Canadian Politics

[JCon]

12 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Surprised the 215 FN kids buried in mass graves at a residential school in Kamloops hasn't triggered a discussion here. As much as federal, provincial & civic governments need to bear heavy responsibility for this, so does the Catholic Church who ran these schools. Sadistic nuns & pedo priests seem to be the story of these schools. These kids were sexually assaulted, beaten & lived in such cramped conditions that diseases like influenza & tuberculosis ran rampant which seems to be what killed most of the children as young as THREE. . What did these kids or their families do to deserve that?? How can things be made right after 100-150 years??? Just so sad. ******* politicians & ******* religion.

Only 215 bodies have been found so far. Local records suggest that approximately 1,000 (ONE ****ING THOUSAND) went missing from that "school" alone. 

 

[SpeedFlex27]

6 minutes ago, JCon said:

Only 215 bodies have been found so far. Local records suggest that approximately 1,000 (ONE ****ING THOUSAND) went missing from that "school" alone. 

 

They figure at least 800 are buried in Alberta as well. Probably more. The catholic Church has refused to apologize for residential schools. With the pandemic & these crazy pastors & now this. All churches of every religion should lose their tax free status. across canada. that would certainly get the Vatican's attention. They like money as much as the Mafia.

20 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

Last time I spoke on the subject here I was roundly told to STFU so why even bother.

I have no idea what you said.

[Noeller]

it's sickening, and if I'm being honest, I'm trying to find my voice as a white man in all of this. I knew absolutely NOTHING of residential schools growing up. Until Gord Downie started talking about it and Charlie Wenjack specifically, I'd never even heard the term. The fact that this was going on until 1996 is sickening to me. My objections with religion are well documented on here, but this is an even bigger black eye than already existed. I'm sick to my stomach the more I read/learn about all of this...

[Mark F]

26 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

Last time I spoke on the subject here I was roundly told to STFU so why even bother.

really?

why was this subject off limits?

[Mark F]

14 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I knew absolutely NOTHING of residential schools growing up.

when I was around ten, I lived near the one on the assiniboine, west wpg. near kenaston bridge. rode by it on my bike, it was closed in with wire fence,prison for children. I was just a child, and I was able to feel the misery emanating from that place. I did not know more than that.

it was genocide plain and simple.

not sure how Indians will,dig themselves out of the dung we dropped on them.

all the things in this world, me sitting here, it can get you down.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Mark F

[Tracker]

Sometimes it seems here is so much abuse of our fellow humans in Canada and elsewhere that one might be tempted to write off the human race as being so horrifyingly hostile and indifferent that God might be better off to hit the reset button. There are reasons for hope, though. The first step in change is "awareness", which is not always comfortable or even kind. You cannot heal what you will not feel, and we need to go through this in order to get to the next stages. This, and other such here in Canada have been swept under the rug too often and for too long. The point of pain is to draw attention that something is injured and needs attention.  Our church has sponsored Yazidi families for some years and it is gratifying to see how grateful they are and how well they are doing here in Winnipeg. A small act of kindness but a step towards redemption.

[SpeedFlex27]

Very few of us knew about these schools growing up. The public was kept in the dark. Those that did were silent & therefore complicit. This goes beyond politics as every party ever in power across this country be it federally or provincially have their hands dirty & the deaths are on their shoulders. I just feel so sad for those poor kids suffering alone & their families whose kids were ripped from them. Then not being allowed to bury their dead or not even knowing what happened to them. This is gut wrenching. Any of us who are parents know how horrible this must have been.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Surprised the 215 FN kids buried in mass graves at a residential school in Kamloops hasn't triggered a discussion here.

I'm playing devil's advocate on this one. Nothings been found yet! Just a radar scan.

It's what you get from growing up in the 'peg. It's there! It's there. Guess what? Removed decades ago. That's my Big 4 reference.

 

[blue_gold_84]

56 minutes ago, Noeller said:

it's sickening, and if I'm being honest, I'm trying to find my voice as a white man in all of this. I knew absolutely NOTHING of residential schools growing up. Until Gord Downie started talking about it and Charlie Wenjack specifically, I'd never even heard the term. The fact that this was going on until 1996 is sickening to me. My objections with religion are well documented on here, but this is an even bigger black eye than already existed. I'm sick to my stomach the more I read/learn about all of this...

