Canadian Politics

[TrueBlue4ever]

1 minute ago, Mark H. said:

Quebec went orange in 2011, so there is that. I think Bloc strongholds wouldn't necessarily go red or blue, if the Bloc were dissolved. 

But that year when the Bloc collapsed it was still a majority government. In every minority since 1980 it has been the Bloc votes and not the NDP that have made the difference. 

[Mark H.]

9 minutes ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

But that year when the Bloc collapsed it was still a majority government. In every minority since 1980 it has been the Bloc votes and not the NDP that have made the difference. 

Either party holds enough seats to give the Libs a comfortable majority. 

[the watcher]

14 hours ago, Noeller said:

it'd be really interesting to see what Canada would look like if we had a 2 party system like the States.... Progressives vs Conservatives. 

Please no. Canada's willingness to create and support new parties plays an important part in our political makeup. The NDP born of a disgruntled, suffering  farmers party has made massive contributions to our social systems including Universal healthcare. Even today the PPC may have bled off votes from the Consevatives but it also bled off a bunch of further right supporters, ideals and candidates. The threat of NDP support forces  the Liberals to adopt policies from the left.  Two parties ? No thank you.

Edited September 23, 2021 by the watcher

[GCn20]

21 hours ago, JCon said:

CPC would do well to ride out the storm right now and keep O'Toole. If they can clean up their messaging on the guns and just pick a darn side, that would help. Just keep the Libs carbon pricing status quo. They've been hurt dramatically by their Provincial cousins who seem incapable of leading. 

Be fiscally conservative and socially progressive. Capture those that want to vote Liberal but don't like them heading to the left. 

 

Yep you are exactly right. Pick a lane close to the middle and hammer Trudeau on his financial handling while taking away the boogeyman the Liberals will paint them as. The CPC need to start campaigning now. Shadow budgets, alternate policy. Give the voters a choice. RIght now the CPC is perceived as the party the Liberals paint them as because they haven't effectively given voters any reason to believe otherwise. That is a communication failure. As opposition you need to invent the hot button issue for the next election, not allow the government to do that.

1 minute ago, the watcher said:

Please no. Canada's willingness to create and support new parties plays an important part in our political makeup. The NDP born of a disgruntled, suffering  farmers party has made massive contributions to our social systems including Universal healthcare. Even today the PPC may have bled off votes from the Consevatives but it also bled off a bunch of further right supporters. The threat of NDP support forces  the Liberals to adopt policies from the left.  Two parties ? No thank you.

I agree. The political spectrum is just too broad and polarized for two parties. That's why US politics is the **** show it is right now. Neither party can control their extremes and there is no avenue to get rid of them.

[GCn20]

12 hours ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

But that year when the Bloc collapsed it was still a majority government. In every minority since 1980 it has been the Bloc votes and not the NDP that have made the difference. 

It is very difficult to attain a majority with the BQ in existence as their support actually translates to seats. The NDP are more of a widespread support without the seat count. The BQ blocks just about every party's path to a majority and the NDP blocks the Liberals mainly. However, if the NDP were to merge with the Liberals it would likely create a bleed off of centrist support for the Liberals to the CPC so the impact of that merger would not be as great as many think. There are a ton of Liberals near the centre of the spectrum that hate the NDP more than they hate the CPC.

[17to85]

26 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

The CPC need to start campaigning now.

Did you listen to Otooles speech on election night? He clearly was still campaigning then. 

The problem that the CPC has is that the crazy town people appear to be in charge of the party. Until they address that part of the party they will have a hard time forming government. 

[Mark F]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Did you listen to Otooles speech on election night? He clearly was still campaigning then. 

The problem that the CPC has is that the crazy town people appear to be in charge of the party. Until they address that part of the party they will have a hard time forming government. 

I,found a couple of articles, (cant find them now) about the takeover of the party by christian religious fundamentalists, the goal being of course to make their religious beliefs law, in Canada.

gave details of their voting power and positions held in the con/alliance party apparatus.

completely anti democracy.

very disturbing. 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Mark F

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

You know what would be awesome... if the Liberal Government actually followed through with their promise of electoral reform... now where the **** is that at now? My biggest gripe right now with the Liberal party.

