Canadian Politics

[WildPath]

I listened to this episode of Front Burner today and found it interesting - What's driving polarization in Canadian politics? | CBC Radio

I never really saw how the importance of getting a viral clip to engage donors is a driving force of polarization, but it made sense to me. Unfortunately this is leading to a lot of enraging supporters to share clips and solicit donations rather than working together.

I haven't yet read the report this was based on, but linked for those who are interested (it seems intriguing) - TheRiseOfPolarizationInCanada-PPF-AUG2023-EN-1.pdf (ppforum.ca)

@Mark F tagging because of polarization mentioned in US thread.

[JCon]

Just your typical Conservative corruption. 

Ontario government's Greenbelt land swap influenced by well-connected developers, AG finds
Developers could see an $8B increase to value of land now open for housing development, report finds

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-auditor-general-greenbelt-report-1.6930390

[Wideleft]

17 minutes ago, JCon said:

Just your typical Conservative corruption. 

Ontario government's Greenbelt land swap influenced by well-connected developers, AG finds
Developers could see an $8B increase to value of land now open for housing development, report finds

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-auditor-general-greenbelt-report-1.6930390

Totally unrelated:

Ontario Proud, a group credited with helping Doug Ford's Progressive Conservatives win the provincial election, received nearly $460,000 in corporate donations to fund its campaign efforts, new documents reveal. 

Development companies and construction firms contributed the bulk of Ontario Proud's election campaign funding, according to the group's newly submitted report to Elections Ontario.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-proud-election-advertising-spending-1.4941210

 

[HardCoreBlue]

18 minutes ago, JCon said:

Just your typical Conservative corruption. 

Ontario government's Greenbelt land swap influenced by well-connected developers, AG finds
Developers could see an $8B increase to value of land now open for housing development, report finds

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-auditor-general-greenbelt-report-1.6930390

The default out here is everyone's bad (neglecting the different impacts and levels of bad of course), what about them (usually never providing an equivalent example), etc etc.

Rinse, repeat.  

[JCon]

Just now, HardCoreBlue said:

The default out here is everyone's bad (neglecting the different impacts and levels of bad of course), what about them (usually never providing an equivalent example), etc etc.

Rinse, repeat.  

Trudeau wore brown-face 20 years ago, so it's the same. 

[HardCoreBlue]

2 minutes ago, JCon said:

Trudeau wore brown-face 20 years ago, so it's the same. 

AND he's obviously a dictator most corrupt person ever.

I've never been so limited with my freedoms, rights and privilege's as a Canadian as I have since he took power and if you can't see that I don't have time to tell you why and stop ganging up on me echo chamber libtards. 

[GCn20]

12 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

AND he's obviously a dictator most corrupt person ever.

I've never been so limited with my freedoms, rights and privilege's as a Canadian as I have since he took power and if you can't see that I don't have time to tell you why and stop ganging up on me echo chamber libtards. 

You are wasting your breath. These guys are not here to discuss, they are here to bully. Take a leave...the political threads on this forum are a waste of time.

[Wideleft]

1 hour ago, GCn20 said:

You are wasting your breath. These guys are not here to discuss, they are here to bully. Take a leave...the political threads on this forum are a waste of time.

[Goalie]

4 hours ago, GCn20 said:

You are wasting your breath. These guys are not here to discuss, they are here to bully. Take a leave...the political threads on this forum are a waste of time.

Not sure you did it on purpose or not bro but you just defined politics on all levels. It's all a waste of time indeed.  They aren't here to discuss, they are here to bully. Yup bang on. Politics 101 

[Goalie]

As a non liberal or conservative or Democrat for that matter.. it seems the problem is nobody can get along. It's not about issues,  it's about who shouts the loudest and has the most $$$$$$, that helps lots actually. 

People can't even get along in a political thread and expect old decrepit out of touch with reality millionaires to do it, lol 

Politics Is a waste of breath. It is a waste of time

 

 

[Wideleft]

15 hours ago, Goalie said:

As a non liberal or conservative or Democrat for that matter.. it seems the problem is nobody can get along. It's not about issues,  it's about who shouts the loudest and has the most $$$$$$, that helps lots actually. 

People can't even get along in a political thread and expect old decrepit out of touch with reality millionaires to do it, lol 

Politics Is a waste of breath. It is a waste of time

Weird how parties on the right continuously try to get fewer people to vote.  Voter apathy leads to Conservative wins.  

[GCn20]

15 hours ago, Goalie said:

Not sure you did it on purpose or not bro but you just defined politics on all levels. It's all a waste of time indeed.  They aren't here to discuss, they are here to bully. Yup bang on. Politics 101 

You get what I'm saying. That is all I will say because I am not getting sucked back into the vortex.