It's honestly gut-wrenching to learn about what took place for so long and affected the lives of so many. We see the reverberations of that history to this very day, unspeakable trauma passed down from one generation to the next.

I learned a bit about residential schools as a kid but didn't really have the capacity to appreciate or understand the gravity of what it all was. And I only learned of it due to the fact that where I spent my summers growing up (Canyon Lake near Vermilion Bay, ON) there was a closed school nearby (McIntosh School - closed in 1969) and we would sometimes fish the shoreline near it where a stream poured into the lake. It always felt unsettling to see the old derelict buildings with fire damage and smashed windows, even as recently as last year when I was out there for some fall muskie fishing.

Having learned about the residential school system more in-depth since university, it's become a sad, shameful reminder of our nation's history (both past and present). We need to be better.

[SpeedFlex27]

12 minutes ago, FrostyWinnipeg said:

I'm playing devil's advocate on this one. Nothings been found yet! Just a radar scan.

It's what you get from growing up in the 'peg. It's there! It's there. Guess what? Removed decades ago. That's my Big 4 reference.

 

No comment.

[rebusrankin]

Education both on an individual level and on a societal level is a great first step. The news is just sicking though.

[WildPath]

Taught on a reserve for quite a few years. Always felt... conflicted at the very least... to have students standing up for the national anthem.

[MOBomberFan]

1 hour ago, Mark F said:

really?

why was this subject off limits?

 

1 hour ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I have no idea what you said.

To be clear, I mean the topic of Residential Schools in general, not this specific horror show.

Long story short, and trying to avoid putting words in anyone's mouth... in the BLM/Travis Rudolph thread (which I recommend everyone avoid like the plague) I, a privileged suburban white man, basically argued that socio-economic status matters and should be reflected in sentencing. This was in response to the suggestion that a crime is a crime, no matter who, what, or where, and that victims of racism hate or prejudice shouldn't be able to use any of the above as an excuse when sentenced. I said that the black and white world of right and wrong they live in does not exist, never has. I then suggested that they attend a Truth and Reconciliation dialogue to better understand why generational racism and open prejudice might have something to do with why a person might find themselves desperate enough to commit crimes. I was then informed that: 1) they were aboriginal 2)  they were a residential school survivor, and 3) that I looked like a ******* idiot for preaching from an ivory tower.

I'm gunshy to say anything to anyone at this point, you could say. Which is frustrating, because at these very same T&R dialogues you are urged to speak about it often and openly if you want to be an agent of change.

[17to85]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

My objections with religion are well documented on here, but this is an even bigger black eye than already existed. I'm sick to my stomach the more I read/learn about all of this...

Sadly I don't think you can pin this one on just religion. The government is just as guilty. Reality is that this was all about assimilation. 

[Tracker]

There will be many Canadians who will choose to bury their heads in the sand rather than acknowledge what has happened and is still happening, at least to a degree. As a child, I intervened when the town bully was beating a Metis boy, who I saw as a friend. I got beaten as well, but my friend Rennie got away as far as I know. My parents in Portage La Prairie were friends and neighbours with a Canadian-Japanese man (Mr. Uhori) who had a strawberry farm. He spoke of his family being uprooted and moved into the BC interior from the Surrey  area. The provincial government confiscated the properties of all the displaced Nisei  and auctioned them off- most wound up owned by BC cabinet ministers. There were court cases to regain the lost properties but most Nisei just gave up and moved elsewhere. My extended family includes Metis, Asian and Caribbean people. I have a grandson who is part Asian, and looks Asian. He will be going to school this fall and I fear what he will be met with. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Tracker

[SpeedFlex27]

42 minutes ago, MOBomberFan said:

 

To be clear, I mean the topic of Residential Schools in general, not this specific horror show.