[GCn20]

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Did you listen to Otooles speech on election night? He clearly was still campaigning then. 

The problem that the CPC has is that the crazy town people appear to be in charge of the party. Until they address that part of the party they will have a hard time forming government. 

Not true at all. That's what the CBC would like you to believe though.

4 hours ago, Mark F said:

I,found a couple of articles, (cant find them now) about the takeover of the party by christian religious fundamentalists, the goal being of course to make their religious beliefs law, in Canada.

gave details of their voting power and positions held in the con/alliance party apparatus.

completely anti democracy.

very disturbing. 

 

Pure BS, Pinko propaganda. Man you are full of it on this. Typical left wing boogeyman smearing.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by GCn20

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

Not true at all. That's what the CBC would like you to believe though.

Oh please, that's such a typical right wing hack narrative. Oh I disagree,  you must be a dirty liberal who gets all their news from the biased cbc!!!11!! 

I don't take any of the news programs all that seriously, I am fully capable of looking at the facts and drawing my own conclusions. Fact is the moderate option for leadership of the cpc was soundly rejected when they ignored Peter McKay.  O'Toole won by pandering to that right wing base. He needed the votes for the crazy town candidates to win the leadership. I believe otoole to be more moderate, but he got into bed with the right to be leader therefore the far right are the ones actually in control of that party.

 

[GCn20]

I found a couple articles (can't find them now) about the takeover of the Liberal and NDP parties by communist fundamentalists. The goal, of course, to make their political beliefs law in Canada.

Gave details of their voting power and positions held in the Liberal/NDP party apparatus.

Completely anti democracy.

very disturbing.

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Oh please, that's such a typical right wing hack narrative. Oh I disagree,  you must be a dirty liberal who gets all their news from the biased cbc!!!11!! 

I don't take any of the news programs all that seriously, I am fully capable of looking at the facts and drawing my own conclusions. Fact is the moderate option for leadership of the cpc was soundly rejected when they ignored Peter McKay.  O'Toole won by pandering to that right wing base. He needed the votes for the crazy town candidates to win the leadership. I believe otoole to be more moderate, but he got into bed with the right to be leader therefore the far right are the ones actually in control of that party.

 

How exactly did he pander to the far right? Hate to break it to you but if you are referring to the gun registry that is more a function of rural vs suburban than left/right. There are many, many centrist CPC supporters that oppose Trudeau's gun legislation. There are many rural Canadians on the left that oppose it as well.  The only places that really favor this are the GTA and Quebec. Is the CPC powerbase currently concentrated in Western Canada....you bet...does that equate to being far right....not even. That's just stupid. He pandered to the West to get his leadership not the far right. Don't mix up the two.

Edited September 23, 2021 by GCn20

[17to85]

8 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

 

How exactly did he pander to the far right? Hate to break it to you but if you are referring to the gun registry that is more a function of rural vs suburban than left/right. There are many, many centrist CPC supporters that oppose Trudeau's gun legislation. There are many rural Canadians on the left that oppose it as well.  The only places that really favor this are the GTA and Quebec.

You don't remember all the talk during their leadership race about how he was courting them while being more of a centrist candidate? 

Here is the problem, you are a partisan who refuses to look at things objectively. I grew up in a rural community, I live in Alberta, my voting choices lean more right than not however the current conservative parties are out to lunch because of how far right they have swung. I can not support these parties until they clean out the trash because the trash is busy trying to drag everyone further right.  It's what they want and attitudes like yours are how they do it. 

[TrueBlue4ever]

45 minutes ago, GCn20 said:

I found a couple articles (can't find them now) about the takeover of the Liberal and NDP parties by communist fundamentalists. The goal, of course, to make their political beliefs law in Canada.

Gave details of their voting power and positions held in the Liberal/NDP party apparatus.

Completely anti democracy.

very disturbing.