[HardCoreBlue]

16 hours ago, Goalie said:

Not sure you did it on purpose or not bro but you just defined politics on all levels. It's all a waste of time indeed.  They aren't here to discuss, they are here to bully. Yup bang on. Politics 101 

You and I have way different definitions of what bullying is.

[HardCoreBlue]

16 hours ago, Goalie said:

As a non liberal or conservative or Democrat for that matter.. it seems the problem is nobody can get along. It's not about issues,  it's about who shouts the loudest and has the most $$$$$$, that helps lots actually. 

People can't even get along in a political thread and expect old decrepit out of touch with reality millionaires to do it, lol 

Politics Is a waste of breath. It is a waste of time

 

 

We've come to the point that certain people from all walks of life are trying to to normalize wrapping half truths, lies, embellishments, completely made up stuff as issues and perspectives and expect this approach to be treated with civility and decorum.

I say something absurd or unsubstantiated or provide a false equivalency or half true or make stuff up to support my position, I'm appropriately called on it usually with some level of respect, I come back hot with hostility to respond to being called on it, I'm countered again to substantiate my claims this time with less respect and a lot more sarcasm, I then play the victim card that I'm just providing another side and this is nuts you people are all bully's and won't listen to this side so I won't waste my time with you.

Exhausting. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences from that speech. No one is limiting what you can or can not say but everyone, no matter who you are and what you believe in, need to pay the consequences, good, bad or indifferent, of the words that come out of their mouth. 

I myself over my lifetime have appropriately experienced that the hard way in the words I have spoken and written.

[GCn20]

18 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

We've come to the point that certain people from all walks of life are trying to to normalize wrapping half truths, lies, embellishments, completely made up stuff as issues and perspectives and expect this approach to be treated with civility and decorum.

I say something absurd or unsubstantiated or provide a false equivalency or half true or make stuff up to support my position, I'm appropriately called on it usually with some level of respect, I come back hot with hostility to respond to being called on it, I'm countered again to substantiate my claims this time with less respect and a lot more sarcasm, I then play the victim card that I'm just providing another side and this is nuts you people are all bully's and won't listen to this side so I won't waste my time with you.

Exhausting. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences from that speech. No one is limiting what you can or can not say but everyone, no matter who you are and what you believe in, need to pay the consequences, good, bad or indifferent, of the words that come out of their mouth. 

I myself over my lifetime have appropriately experienced that the hard way in the words I have spoken and written.

Absolutely disagree. When people are attacked for their opinion, morality, personal beliefs without civility or decorum then the attacker is every bit as much to blame for the problem as the person expressing a possibly misinformed opinion. It's complete garbage, and a crutch used by those who wish to bully others into their groupthink. There is never any need for name calling, intimidation, or insults is proper discussions. NEVER. I mean honestly how can anyone think that this is acceptable decorum in conversation?

Edited August 10, 2023 by GCn20

[Wideleft]

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Absolutely disagree. When people are attacked for their opinion, morality, personal beliefs without civility or decorum then the attacker is every bit as much to blame for the problem as the person expressing a possibly misinformed opinion. It's complete garbage, and a crutch used by those who wish to bully others into their groupthink. There is never any need for name calling, intimidation, or insults is proper discussions. NEVER. I mean honestly how much narcissism does a person have to have to think that this is acceptable decorum in conversation?

When a person defends their position/opinion by misrepresenting facts, they are fair game.  Small "l" liberals have historically been too polite in debate to the point that 50% of the population accept lies as fact and too many people believe all politicians are liars and crooks.  Anyone who wants to base their opinions or position on lies is going to get a response from me.  

Pardon me if I take my role as a citizen seriously.

 

[GCn20]

12 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

When a person defends their position/opinion by misrepresenting facts, they are fair game.  Small "l" liberals have historically been too polite in debate to the point that 50% of the population accept lies as fact and too many people believe all politicians are liars and crooks.  Anyone who wants to base their opinions or position on lies is going to get a response from me.  

Pardon me if I take my role as a citizen seriously.

 

Take it seriously. However, and I agree that misrepresentation deserves response, the manner of response is important to any discussion. Divisiveness builds when someone feels their opinion gives them the right to belittle another. If someone doesn't believe in abortion, or schools teaching gender diversity...that does not make them a bad person. 

[Wideleft]

8 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Take it seriously. However, and I agree that misrepresentation deserves response, the manner of response is important to any discussion. Divisiveness builds when someone feels their opinion gives them the right to belittle another. If someone doesn't believe in abortion, or schools teaching gender diversity...that does not make them a bad person. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Wideleft

[17to85]

16 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

If someone doesn't believe in abortion, or schools teaching gender diversity...that does not make them a bad person. 

Except it kind of does... I mean if you personally don't believe in abortion that's your own beliefs and all fine and dandy, but the moment you start pushing that on everyone else you're an *******. 

As for the opposition to gender diversity that's just straight up intolerance.

