page discussion about Manitoba privatizing liquor sales, and the opponents to the public only WITH price fixation call me socialist for this? My goodness, our current liquor sales system is about as socialist as you can get outside of communism.

The whole purpose for an elected government is for it to mediate between all the competing and dynamic interests of society to ensure domestic tranquillity and a balance that allows for a good quality of economic and social life. As soon as you institute laws like banning homicide and violence, for two small examples, you are, by definition, interfering. The degree and scope of government intervention is the part where argument comes.