How exactly did he pander to the far right? Hate to break it to you but if you are referring to the gun registry that is more a function of rural vs suburban than left/right. There are many, many centrist CPC supporters that oppose Trudeau's gun legislation. There are many rural Canadians on the left that oppose it as well.  The only places that really favor this are the GTA and Quebec. Is the CPC powerbase currently concentrated in Western Canada....you bet...does that equate to being far right....not even. That's just stupid. He pandered to the West to get his leadership not the far right. Don't mix up the two.

Many would argue that “rural” is the right and “suburban” is the left. They would also argue the West is the far right. 

[Noeller]

Re: fringes of parties....

I heard a really interesting bit from Naheed Nenshi on CTV the other day, and he was talking about the PPC being a fringe party not only for the far right, but also the far left. Basically, things are like a circle, and the far edges of the left and right will eventually meet. What that meant for the PPC, was weird anti-vax hippies on the left who believe in "alternative medicine" and are completely against traditional science.....those people on the far left, eventually met up with the crazy far-right conspiracy theory types over their mutual hatred of the middle. 

[JCon]

Just now, Noeller said:

Re: fringes of parties....

I heard a really interesting bit from Naheed Nenshi on CTV the other day, and he was talking about the PPC being a fringe party not only for the far right, but also the far left. Basically, things are like a circle, and the far edges of the left and right will eventually meet. What that meant for the PPC, was weird anti-vax hippies on the left who believe in "alternative medicine" and are completely against traditional science.....those people on the far left, eventually met up with the crazy far-right conspiracy theory types over their mutual hatred of the middle. 

The PPC owes much of it's "success" to disenfranchised Greens who need to yell at someone. Fringers are just out there trying to attach themselves to some anti-establishment movement. 

[the watcher]

5 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Re: fringes of parties....

I heard a really interesting bit from Naheed Nenshi on CTV the other day, and he was talking about the PPC being a fringe party not only for the far right, but also the far left. Basically, things are like a circle, and the far edges of the left and right will eventually meet. What that meant for the PPC, was weird anti-vax hippies on the left who believe in "alternative medicine" and are completely against traditional science.....those people on the far left, eventually met up with the crazy far-right conspiracy theory types over their mutual hatred of the middle. 

This is true. A  "real " libertarian should be pro women's choice ( and rights ), pro LGBQT rights, and support many other  issues that progressives support. Unfortunately  most Libertarians support only the individual rights that they are effected by and the rest don't count.So in reality most self proclaimed Libertarians are just far right. I use to tell my son in-laws if you walk far enough left you might meet the right. Doesn't always work out though 

[17to85]

It's because left and right is insufficient. The there I like the graphs with a 2nd axis for authoritarian vs. Libertarian as well. I mean plenty of examples of authoritarian socialists out there.

[Mark F]

communism.

that is actually what some people worry about.

good lord.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Mark F

[Tracker]

2 hours ago, GCn20 said:

I found a couple articles (can't find them now) about the takeover of the Liberal and NDP parties by communist fundamentalists. The goal, of course, to make their political beliefs law in Canada.

Gave details of their voting power and positions held in the Liberal/NDP party apparatus.

Completely anti democracy.

very disturbing.

How exactly did he pander to the far right? Hate to break it to you but if you are referring to the gun registry that is more a function of rural vs suburban than left/right. There are many, many centrist CPC supporters that oppose Trudeau's gun legislation. There are many rural Canadians on the left that oppose it as well.  The only places that really favor this are the GTA and Quebec. Is the CPC powerbase currently concentrated in Western Canada....you bet...does that equate to being far right....not even. That's just stupid. He pandered to the West to get his leadership not the far right. Don't mix up the two.

If you believe that Most of Alberta and some of Saskatchewan are not far-right in their political beliefs and voting, you have never lived there or paid attention to    the rhetoric out of their representatives. The vast majority of Canadians support tougher gun controls, but a few years ago, the MP from Saskatoon was advocating students to take sidearms to schools. Right-wing or what?