Long story short, and trying to avoid putting words in anyone's mouth... in the BLM/Travis Rudolph thread (which I recommend everyone avoid like the plague) I, a privileged suburban white man, basically argued that socio-economic status matters and should be reflected in sentencing. This was in response to the suggestion that a crime is a crime, no matter who, what, or where, and that victims of racism hate or prejudice shouldn't be able to use any of the above as an excuse when sentenced. I said that the black and white world of right and wrong they live in does not exist, never has. I then suggested that they attend a Truth and Reconciliation dialogue to better understand why generational racism and open prejudice might have something to do with why a person might find themselves desperate enough to commit crimes. I was then informed that: 1) they were aboriginal 2)  they were a residential school survivor, and 3) that I looked like a ******* idiot for preaching from an ivory tower.

I'm gunshy to say anything to anyone at this point, you could say. Which is frustrating, because at these very same T&R dialogues you are urged to speak about it often and openly if you want to be an agent of change.

Man, I would have to review that thread as it's hard to really understand what you're saying, what angle you're coming from & what others were saying. as far as Residential Schols go, there is racism & privelige woven through all of it. What Bishop Grandin said about getting the Indian out of kids so they'd be ashamed of their heritage & would be Indian only by blood is about as racist as it gets & there is no forgiveness in that. I don't think this quote can even be explained away as times were different back then compared to now which is how I usually feel. I simply can't justify that here.

"We instil in them a pronounced distate of native life so that they will be humiliated when reminded of their origin. When they graduate from our institutions, the children have lost everything Native except their blood." Bishop Vital grandin 1875 explaining his reasoning for Residential Schools.  

The loving religion of the Catholic Church.

[iHeart]

that reminds me, doesn't Winnipeg still have a street named Bishop Grandin

 

[WildPath]

Yet we still have apologists like Dorothy Dobbie "putting things in perspective"

Like this gem "Many of the abuses visited upon Indigenous kids were routine for all students in the private schools here in Canada and abroad. Nor were families gentle: “spare the rod and spoil the child” was the rule of thumb well into the second half of the 20th century."

"This is not to mitigate the damage that was done to our Indigenous youth. It is to ease the burden of hurt and injustice that Indigenous people feel by letting them know that they were not alone."

"It seems to me, that we were much better at respecting each other in the past than we are now."

In other words, if you're indigenous, don't worry. Everyone had the same treatment and you need to realize that.

https://whatsupwinnipeg.ca/reconciliation-must-begin-with-mutual-understanding/

This is someone who has been the president of the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce, currently runs a media company and was an elected M.P. from Winnipeg South. Bet you can guess which party she belongs to.

P.S. I cannot find a date on the article, but I'm pretty certain it was before these remains were discovered. I guess I can pretend there's hope that she must have a more nuanced view now.

[Bigblue204]

There's more. There's thousands more. Likely most will never be found. I'll be blown away if a government ever does anything substantial in bringing justice. 

I truly want to say more but the anger just takes over. I was lucky enough to learn from survivors earlier in my life. Their stories should be heard whenever the line "you're trying to erase history" is said.

There's more.

[Bigblue204]

2006...thats when this was released...15 years ago.

 

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/unrepentant-kevin-annett-canadas-genocide/

[Bigblue204]

One more on this topic before I go for the night.. last week...maybe 2...it was discovered that indigenous girls under 10yrs old were having IUDs inserted, without giving consent (legally they cant).

This isn't recent history, this wasn't 1996. This IS 2021.

[17to85]

The residential school clusterfuck is a big reason for a lot of the problems on reserves now too. You rip families apart and it's no wonder the kids don't know how to be normal and that gets passed down the line. It really is shameful. 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

There's more. There's thousands more. Likely most will never be found. I'll be blown away if a government ever does anything substantial in bringing justice. 

I truly want to say more but the anger just takes over. I was lucky enough to learn from survivors earlier in my life. Their stories should be heard whenever the line "you're trying to erase history" is said.

There's more.

What would be proper response? How do you make reparations for families ripped apart & kids that died a century ago? I don't know what the solution should be.

[Wideleft]

34 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

What would be proper response? How do you make reparations for families ripped apart & kids that died a century ago? I don't know what the solution should be.

94 recommendations right here:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/truth-and-reconciliation-94-calls-to-action-1.3362258

 

[Mark H.]

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

One more on this topic before I go for the night.. last week...maybe 2...it was discovered that indigenous girls under 10yrs old were having IUDs inserted, without giving consent (legally they cant).

This isn't recent history, this wasn't 1996. This IS 2021.

Good God, that's eugenics, in 2021.