Canadian Politics

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

Who said anything about tax cuts for the rich? That again is the misconception. Tax cuts do not have to even include the rich. Would a reduction in taxes to middle and lower income families not do a lot of good? Again, I stress that a tax cut need not be deficit spending nor does it even have to include the upper echelons of the income levels. Saying that tax cuts only benefit the rich is patently false. That is only true if the cuts themselves are actually designed to favor them. Just as social programming does not necessarily make spending acceptable. It is only acceptable if the spending and programs are not wasteful and provide the appropriate value for their cost.

...and yes Nazis might be the exception to the rule...and child molesters.

it doesn't have to be that way....but that's just reality. It's not at all a misconception. It's absolutely the norm. Lower taxes for the rich/corporations. This is usually done now as a "You don't want them to leave do you?" ploy. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by Bigblue204

[17to85]

Yeah tax cuts disproportionately benefit the rich because the wealthy are already paying higher taxes. 

The "you don't want them to leave do you?" Is trickle down/supply side economics and it's proven to be ineffective. 

I would also argue that cutting taxes for lower and middle income types does less to keep money in their pockets than having well funded, well run social services does. Also important is well regulated private sector. The child care subsidy as an example does far more to keep money in my pocket than a pitiful sum of a tax break would.

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

There are definitely NDP and grit supporters that would qualify as extreme. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise. Each of the federal parties cast wide nets for support and in kind have some supporters from the extremes. I do not deny for one minute that CPC has attracted it's share of wingnuts. I don't believe for one second that the party has been completely hijacked by them though. That's just the posturing of the left to paint all on the right as extreme. I do not find it extreme for a person to be a Christian and follow Christian beliefs, it's not my cup of tea but it's not extreme. I do not find it extreme to want small government and the resumption of the oil industry. Just as I don't paint all Liberals as ANTIFA supporting wingnuts, or socialists. It would be comically inappropriate to suggest that. I think a big part of the problem is that the left and right extremes dominate the news cycle now while the average supporter is just too boring to talk about. If you were to ask people on the left they would say that the right has been hijacked by the extremes, well newsflash....the right feels the same way about the left. Neither is correct, though both sides will suggest they are and the media seems to have some perverse attraction to keeping this charade alive.

There is little evidence of left/centrist advocacy of violence much less incidence. Fascists, by definition, hold violence as an integral option if not mandatory.  I have been a socialist supporter for over 50 years and have never heard any calls for violence. By not calling out right-wing/authoritarian statements and policies as fascist, you legitimize their positions as optional social discourse. The media in the US did not identify Trump as the fascist, gynophobic, amoral monster he is and always has been and that propelled him to power and his attempted coup. 

[HardCoreBlue]

52 minutes ago, Tracker said:

There is little evidence of left/centrist advocacy of violence much less incidence. Fascists, by definition, hold violence as an integral option if not mandatory.  I have been a socialist supporter for over 50 years and have never heard any calls for violence. By not calling out right-wing/authoritarian statements and policies as fascist, you legitimize their positions as optional social discourse. The media in the US did not identify Trump as the fascist, gynophobic, amoral monster he is and always has been and that propelled him to power and his attempted coup. 

@Sard repeatedly asks to cite examples of extreme leftist violence and only gets I'm not even going to debate that.

We currently live in an environment where I can make allegations and respond in this fashion when called on it then play victim by shouting echo chamber mean and nasty lefties. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by HardCoreBlue
Cause my grammar continues to suck ass

[WildPath]

12 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I am here simply to present a different viewpoint to the echo chamber.

Yes! Please do this, just do it well. Use evidence to backup your beliefs and admit when evidence proves your ideas faulty. A diversity of perspectives is great, but not a diversity in value for truth and logic. I honestly question how anyone can support the CPC or modern conservative parties and I would like to get an answer to that. Throwing out opinion and then not backing it up unfortunately confirms my ideas that it can't be backed up.

Rejecting fact and legitimate research shows that your perspective lacks credibility. If you truly believe in your arguments, take the time to show your work. Countless times you've been called out and haven't followed through. Your disregard when others post facts that clearly refute what you are saying says something about how your perspective is developed.