[Mark F]

"Why do people feel the tax system is unfair? 70% or more feel that large corporations and wealthy Canadians do not pay their fair share in taxes while 40% feel that lower- and middle-income Canadians pay more than their fair share. Most Canadians feel that small businesses pay their fair share in taxes.

5. Now is the time to tackle wealth inequality: A clear majority (82%) believe now is the time to tackle wealth and income inequality by increasing taxes on wealthy Canadians and large, profitable corporations. And we find broad and deep support for several ideas. "

 

lots of,pollong info. across all,parties.

 

https://abacusdata.ca/tax-fairness-canada-poll/

[WildPath]

4 hours ago, the watcher said:

This is true. A  "real " libertarian should be pro women's choice ( and rights ), pro LGBQT rights, and support many other  issues that progressives support. Unfortunately  most Libertarians support only the individual rights that they are effected by and the rest don't count.So in reality most self proclaimed Libertarians are just far right. I use to tell my son in-laws if you walk far enough left you might meet the right. Doesn't always work out though 

That's one of many things about the anti-vax protests I despise. The "My body, my choice" thing surely only applies to their rights and I would wager that most of the people in the crowd don't support a woman's right to choose and don't support gay marriage. There are likely a few true libertarians in the crowd, but most would not support the slogan "my body, my choice" when applied to others. Such disgusting hypocrisy that shows their life of privilege and lack of understanding/compassion for others.

[17to85]

58 minutes ago, Mark F said:

"Why do people feel the tax system is unfair? 70% or more feel that large corporations and wealthy Canadians do not pay their fair share in taxes while 40% feel that lower- and middle-income Canadians pay more than their fair share. Most Canadians feel that small businesses pay their fair share in taxes.

5. Now is the time to tackle wealth inequality: A clear majority (82%) believe now is the time to tackle wealth and income inequality by increasing taxes on wealthy Canadians and large, profitable corporations. And we find broad and deep support for several ideas. "

 

lots of,pollong info. across all,parties.

 

https://abacusdata.ca/tax-fairness-canada-poll/

Better than taxation would be finding a way to make employers compensate their employees fairly. In lieu of that taxation and government support for the working class is needed.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

Twitter restricted Bernier's account for 12 hours after he urged followers to 'play dirty' with journalists

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/maxime-bernier-twitter-threatening-tweets-1.6186915

CTV reporter received messages saying she should be sexually assaulted and killed for questioning Bernier

Edited September 24, 2021 by FrostyWinnipeg

[Mark F]

12 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Better than taxation would be finding a way to make employers compensate their employees fairly. In lieu of that taxation and government support for the working class is needed.

do both.

 

if wage earners could do what corporations do....

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Mark F

[GCn20]

On 2021-09-23 at 2:42 PM, 17to85 said:

You don't remember all the talk during their leadership race about how he was courting them while being more of a centrist candidate? 

Here is the problem, you are a partisan who refuses to look at things objectively. I grew up in a rural community, I live in Alberta, my voting choices lean more right than not however the current conservative parties are out to lunch because of how far right they have swung. I can not support these parties until they clean out the trash because the trash is busy trying to drag everyone further right.  It's what they want and attitudes like yours are how they do it. 

You don't know jackshit about my political leanings. I am a small c conservative and you are living under Kenney so I can understand your thoughts on the matter but you are the one looking through an Alberta bubble and not seeing that outside of Alberta and parts of SSK that the vast majority of CPC support is very moderately right. 

On 2021-09-23 at 7:47 PM, WildPath said:

That's one of many things about the anti-vax protests I despise. The "My body, my choice" thing surely only applies to their rights and I would wager that most of the people in the crowd don't support a woman's right to choose and don't support gay marriage. There are likely a few true libertarians in the crowd, but most would not support the slogan "my body, my choice" when applied to others. Such disgusting hypocrisy that shows their life of privilege and lack of understanding/compassion for others.

I don't like the anti-vax protests anymore than the next guy but you are making some wild assumptions about people with this statement. I know several anti-vaxxers and argue with them constantly, and their thoughts on gay marriage and abortion are not consistent with what you are suggesting.

Edited September 27, 2021 by GCn20