Canadian Politics

[Wideleft]

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Tax cuts are deficit spending? WTF?

Our own Manitoba government is borrowing money to fund tax cuts.

[GCn20]

2 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Our own Manitoba government is borrowing money to fund tax cuts.

It can happen. However, it is ridiculous to suggest that tax cuts are automatically deficit spending. It's simply not true. If you people want to make that kind of leap of logic than I propose to call tax cuts a form of consumer social programming.,

Edited May 25, 2023 by GCn20

[blue_gold_84]

5 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

How very convenient you cut the chart off at 2014.

I provided the data to refute yet another one of your inaccurate claims from yesterday:

On 2023-05-24 at 1:38 PM, GCn20 said:

Balanced budgets are difficult but not impossible. Budgeting for them and not making them by a small amount was the norm right up to 2015. Certainly there are planned deficits...but nothing even remotely compares to what we are seeing right now.

Those two charts I presented - if you bothered to pay attention - demonstrates how often federal governments run deficit irrespective of the party in charge.

If you feel so inclined to talk about LPC spending since 2015 as it relates to the federal deficit discussion, fill your boots. Do your own work.

7 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Tell me why lefty is part of the problem when the term righty is not?

Where has anyone labeled you that? You're the self-proclaimed "centrist voter," anyway.

Try some effort for a change. Instead of peddling conspiracy theories and other nonsensical talking points.

[GCn20]

14 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I provided the data to refute yet another one of your inaccurate claims from yesterday:

Those two charts I presented - if you bothered to pay attention - demonstrates how often federal governments run deficit irrespective of the party in charge.

If you feel so inclined to talk about LPC spending since 2015 as it relates to the federal deficit discussion, fill your boots. Do your own work.

Where has anyone labeled you that? You're the self-proclaimed "centrist voter," anyway.

Try some effort for a change. Instead of peddling conspiracy theories and other nonsensical talking points.

If you bothered to pay attention to what you are reading I stated very clearly that balanced budgets are not often attained. They are often planned for, promised, and rarely delivered. That is exactly what I said. You putting up a chart doesn't disprove that. I am not against deficit spending if it is within the realm of reasonable amounts, and in times of need. What I am against is completely irresponsible, irrational, and ridiculously high deficit spending that never slowed down after the pandemic at a time that there is absolutely ZERO need for this level of irresponsibility. It is a gross mismanagement of the public purse. You can call that conspiracy theory, or nonsensical, but the majority of Canadians agree and that will be reflected in the next election. Oh boy....the victory lap I'm going to do when Trudeau is turfed in the near future is going to sicken you.

[blue_gold_84]

Apparently, I expected too much from the resident rabble-rouser who would rather engage in petulant retorts, moving goalposts, repeated logical fallacies, and the same tired baseless assumptions*.

So, here's a chart showing the most up-to-date federal budget management: https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/services/publications/annual-financial-report/2022/report.html

One fiscal year of excessive spending relative to revenues (it's almost as if there was some major unprecedented global socioeconomic crisis* during that time, AKA a time of need) - and then a significant recovery for the 2021-22 fiscal year and a deficit on par with the 2009-10 fiscal year relative to the nation's GDP.

And the projection for 2023 looks to be relatively positive: https://www2.deloitte.com/ca/en/pages/future-of-canada-center/articles/federal-budget.html

Quote

According to the government’s new economic projections, lower GDP growth will reduce revenues by an average of $5.7 billion a year over the next five years compared to its projections in the Fall Economic Statement. This deterioration has left the federal government in a deficit of $35.3 billion for 2023.

I'd say you're welcome but gratitude and humility seem as non-existent for you as the effort to engage in worthwhile discussion in this thread.

* I'm not a LPC supporter (Daniel Blaikie is my MP and I voted for him in the last two federal elections)

[17to85]

4 hours ago, GCn20 said:

Tax cuts are deficit spending? WTF?

They sure are.  100%. A deficit is a higher expense than revenue.... so what happens when you cut taxes? You decrease revenue and increase your deficit.