[GCn20]

50 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Except it kind of does... I mean if you personally don't believe in abortion that's your own beliefs and all fine and dandy, but the moment you start pushing that on everyone else you're an *******. 

As for the opposition to gender diversity that's just straight up intolerance.

Great...so if someone who pushes pro-abortion on someone who is not comfortable with it is an ******* too right? If not, that's quite the double standard.

Secondly nobody said opposition to gender diversity. What was stated was many parents, actually 41% of the population of Canada, according to a recent poll is against teaching this to elementary grade students with no option for parents to opt their child out. Should they not be allowed to express their concerns without the Prime Minister of Canada telling them they are being brainwashed by the far right? Many believe this is far too young to initiate teachings about human sexuality. I am one of them and I don't think that makes me intolerant to LGBTQ in any way.

Edited August 10, 2023 by GCn20

[GCn20]

At any rate, I will leave you guys with the last word on this. Even though, this discussion is actually a good one I believe with open and honest conversation taking place, I promised myself I would not get sucked back into political debate on any online forums. Cheers to you all. I will take my leave. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by GCn20

[Wideleft]

13 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Great...so if someone who pushes pro-abortion on someone who is not comfortable with it is an ******* too right? If not, that's quite the double standard.

Secondly nobody said opposition to gender diversity. What was stated was many parents, actually 41% of the population of Canada, according to a recent poll is against teaching this to elementary grade students with no option for parents to opt their child out. Should they not be allowed to express their concerns without the Prime Minister of Canada telling them they are being brainwashed by the far right? Many believe this is far too young to initiate teachings about human sexuality. I am one of them. Shout away.

Who is forcing women to get abortions?  No one.  That's why it's called pro-choice.  Forced birth advocates want to remove that choice from women.  That's just wrong.

Please read this handbook from the Canadian Teachers' Federation titled "Affirming Gender Diversity" and tell me what content bothers you.

https://www.ctf-fce.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/SVB5_AGD_EN_final_web-1.pdf

 

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

At any rate, I will leave you guys with the last word. Even though, this discussion is actually a good one I believe with open and honest conversation taking place, I promised myself I would not get sucked back into political debate on any online forums. Cheers to you all. I will bow out now.

With an election coming up on October 3?  I highly doubt it.

[GCn20]

8 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Who is forcing women to get abortions?  No one.  That's why it's called pro-choice.  Forced birth advocates want to remove that choice from women.  That's just wrong.

Please read this handbook from the Canadian Teachers' Federation titled "Affirming Gender Diversity" and tell me what content bothers you.

https://www.ctf-fce.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/SVB5_AGD_EN_final_web-1.pdf

 

I have no issues with abortion whatsoever, and am against anyone who would actively try to overturn it. I am against someone being told they don't have the right to that opinion though.

I have issues with grade 2 students being taught any sexuality related content. It's not the content, it's the age. At a higher grade level I am fully in favor of it.

8 minutes ago, Wideleft said:

Who is forcing women to get abortions?  No one.  That's why it's called pro-choice.  Forced birth advocates want to remove that choice from women.  That's just wrong.

Please read this handbook from the Canadian Teachers' Federation titled "Affirming Gender Diversity" and tell me what content bothers you.

https://www.ctf-fce.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/SVB5_AGD_EN_final_web-1.pdf

 

With an election coming up on October 3?  I highly doubt it.

Nah, I'm done...hopefully. The election is honestly not top of mind for me in the coming months. I want the PCs to lose this one.  I am not happy with their governing thus far. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by GCn20

[Wideleft]

11 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I have no issues with abortion whatsoever, and am against anyone who would actively try to overturn it. I am against someone being told they don't have the right to that opinion though.

I have issues with grade 2 students being taught any sexuality related content. It's not the content, it's the age. 

You have no idea what the content is, then.  I offered you an opportunity to learn.

[MOBomberFan]

43 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Great...so if someone who pushes pro-abortion on someone who is not comfortable with it is an ******* too right? If not, that's quite the double standard.

What exactly does pushing pro-abortion look like? Does it involve violently bloody billboards and mobs screaming at frightened teenagers as they walk into a clinic?

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I have issues with grade 2 students being taught any sexuality related content. It's not the content, it's the age. 

I'm a mid-eighties baby. We waited til Grade 5 to start talking about sex-ed and honestly I think it was a bit too late to get ahead of some problematic thinking... case in point, we were all calling eachother faggots every 10 minutes without even knowing what it meant. That was quite a while ago now. I'm sure kids could handle 'the talk' happening earlier than 5th grade. How early though I have no idea.

14 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I have no issues with abortion whatsoever, and am against anyone who would actively try to overturn it. I am against someone being told they don't have the right to that opinion though.

Literally every single Conservative MP voted YEA on bill C311 which would have the potential to bring criminal charges against abortion providers. The entire conservative party, as evidenced by their actions, support clamping down on abortion rights.

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/377?view=party