[GCn20]

I don't need to show my work. This isn't some high school debate. I have my opinion you guys have yours. I'm happy with that. You guys don't like someone has a different opinion and you say you've shown your work? I haven't seen that in any meaningful way. You guys take snippets of my posts, spin them out of context and offer weak sauce proof as a rebuttal. I just went for a day defending well known and university taught economic theory from your guys total BS about it. I have a Masters degree in Economics and you guys are arguing with me that tax cuts are deficit spending? I dont need to prove anything to any of you when this is the level of debate im facing.Frankly I don't give 2 figs whether you guys agree with me or not. If you don't like what I say ignore it. IDGAF. I'm not here to convince you that my views are right or wrong. I am simply stating my perspective and unlike you guys I am perfectly fine if they turn out to be incorrect. I'm just not going to sit silently and let you guys demonize anyone on the right side of the political spectrum. It's horseshit.

[Sard]

16 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I don't need to show my work. This isn't some high school debate. I have my opinion you guys have yours. I'm happy with that. You guys don't like someone has a different opinion and you say you've shown your work? I haven't seen that in any meaningful way. You guys take snippets of my posts, spin them out of context and offer weak sauce proof as a rebuttal. I just went for a day defending well known and university taught economic theory from your guys total BS about it. I have a Masters degree in Economics and you guys are arguing with me that tax cuts are deficit spending? I dont need to prove anything to any of you when this is the level of debate im facing.Frankly I don't give 2 figs whether you guys agree with me or not. If you don't like what I say ignore it. IDGAF. I'm not here to convince you that my views are right or wrong. I am simply stating my perspective and unlike you guys I am perfectly fine if they turn out to be incorrect. I'm just not going to sit silently and let you guys demonize anyone on the right side of the political spectrum. It's horseshit.

Let's try this again... what is the extreme-left?

[17to85]

Tax cuts are as much deficit spending as spending on social programs are because both are argued that they have economic benefit and are worth the expense or loss of revenue. 

You can't simply apply blanket statements like tax cuts are not spending because they might possibly under the exact right circumstances be a net benefit. You can do that with any government spending. That's why you evaluate each item on its own based on its merit. 

And I know this, the theory of slashing taxes hasn't done anything other than widen the wealth gap and shrink the middle class. Anything that makes the middle class smaller is not good economic policy.

[Tracker]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Tax cuts are as much deficit spending as spending on social programs are because both are argued that they have economic benefit and are worth the expense or loss of revenue. 

You can't simply apply blanket statements like tax cuts are not spending because they might possibly under the exact right circumstances be a net benefit. You can do that with any government spending. That's why you evaluate each item on its own based on its merit. 

And I know this, the theory of slashing taxes hasn't done anything other than widen the wealth gap and shrink the middle class. Anything that makes the middle class smaller is not good economic policy.

Ronald Reagan was a mouthpiece for an economic theory that "a rising tide lifts all boats" AKA "trickle-down economics" wherein it is posited that if the rich get richer, everyone benefits. This has since been conclusively disproven in the US and Britain but it is still a concept that some cling to. This current economic crisis (yes, it is a crisis) shows that the wealthiest individuals and corporations have gotten obscenely wealthier and the other 80% have gotten poorer. The corporate shills cry that they provide jobs, so all is well, but the big corporations have been sending jobs offshore as quickly as they can and if consumers do not have the disposable funds to buy discretionary items, the big corporations will wither. A healthy middle class is essential for economic stability and social order.

[Fatty Liver]

10 hours ago, Tracker said:

Ronald Reagan was a mouthpiece for an economic theory that "a rising tide lifts all boats" AKA "trickle-down economics" wherein it is posited that if the rich get richer, everyone benefits. This has since been conclusively disproven in the US and Britain but it is still a concept that some cling to. This current economic crisis (yes, it is a crisis) shows that the wealthiest individuals and corporations have gotten obscenely wealthier and the other 80% have gotten poorer. The corporate shills cry that they provide jobs, so all is well, but the big corporations have been sending jobs offshore as quickly as they can and if consumers do not have the disposable funds to buy discretionary items, the big corporations will wither. A healthy middle class is essential for economic stability and social order.

Also add corporations off-shoring profits, so they avoid paying taxes on the enormous profits they earn.  It would make a huge difference if tax havens were eliminated and the capital remained in the countries that generated it.  Every 5 years or so the drumbeats of action are sounded, but they always fall silent without any measurable corrections taking place.  Damn right the oil and mining industries should be nationalized, as long as the vast majority of the profits generated from these resources is siphoned out of the country.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Fatty Liver

[Bigblue204]

18 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Also add corporations off-shoring profits, so they avoid paying taxes on the enormous profits they earn.  It would make a huge difference if tax havens were eliminated and the capital remained in the countries that generated it.  Every 5 years or so the drumbeats of action are sounded, but they always fall silent without any measurable corrections taking place.  Damn right the oil and mining industries should be nationalized, as long as the vast majority of the profits generated from these resources is siphoned out of the country.