[WildPath]

4 hours ago, GCn20 said:

If you bothered to pay attention to what you are reading I stated very clearly that balanced budgets are not often attained. They are often planned for, promised, and rarely delivered. That is exactly what I said. You putting up a chart doesn't disprove that. I am not against deficit spending if it is within the realm of reasonable amounts, and in times of need. What I am against is completely irresponsible, irrational, and ridiculously high deficit spending that never slowed down after the pandemic at a time that there is absolutely ZERO need for this level of irresponsibility. It is a gross mismanagement of the public purse. You can call that conspiracy theory, or nonsensical, but the majority of Canadians agree and that will be reflected in the next election. Oh boy....the victory lap I'm going to do when Trudeau is turfed in the near future is going to sicken you.

If you think you are coming here to poke the bear or own the libs, I'm pretty confident you are doing the opposite. You spout off beliefs that are not backed up, reject legitimate posts backed up by good sources and then move the goal posts when you are corrected by posters. I would love to have a true conservative posting on this board that is able to sufficiently back up their beliefs to provide good dialogue, but you can't seem to do that. Your method of "dialogue" is simply serving the show there really isn't any case for a conservative vote.

I will stick by my conspiratorial hypothesis that you are an agent of Trudeau sent to engender sympathy for the Liberals from bad faith attacks.

[17to85]

9 minutes ago, WildPath said:

If you think you are coming here to poke the bear or own the libs, I'm pretty confident you are doing the opposite. You spout off beliefs that are not backed up, reject legitimate posts backed up by good sources and then move the goal posts when you are corrected by posters. I would love to have a true conservative posting on this board that is able to sufficiently back up their beliefs to provide good dialogue, but you can't seem to do that. Your method of "dialogue" is simply serving the show there really isn't any case for a conservative vote.

I will stick by my conspiratorial hypothesis that you are an agent of Trudeau sent to engender sympathy for the Liberals from bad faith attacks.

This is what conservatives have become.

[SpeedFlex27]

23 hours ago, bigg jay said:

Don't worry, he won't run out of things to hate. 

You see, anyone here who has another viewpoint other than leftist progressives are labelled racists & haters. Maybe if the mods actually moderated this thread there'd be less of this garbage. 

[17to85]

35 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You see, anyone here who has another viewpoint other than leftist progressives are labelled racists & haters. Maybe if the mods actually moderated this thread there'd be less of this garbage. 

No, just that anyone willingly supporting modern conservatives is endorsing backwards knuckle dragging policy. Conservatives now are rage farmers with no ideas for governing. They simply stole hate and anger to gain power and that's the end.

[bigg jay]

43 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

You see, anyone here who has another viewpoint other than leftist progressives are labelled racists & haters. Maybe if the mods actually moderated this thread there'd be less of this garbage. 

My point was that you seem to have an absurd amount of anger/hate for many things and that is not limited to politics, or having a different point of view.  I could have posted the same thing in a football thread and it would be just as valid.

 

[Noeller]

It's always yelling and always so angry.... About everything. 

[17to85]

39 minutes ago, Noeller said:

It's always yelling and always so angry.... About everything. 

To be fair, those kids really should get off his lawn

[GCJenks]

8 hours ago, 17to85 said:

No, just that anyone willingly supporting modern conservatives is endorsing backwards knuckle dragging policy. Conservatives now are rage farmers with no ideas for governing. They simply stole hate and anger to gain power and that's the end.

So much this. As a conservative voter for the first 30 years I was allowed to vote it has been hard to move away from some of the ideals I believe in. It took a lot of reading and education to realize that the conservatives I once supported no longer exist. If I was to search back to the time of the last federal election I am pretty sure I would find a comment that I felt like a political orphan, no party represents what my personal beliefs are and I am left to vote for who supports my most important beliefs. One thing I absolutely cannot support is hatred, I have always told my son there are only 2 things that are worth the emotional investment of hatred; war and racism. If you hate something other than that you really need to examine if that is the best of yourself and if you wouldn’t be energy spent better elsewhere. It was a massive change for me when I moved from hating the Riders to now the pity I feel for them… It is fun taking the shots and mocking them, but really only because they keep doing it to themselves…

[Mark F]

12 hours ago, WildPath said:

You spout off beliefs that are not backed up, reject legitimate posts backed up by good sources and then move the goal posts when you are corrected by posters.

nailed it with this.

His (or her) posts are devoid of facts, actual verified numbers.   just strong opinions. on and on and on ad nauseum.

odd.

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Mark F

[GCn20]

12 hours ago, WildPath said:

If you think you are coming here to poke the bear or own the libs, I'm pretty confident you are doing the opposite. You spout off beliefs that are not backed up, reject legitimate posts backed up by good sources and then move the goal posts when you are corrected by posters. I would love to have a true conservative posting on this board that is able to sufficiently back up their beliefs to provide good dialogue, but you can't seem to do that. Your method of "dialogue" is simply serving the show there really isn't any case for a conservative vote.

I will stick by my conspiratorial hypothesis that you are an agent of Trudeau sent to engender sympathy for the Liberals from bad faith attacks.

I am not here to own the Liberals. I am here simply to present a different viewpoint to the echo chamber. I have not seen many arguments here that are good faith by anyone. That's just straight up fact. All I've seen on these threads are attacks against other posters who don't agree disguised as some kind of moral high ground. Same as what we see out of the modern day Liberals. When someone says they don't like the Liberals or the politics of the left they are not met with facts on the matter, they are met with insults and called knuckle draggers, or angry old men....and that's just the last page of this thread. It's really quite sad how you guys pretend to be having civil discussion when it is anything but that so I will continue on, so that people unacquainted with this forum know that groupthink isn't mandated at this web site. 

Bad faith argument...sheesh...like saying cutting taxes is the same thing as deficit spending...like there are only two lines on a federal budget. That's a ridiculous bad faith argument perpetrated by the tax and spend community with no basis in mathematics, accounting, or reality. Don't pretend that bad faith is exclusive to the right....I've seen a lot of the left leaning crowd here say some absolutely ridiculous crap.

Edited May 26, 2023 by GCn20

[GCn20]

13 hours ago, 17to85 said:

They sure are.  100%. A deficit is a higher expense than revenue.... so what happens when you cut taxes? You decrease revenue and increase your deficit.

No. That is silly. You should take a math class, One does not automatically make the other happen. I can slash taxes and balance a budget, or even run a surplus. An economy has many moving parts and taxation is only one of a ton of lines on the ledger. Saying that a tax cut is deficit spending is silly and it is wrong and anyone with a grade 10 understanding of accounting would tell you that. Deficit spending happens when all revenues are less than all expenditures. Not one revenue stream. It is patently false to say that tax cuts are the same as deficit spending.

As a businessman for over forty years, I have seen revenue streams come and revenue streams go and I have even axed revenue streams out. There is no correlation between one of many revenue streams and the bottom line unless you axe a revenue stream without making the necessary adjustments to expenditure or efficiency. Money in is not money out. Sales do not equal profit. Revenues do not necessarily equate to profit. There is more than one factor at work and there are two sides to every ledger. That's simple economics and I can't believe I have to explain this to grown ups.

Edited May 26, 2023 by GCn20

[17to85]

Problem for government is that you can't ever cut enough programming to offset tax cuts so yes tax cuts are deficit spending. There is a cost associated with cutting taxes.

There's a conservative mentality called starve the beast. You cut taxes first to make programs unsustainable and then they die because you don't have the tax revenue to keep them going. It's bullshit. 

Conservatives need to stop pretending that cutting taxes is any different than spending on social programs. Same result. Higher deficit and higher debt. Trickle down economics doesn't work and that fact has been proven time and time and time again. You can not find one source citing it's effectiveness.

[blue_gold_84]

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics it must take to try and lecture others (strangers on a sports forum) about different viewpoints while presenting absolutely no evidence to substantiate them, whining about echo chambers, a lack of good faith arguments*, and moral high ground, after making the admission that you're simply participating in this thread to rile up others with incessant trolling.

The cognitive dissonance is bordering on complete detachment from reality. To say nothing of the feigned victimhood and lack of self-awareness.

* hilarious coming from someone who deliberately makes bad faith arguments ad nauseam

Perhaps there's some veracity to this:

13 hours ago, WildPath said:

I will stick by my conspiratorial hypothesis that you are an agent of Trudeau sent to engender sympathy for the Liberals from bad faith attacks.

10 hours ago, Noeller said:

It's always yelling and always so angry.... About everything. 

It's a tell of something deeper with online behaviour like that.

[GCn20]

18 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Problem for government is that you can't ever cut enough programming to offset tax cuts so yes tax cuts are deficit spending. There is a cost associated with cutting taxes.

There's a conservative mentality called starve the beast. You cut taxes first to make programs unsustainable and then they die because you don't have the tax revenue to keep them going. It's bullshit. 