Regardless of who is in government....this is exactly the type of thing I mean, when I say they're all the same.

There are ways to help our society recover. We all know this, politicians too. But it's always talk and no action. PC/LIB/NDP the problems always seem squeeze their way out of the grip of solutions. I wonder why ($$$$$$$$)...

[Tracker]

20 hours ago, Fatty Liver said:

Also add corporations off-shoring profits, so they avoid paying taxes on the enormous profits they earn.  It would make a huge difference if tax havens were eliminated and the capital remained in the countries that generated it.  Every 5 years or so the drumbeats of action are sounded, but they always fall silent without any measurable corrections taking place.  Damn right the oil and mining industries should be nationalized, as long as the vast majority of the profits generated from these resources is siphoned out of the country.

One of the most bizarre things I have ever heard of was when the Reagan administration used public funds to hold a massive seminar to advise American businesses on how to send jobs offshore.

[Noeller]

UCP wins majority in AB. One-time UCP candidate who compared LGBTQ+ students in schools to "human feces in a batch of cookies" wins in a landslide, with nearly 75% of the vote. 

Rural Alberta lives up to every stereotype you've ever heard.... 

[Brandon]

7 minutes ago, Noeller said:

UCP wins majority in AB. One-time UCP candidate who compared LGBTQ+ students in schools to "human feces in a batch of cookies" wins in a landslide, with nearly 75% of the vote. 

Rural Alberta lives up to every stereotype you've ever heard.... 

Lots of Cowboys !!! Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee haw! 

[rebusrankin]

Sad day for Alberta and Canada. Hope Manitoba is smarter in the fall.

[Rod Black]

Congrats to the UCP on the win.

[GCn20]

I'm pretty surprised at the outcome in AB. Wouldn't surprise me to see Notley get pushed out now. If there was ever an election ripe for the taking this was the one. Much like here in Manitoba, there is a massive disconnect between NDP and the rural constituencies. Just goes to show that despite having wing nuts in every party, many voters still vote for the party that best presents their platform. Rural AB wants the rigs up and running full tilt and obviously didn't trust the NDP to do that.

[17to85]

They'd be stupid to push notley out.  She is more popular than the party and it takes a lot of overcome 50 years of "well we just vote conservative " 

The idea that only outright wins are good enough is ludicrous.  That party has come a long way and to force her out probably sets it back a long way.

[17to85]

Seeing how it shook out in calgary it was close and a few of the bigger douchebags got tossed. The NDP made the campaign leader vs. Leader. Trou le for them are that conservatives care more about brand loyalty than who is actually leading. 

Smith immediately says blanket tax cuts and its all trudeaus fault in he acceptance speech so yay! Race to the bottom continues. 

[JCon]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Seeing how it shook out in calgary it was close and a few of the bigger douchebags got tossed. The NDP made the campaign leader vs. Leader. Trou le for them are that conservatives care more about brand loyalty than who is actually leading. 

Smith immediately says blanket tax cuts and its all trudeaus fault in he acceptance speech so yay! Race to the bottom continues. 

Good luck. Everything is the Feds fault or the previous NDP govt. Hate, anger, and lining their rich donors pockets. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by JCon

[17to85]

At least it will be entertaining watching her try and juggle the fact that her party is not united. Even with them still winning seats in calgary the margins all shrank considerably. They can't continue like that but the second you try and moderate yourselves the rural yahoo's will have the knives out.

[JCon]

Entertaining is one word for it. 

The wackos run that party and will continue to run that province. 

[Mark F]

 

she wants sell hospitals to business,

and people voted her?

This result is Not a good thing for public healthcare in the rest of Canada. 

Might be up to citizens, and the Courts to stand up for it. I am not confident in that route.

and I am not sure federal liberals actually care about it.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Mark F

[Wideleft]

5 minutes ago, Mark F said:

she wants sell hospitals to business,

and people voted her?

This result is Not a good thing for public healthcare in the rest of Canada. 

Might be up to citizens, and the Courts to stand up for it. I am not confident in that route.

and I am not sure federal liberals actually care about it.

Private healthcare is red meat for the anti-conservative vote.  The Fed Libs will definitely not ignore it.

[JCon]

18 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Private healthcare is red meat for the anti-conservative vote.  The Fed Libs will definitely not ignore it.

And they didn't. That's why health transfers were affected for AB, SK, and MB.