Conservatives need to stop pretending that cutting taxes is any different than spending on social programs. Same result. Higher deficit and higher debt. Trickle down economics doesn't work and that fact has been proven time and time and time again. You can not find one source citing it's effectiveness.

You don't have to cut programming to offset tax cuts you can offset tax cuts by increasing revenues, higher GDP growth and through finding efficiency in program delivery. Also, tax cuts are not a straight dollar in dollar out variable as they have many positive effects on the economy that must be measured prior to declaring the amount lost. Deficit spending only happens when there are deficits. FULL STOP. You can have tax cuts without deficits. To say otherwise is absurd. As for a source that tax cuts are positive I will point you towards the papers of Milton Friedman the 1976 Nobel Prize winner in economics.

8 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics it must take to try and lecture others (strangers on a sports forum) about different viewpoints while presenting absolutely no evidence to substantiate them, whining about echo chambers, a lack of good faith arguments*, and moral high ground, after making the admission that you're simply participating in this thread to rile up others with incessant trolling.

The cognitive dissonance is bordering on complete detachment from reality. To say nothing of the feigned victimhood and lack of self-awareness.

* hilarious coming from someone who deliberately makes bad faith arguments ad nauseam

Perhaps there's some veracity to this:

It's a tell of something deeper with online behaviour like that.

Nothing but name calling again. Get a new gig. Attack the poster who disagrees with you...rinse and repeat. You don't even realize you are illustrating exactly what I'm talking about or do you think your little rant above shows a willingness to bring facts and open discussion to this thread. You come on here and try bully anyone who disagrees with your political viewpoint. I am not sure if you see it, but anyone who wants to go back and see your standard response to anything you don't agree with will quickly come to the same conclusion. You want to talk about a lack of self awareness....my god man. It's hilarious....and it's sad.

Edited May 26, 2023 by GCn20

[HardCoreBlue]

45 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

You don't have to cut programming to offset tax cuts you can offset tax cuts by increasing revenues, higher GDP growth and through finding efficiency in program delivery. Also, tax cuts are not a straight dollar in dollar out variable as they have many positive effects on the economy that must be measured prior to declaring the amount lost. Deficit spending only happens when there are deficits. FULL STOP. You can have tax cuts without deficits. To say otherwise is absurd. As for a source that tax cuts are positive I will point you towards the papers of Milton Friedman the 1976 Nobel Prize winner in economics.

Nothing but name calling again. Get a new gig. Attack the poster who disagrees with you...rinse and repeat. You don't even realize you are illustrating exactly what I'm talking about or do you think your little rant above shows a willingness to bring facts and open discussion to this thread. You come on here and try bully anyone who disagrees with your political viewpoint. I am not sure if you see it, but anyone who wants to go back and see your standard response to anything you don't agree with will quickly come to the same conclusion. You want to talk about a lack of self awareness....my god man. It's hilarious....and it's sad.

@Rich

Not trying to stir the pot. I mean that, I'm tired with all of this as well. The block function is a great thing. I'm sure some use it on me, please use that function if you don't want to here from me. Just highlighting something.

This is a perfect example of how you and I see the world differently.

Reading the many posts like the above embarrasses us and frustrates us but for very different reasons.

My observation is you will clump this post in with the other posts that are going back and forth with this poster as all the same crap, everyone's equally at fault, encourage all to look inwards and generalize what's going on without really dissecting the many things going on in the conversation. And you're right we should always look inwards and to some degree there are similarities here with us all.

But with respect, it's a lot more complicated and complex than you present it that has significant differences in levels of hypocrisies shown and the many different levels of what to tolerate and what can't be tolerated. It's a mess that needs to be untangled or we will never improve.

You may think not. That's okay. You choose to ignore. But its not okay to suggest it's all the same with equal amounts of crap going on and just get along. 

Unfortunately for ease it doesn't work that way. No sir.  

Counter away people. 🙂

 

 

[GCn20]

35 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

@Rich

Not trying to stir the pot. I mean that, I'm tired with all of this as well. The block function is a great thing. I'm sure some use it on me, please use that function if you don't want to here from me. Just highlighting something.

This is a perfect example of how you and I see the world differently.

Reading the many posts like the above embarrasses us and frustrates us but for very different reasons.

My observation is you will clump this post in with the other posts that are going back and forth with this poster as all the same crap, everyone's equally at fault, encourage all to look inwards and generalize what's going on without really dissecting the many things going on in the conversation. And you're right we should always look inwards and to some degree there are similarities here with us all.

But with respect, it's a lot more complicated and complex than you present it that has significant differences in levels of hypocrisies shown and the many different levels of what to tolerate and what can't be tolerated. It's a mess that needs to be untangled or we will never improve.

You may think not. That's okay. You choose to ignore. But its not okay to suggest it's all the same with equal amounts of crap going on and just get along. 

Unfortunately for ease it doesn't work that way. No sir.  

Counter away people. 🙂

 

 

The problem is that you guys seem to want to dictate what can be tolerated and what can be excused. You point to my post as hypocrisy, when I am simply defending myself from a poster that suggested that a native Canadian was feigning victimhood, lacked self awareness, and was detached from reality. I suppose that kind of hyperbole against another poster is tolerable? C'mon man. You are calling Rich out but you are ignoring what he is saying in the first place. I fully admit I am stirring the pot, however, I would hope that my approach is at least respectful to other posters even if the content is most disagreeable to your sensibilities. You can judge the content how you will, criticize it..call it trolling....whatever....but lines are crossed when posters are insulted or they are told they are cranky old men, or detached from reality. That's not a counter argument...that's a personal attack, and it's shameful behavior.

Edited May 26, 2023 by GCn20

[Rich]

3 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

@Rich

Not trying to stir the pot. I mean that, I'm tired with all of this as well. The block function is a great thing. I'm sure some use it on me, please use that function if you don't want to here from me. Just highlighting something.

This is a perfect example of how you and I see the world differently.

Reading the many posts like the above embarrasses us and frustrates us but for very different reasons.

My observation is you will clump this post in with the other posts that are going back and forth with this poster as all the same crap, everyone's equally at fault, encourage all to look inwards and generalize what's going on without really dissecting the many things going on in the conversation. And you're right we should always look inwards and to some degree there are similarities here with us all.

But with respect, it's a lot more complicated and complex than you present it that has significant differences in levels of hypocrisies shown and the many different levels of what to tolerate and what can't be tolerated. It's a mess that needs to be untangled or we will never improve.

You may think not. That's okay. You choose to ignore. But its not okay to suggest it's all the same with equal amounts of crap going on and just get along. 

Unfortunately for ease it doesn't work that way. No sir.  

Counter away people. 🙂

 

 

I don't block anyone.  As someone who needs to moderate the board, it isn't a luxury I have.  And even if I did block people, you aren't someone I would block.

You misunderstand my issues with how some people post here.

Criticizing and pointing out what is wrong with someone's post, is what a discussion should be about.

Doing so by calling people's names, slandering them, degenerating them, is not acceptable, under any circumstances.  You may disagree with that, you may think people are so horribly evil right now that they deserve whatever can be thrown at them, but that isn't acceptable on this board.   And if people want somewhere they can do that, they will have to go find somewhere else to do it.

I won't deny that I / we have not been consistent in letting the above behaviour go without stepping in.   The truth is I don't like moderating discussions.  I don't like editing posts, I don't like warning people, I don't like suspending or banning people.  I do at times get so fed up and frustrated with the state of things that I end up making a general post in anger like I did recently.  But things get to a tipping point and I'm not perfect either. In general, as moderators, we tend to err on the side of letting things slide.  The problem with that is things end up sliding further and further until it becomes a problem, and then a correction is needed.  We are probably in that correction state right now as people will come to see.

The alternative is always hard line moderating.  And I don't think anyone here really wants that to happen.  Well at least they don't want it to happen to them, only to other people.

I don't expect or want you to agree with everyone.  But if reading what someone else posts puts you (this is generic "you" people of the board, not HardCoreBlue specifically) over the edge so much that there is a repeating pattern where you can only respond in anger and name calling, or you think people as so evil that you are justified in how treating them badly, then ultimately you aren't welcome here and you will need to find somewhere else to post.  There ain't no shortage of places to go to behave like that on the internet.

At the end of the day, treat people civilly.  Make articulated arguments of why an opinion is wrong without name calling or making fun of people.  

To answer your earlier post, I do share your fear with where society is heading right now and opinions of certain groups of people.  But we are still a single country, and if we can so easily start to label a subsection of our fellow country people as crazy and simply not worthy and substandard human beings that whatever they say and do should just be dismissed outright, then the ultimate outcome is either a country that will be broken up / split / divided or that a country that stays as a single unit but one group will be no longer be treated as equals and humans.  And I can show you countless history examples of where that leads to.  I don't want either.   

I'm not saying I have the answers to this, because I don't.  I'm not perfect by any means, and not suggesting I have this figured out over you, but a quote I like to try and remember is this, A true test of character is not how you act on your best days but how you act on your most difficult days.

That doesn't mean being a push over, that doesn't mean accepting dangerous thoughts when you see it.  It means how you behave in what you do when you see it.

 

 

[HardCoreBlue]

20 minutes ago, Rich said:

I don't block anyone.  As someone who needs to moderate the board, it isn't a luxury I have.  And even if I did block people, you aren't someone I would block.

You misunderstand my issues with how some people post here.

Criticizing and pointing out what is wrong with someone's post, is what a discussion should be about.

Doing so by calling people's names, slandering them, degenerating them, is not acceptable, under any circumstances.  You may disagree with that, you may think people are so horribly evil right now that they deserve whatever can be thrown at them, but that isn't acceptable on this board.   And if people want somewhere they can do that, they will have to go find somewhere else to do it.

I won't deny that I / we have not been consistent in letting the above behaviour go without stepping in.   The truth is I don't like moderating discussions.  I don't like editing posts, I don't like warning people, I don't like suspending or banning people.  I do at times get so fed up and frustrated with the state of things that I end up making a general post in anger like I did recently.  But things get to a tipping point and I'm not perfect either. In general, as moderators, we tend to err on the side of letting things slide.  The problem with that is things end up sliding further and further until it becomes a problem, and then a correction is needed.  We are probably in that correction state right now as people will come to see.

The alternative is always hard line moderating.  And I don't think anyone here really wants that to happen.  Well at least they don't want it to happen to them, only to other people.

I don't expect or want you to agree with everyone.  But if reading what someone else posts puts you (this is generic "you" people of the board, not HardCoreBlue specifically) over the edge so much that there is a repeating pattern where you can only respond in anger and name calling, or you think people as so evil that you are justified in how treating them badly, then ultimately you aren't welcome here and you will need to find somewhere else to post.  There ain't no shortage of places to go to behave like that on the internet.

At the end of the day, treat people civilly.  Make articulated arguments of why an opinion is wrong without name calling or making fun of people.  

To answer your earlier post, I do share your fear with where society is heading right now and opinions of certain groups of people.  But we are still a single country, and if we can so easily start to label a subsection of our fellow country people as crazy and simply not worthy and substandard human beings that whatever they say and do should just be dismissed outright, then the ultimate outcome is either a country that will be broken up / split / divided or that a country that stays as a single unit but one group will be no longer be treated as equals and humans.  And I can show you countless history examples of where that leads to.  I don't want either.   

I'm not saying I have the answers to this, because I don't.  I'm not perfect by any means, and not suggesting I have this figured out over you, but a quote I like to try and remember is this, A true test of character is not how you act on your best days but how you act on your most difficult days.

That doesn't mean being a push over, that doesn't mean accepting dangerous thoughts when you see it.  It means how you behave in what you do when you see it.

 

 

Thanks for the response.

[17to85]

3 hours ago, GCn20 said:

You don't have to cut programming to offset tax cuts you can offset tax cuts by increasing revenues, higher GDP growth and through finding efficiency in program delivery. Also, tax cuts are not a straight dollar in dollar out variable as they have many positive effects on the economy that must be measured prior to declaring the amount lost. Deficit spending only happens when there are deficits. FULL STOP. You can have tax cuts without deficits. To say otherwise is absurd. As for a source that tax cuts are positive I will point you towards the papers of Milton Friedman the 1976 Nobel Prize winner in economics.

I know in the 70s and 80s they all believed that was the case,  it's why we saw conservative governments the world over go all in on supply side economics.... but here is the thing, we're 40ish years out from these policies, we can see what they have done and SURPRISE! No-one credible believes it works they way they say anymore. It sounds goodnso people believe it, the reality is that the tax savings don't get passed down in any way. They get vacuumed up to the top and stay there.